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og12,sc-3中查遍全站3个问题存在分歧,热烈讨论中~期待更多CDers参与讨论,欢迎大家补充~!!

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11#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-4-22 00:44:26 | 只看该作者
我又看了一下Manhattan,有这种说法:
强调句是符合语法规则的,甚至当你需要强调某些一些方面的时候,就是需要使用强调语句的。可是GMAT不喜欢在正确答案中设置强调语句。
该规则只是 prefer ,而不是rule. 要慎重使用,当其他选项都错误的时候,这些选项有可能成为正确选项。
12#
发表于 2012-4-22 06:53:18 | 只看该作者
弱弱地问,sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思,再插个begin是不是意思就重复了,所以wordy?

另外,是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的(纯属臆测)?也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面,修饰study的话就放到study后面?
13#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-4-22 08:06:05 | 只看该作者
弱弱地问,sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思,再插个begin是不是意思就重复了,所以wordy?

另外,是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的(纯属臆测)?也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面,修饰study的话就放到study后面?
-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)



谢谢解答。看了baby姐姐的解释,改正如下:
关于语意重复那一点,我觉得 be to do 有打算做某事,即相当于will do,我打算开始做某事,还是不存在重复和wordy的问题。
至于结构不能被拆开我觉得也不是这样吧。。。
看baby姐姐的解释吧,比较详细~
14#
发表于 2012-4-22 10:08:02 | 只看该作者
大家讨论得精彩啊~~~

这题我个人觉得,关注OG前面那一段,这题就是考verb tense. 原句表达的意思,是转折,"although". 这个句子类似(不是太完美的句子,偶随口编的权且抛砖):
Although thousands of American blacks had suffered from injustice in the mid 20th century, it was not until 1963 that they formally began fighting for their liberty under the leadership of  Martin Lurther King, Jr.

这题只要你掌握了:
1. verb tense: should be simple past
2. Not until ... that
就搞定了。考的就是理解了句子意思之后,怎么把逻辑关系(主要是事件在时间轴上的定位)用语言表达出来。
这样就直接选定E了....
btw: 我个人觉得,OG的解释第一段比后面选项分析部分精华很多倍!

----
这题我个人觉得还有个地方值得注意: "begin doing sth" VS "begin to do sth"
大家不妨回忆一下中学学的,"stop doing sth" VS "stop to do sth",比如
stop smoking
stop to smoke
读一下,体会一下smoking和to smoke在意思上是怎么体现出区别的?

那这里换成begin。我来举个例子吧,假设这是数学课堂——
Teacher:
(1) Today we are going to learn permutation and combination.
(2) Ready? Let's go.
(3) First, let's look at a simple problem: How many different outcomes are there to pick one cheerleader from our class?
....

以上(1)-(3)的编号仅仅是为了我接下来表述方便哈。
那我们可以说:
Let's begin studying permutation and combination.
Let's begin to look at a simple problem.

From (1), our ultimate goal (for today's class, which is defined as topic scope) is to "study permutation and combination".
Therefore, we say we begin STUDYING permutation and combination.

From (2) and (3), we jump start toward our goal, which is to "study permutation and combination".
We start with a simple problem - this is what we are going to do!
Therefore, we say we begin TO LOOK at a simple problem.

More on this concept, please check out Ron's lecture on Feb. 16, 2012
http://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm

那么根据以上,这里肯定要用begin studying,不能用begin to study
所以在我看来
"C选项,og 的解释是The sequence of infinitives (to begin seriously
to study)
is awkward and wordy.
"
这里根本不能用to study。

我自己一直的理解是两个不定式GMAC是不喜欢同时连用的
This is just a priority, not a hard-set rule. (You can find a bunch of exceptions, some of these discussed in my diary. )
The ultimate goal, in GMAT SC, is to express correctly and effectively. This is merely a general guideline for stylish considerations.
The most serious problem is, as I mentioned above, you cannot use infinitive "to study" in this case. This is a logical/meaning issue.


D选项,og的解释是:Not almost until is a nonsensical sequence of
modifiers.

这是对的,我觉得这是native speakers比咱具有的优势,they can hear the awkwardness.
所以我想GMAT在逐步取消这一类的题目,而强调逻辑思维导向,就是这个原因,因为他们主张公平。
btw. 我自己是觉得"not until almost 1900"顺口,为什么呢我也说不出来。多读英语就有感觉了。但是again, GMAT更注重逻辑。
假如我不知道"not until"的用法,我通过逻辑上,找到了两个split,一个是simple past,另一个是began studying,那我也能选到正确答案E。

E选项,特别不情愿选E选项,我记得Manhattan上说过GMAT不喜欢强调句
握爪握爪,我也觉得强调句很不爽。正规学术英语很少用这个句型。只是说,"It was not until X that ..."这句型在英语里很常见罢了。
毕竟这句子没进入OG13哈,可以自行揣度GMAC的导向。

C还有另一个问题哦:
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study
把倒装还原成正常语序吧,就能看出来了:
In 1990, Scholars and critics were to begin to study ....
(以上为了简化,把adverb都去掉, "almost 1990"就假设是1990哈)
这句话逻辑上有问题哦,发现了吗?

如果我今天(April 21, 2012)说:
I am to apply to MBA.
相当于: I will apply to MBA (some time in the near future). 但问题是,谁也不知道我到底什么时候apply. 我并没有说。
仅仅是在今天(April 21, 2012)我告诉你们我对于未来的plan.

那咱回头看原句:
In 1990, Scholars and critics were to begin to study ....
这句子并没有说when did they begin to study!

而原句的意思是(忽略almost):In 1990, they began to study ....

所以,就算是咱能接受C那样的倒装,那也该写成这样:
Not until almost 1990 did scholars and critics begin ...

至于"begin to study"的问题,先前讨论了。
3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages.



















(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study









(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying









(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study









(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and critics began to seriously study









(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying





























CD上关于这道题的所有解释都查了,没有定论,Manhattan之类的国外网站也查了,没有权威人士解答(现在开国外网站特别慢!!各种刷新!!要不要这要啊!!%>_<%)百家争鸣,特别疑惑









A 选项的错误理解了,until almost 1900所处的位置既可以修饰前面的动词也可以修饰后面的。









B时态错误









C选项,og 的解释是The sequence of infinitives (to begin seriously
to study)
is awkward and wordy.









我自己一直的理解是两个不定式GMAC是不喜欢同时连用的,可是查帖时,有CDer解释说不定式之间不可以加入其他元素,也就是这里的问题是出在中间加了seriously,表困惑,NN解答。Q1



















D选项,og的解释是:Not almost until is a nonsensical sequence of
modifiers.










现有两种解释版本:not until 不可以分来,即almost的插入有问题;not 既可以修饰前也可以修饰后。









NN拍砖Q2



















E选项,特别不情愿选E选项,我记得Manhattan上说过GMAT不喜欢强调句









如果C选项的错误都改正,是不是用倒装更好点???Q3



















3个问题,呼唤baby姐姐,superbat,各种NN,各位CDers!!!!!极度困惑!!!!








-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/21 17:02:02)




15#
发表于 2012-4-22 10:17:27 | 只看该作者
“baby姐曾经说过语法中的四点值得注意:平行,主谓一致,修饰位置,代词”
其实是前3点,不管是Ron还是v51的nn都强调这3点  (详见我的日记首页)
更准确的是,把代词中的agreement算作广义的agreement(不是狭义的s-v agreement)。且修饰语首先要make sense(就是什么修饰什么,逻辑意思不能风马牛不相及),其次才是如何placement。

Agreement
Parallelism
Modifier

btw.
实在不想再强调这三项的重要性。昨天随意翻贴时看到有篇似乎是OG12语法点总结,附件总结我没看,就看到文中说类似这样的话“就不总结大家都知道的基础知识了,诸如主谓一致和平行什么的”
(听这话感觉像典型的中国教育,老师为了考倒学生,拼命出边边角角的题,而学生拼命搜集边角题目来做,有时候还不愿和同学分享,想独占那些信息和资源....所以就以为GMAT SC重要的就是那些边角知识,所以就去头悬梁锥刺股般地记忆各种nitty-gritties,而忽略对GMAT SC最核心的把握。)

主谓一致、平行,真这么小儿科么?
我不觉得。那么多的难题都是这少数几个core concepts!!!!
(我自己有过教训,曾经觉得主谓一致最简单,当时Manhattan那张我没看,只看了网友的缩略版,还认为都是废话一通。实际呢?后来做SC,错的题目最多的就是s-v agreement. 然后回过去看原书,才发现自己当初跳过这部分是多么错误!)
Ron说,不要以为自己基础好,不看Manhattan SC的基础部分,直接看advanced。相反,你时间不够,宁愿不看advanced也要吃透基础部分。
这个观点,国外很多verbal高分nn也如是说。


我试着说说吧,抛砖引玉~

第一个问题:to begin seriously to study

这个的问题的确出现在seriously这里,因为。。。。。真相只有一个~~~(ps:有点柯南的意思吧亲)

下面正经一点~~~

这里的seriously是adv,是副词,它是起修饰作用的,所以,就存在了修饰歧义~~
1,你可以用seriously修饰前面,即:严肃的去开始学习~ 注意先后感觉,是先“严肃的去开始”,然后是“去学习”。

2,你也可以用seriously修饰后面,即:开始严肃的学习~ 还是注意先后感觉,是先“开始”,然后是“严肃的去学习”。

这应该是两个完全不同的两种感觉,也就是说,seriously在这里,既可以向前修饰,也可以向后修饰。
单纯从语法上讲也是歧义,因为副词可以修饰不定式~


第二个问题: not almost until 1900(D)
                            until almost 1900(A)
对于这个,小菜特意给annie标准地、对称地写了出来,你可以对照着看~
你会发现,单词的顺序不一样,这就意味着。。。。。。。某个单词的修饰位置变了~!!!
这也就是说,意思变了~~~那么时谁变了呢?
真相只有一个。。。那就是almost~~~~~
它是个副词,by the way:记住,副词的修饰远超过形容词,因为它还能修饰形容词~~
那,现在呢,在D中,almost修饰的是until ,即:not almost 直到1900年~
                    在A中,almost修饰了1900,这是名词,即:直到差不多1900年~
从中文咱们可以看出,D中是到了准确的1900年,而A中则是“差不多1900年吧”这个感觉~

所以显而易见,问题出在了修饰位置上~~
baby姐曾经说过语法中的四点值得注意:平行,主谓一致,修饰位置,代词(ps:baby姐使用英文说的,小菜翻译过来的,有不到位的地方,可以参见baby姐的原帖)~~

那,小菜水平有限,不知道annie现在能不能理解呢~~ O(∩_∩)O(KL脸)
-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/4/21 20:28:53)




16#
发表于 2012-4-22 10:46:14 | 只看该作者
我觉得bob说得对~~~

"seriously begin to study", in which "seriously" modifies "begin"
"begin to seriously study", in which "seriously" modifies "study"

总感觉begin seriously to study不太顺....不过也说不上来。我还是喜欢keep it simple and stupid,就说我觉得这里根本就该是begin studying而不是begin to study,那么至于seriously怎么放,是non-issue.
17#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-4-22 11:10:30 | 只看该作者
大家讨论得精彩啊~~~

这题我个人觉得,关注OG前面那一段,这题就是考verb tense. 原句表达的意思,是转折,"although". 这个句子类似(不是太完美的句子,偶随口编的权且抛砖):
Although thousands of American blacks had suffered from injustice in the mid 20th century, it was not until 1963 that they formally began fighting for their liberty under the leadership of  Martin Lurther King, Jr.

这题只要你掌握了:
1. verb tense: should be simple past
2. Not until ... that
就搞定了。考的就是理解了句子意思之后,怎么把逻辑关系(主要是事件在时间轴上的定位)用语言表达出来。
这样就直接选定E了....
btw: 我个人觉得,OG的解释第一段比后面选项分析部分精华很多倍!

----
这题我个人觉得还有个地方值得注意: "begin doing sth" VS "begin to do sth"
大家不妨回忆一下中学学的,"stop doing sth" VS "stop to do sth",比如
stop smoking
stop to smoke
读一下,体会一下smoking和to smoke在意思上是怎么体现出区别的?

那这里换成begin。我来举个例子吧,假设这是数学课堂——
Teacher:
(1) Today we are going to learn permutation and combination.
(2) Ready? Let's go.
(3) First, let's look at a simple problem: How many different outcomes there are to pick one cheerleader from our class?
....

以上(1)-(3)的编号仅仅是为了我接下来表述方便哈。
那我们可以说:
Let's begin studying permutation and combination.
Let's begin to look at a simple problem.

From (1), our ultimate goal (for today's class, which is defined as topic scope) is to "study permutation and combination".
Therefore, we say we begin STUDYING permutation and combination.

From (2) and (3), we jump start toward our goal, which is to "study permutation and combination".
We start with a simple problem - this is what we are going to do!
Therefore, we say we beginTO LOOK at a simple problem.

More on this concept, please check out Ron's lecture on Feb. 16, 2012
http://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm

那么根据以上,这里肯定要用begin studying,不能用begin to study
所以在我看来
"C选项,og 的解释是The sequence of infinitives (to begin seriously
to study)
is awkward and wordy.
"
这里根本不能用to study。

我自己一直的理解是两个不定式GMAC是不喜欢同时连用的
This is just a priority, not a hard-set rule. (You can find a bunch of exceptions, some of these discussed in my diary. )
The ultimate goal, in GMAT SC, is to express correctly and effectively. This is merely a general guideline for stylish considerations.
The most serious problem is, as I mentioned above, you cannot use infinitive "to study" in this case. This is a logical/meaning issue.


D选项,og的解释是:Not almost until is a nonsensical sequence of
modifiers.

这是对的,我觉得这是native speakers比咱具有的优势,they can hear the awkwardness.
所以我想GMAT在逐步取消这一类的题目,而强调逻辑思维导向,就是这个原因,因为他们主张公平。
btw. 我自己是觉得"not until almost 1900"顺口,为什么呢我也说不出来。多读英语就有感觉了。但是again, GMAT更注重逻辑。
假如我不知道"not until"的用法,我通过逻辑上,找到了两个split,一个是simple past,另一个是began studying,那我也能选到正确答案E。

E选项,特别不情愿选E选项,我记得Manhattan上说过GMAT不喜欢强调句
握爪握爪,我也觉得强调句很不爽。正规学术英语很少用这个句型。只是说,"It was not until X that ..."这句型在英语里很常见罢了。
毕竟这句子没进入OG13哈,可以自行揣度GMAC的导向。

C还有另一个问题哦:
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study
把倒装还原成正常语序吧,就能看出来了:
In 1990, Scholars and critics were to begin to study ....
(以上为了简化,把adverb都去掉, "almost 1990"就假设是1990哈)
这句话逻辑上有问题哦,发现了吗?

如果我今天(April 21, 2012)说:
I am to apply to MBA.
相当于: I will apply to MBA (some time in the near future). 但问题是,谁也不知道我到底什么时候apply. 我并没有说。
仅仅是在今天(April 21, 2012)我告诉你们我对于未来的plan.

那咱回头看原句:
In 1990, Scholars and critics were to begin to study ....
这句子并没有说when did they begin to study!

而原句的意思是(忽略almost):In 1990, they began to study ....

所以,就算是咱能接受C那样的倒装,那也该写成这样:
Not until almost 1990 did scholars and critics begin ...

至于"begin to study"的问题,先前讨论了。
3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages.



















(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study









(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying









(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study









(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and critics began to seriously study









(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying





























CD上关于这道题的所有解释都查了,没有定论,Manhattan之类的国外网站也查了,没有权威人士解答(现在开国外网站特别慢!!各种刷新!!要不要这要啊!!%>_<%)百家争鸣,特别疑惑









A 选项的错误理解了,until almost 1900所处的位置既可以修饰前面的动词也可以修饰后面的。









B时态错误









C选项,og 的解释是The sequence of infinitives (to begin seriously
to study)
is awkward and wordy.









我自己一直的理解是两个不定式GMAC是不喜欢同时连用的,可是查帖时,有CDer解释说不定式之间不可以加入其他元素,也就是这里的问题是出在中间加了seriously,表困惑,NN解答。Q1



















D选项,og的解释是:Not almost until is a nonsensical sequence of
modifiers.










现有两种解释版本:not until 不可以分来,即almost的插入有问题;not 既可以修饰前也可以修饰后。









NN拍砖Q2



















E选项,特别不情愿选E选项,我记得Manhattan上说过GMAT不喜欢强调句









如果C选项的错误都改正,是不是用倒装更好点???Q3



















3个问题,呼唤baby姐姐,superbat,各种NN,各位CDers!!!!!极度困惑!!!!








-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/21 17:02:02)




-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/22 10:08:02)


看了baby姐姐解答,顿时清晰许多~

首先是关于begin doing begin to do 的区别,由于是高中学的,觉得GMAT不会考,所以总是不正视这个问题,看来细节还是要注意的!!



还有关于两个不定式不能连用,这个想法是错的,就像强调句一样,只是a priority,而不是 rule!!



关于C选项的倒装句,只是看了一眼它是倒装句,觉得哎呦,不错哦~今天baby姐姐细细一分析,才发现这个倒装句在表意上就和原句不一样!!(个人认为表意错误是很严重的错误,一般情况下要尊重原题想要表达的意思,除非没得选说明自己还不够严谨!!



关于主谓一致,最近做题发现自己一那道题不先看基础的,就开始找什么代词指代错不错,修饰错不错,其实在某些情况下,这些并不是硬伤,想要准确快速的缩小范围,其实最基础的才是最直接可靠和快速的,每次分析题目分析的很“高端纠结“时,暮然回首才发现主谓一致和代词指代单复数一致就能排除好几个选项时,就凌乱了orz!!要改进!!!



最后再次感谢 baby姐姐详细而精辟的解答~~~~baby姐姐,无处不在哈~~


18#
发表于 2012-4-22 13:06:02 | 只看该作者
Annie你说的真好,我很赞同~~

补充一点,我先前举高中的那个"stop smoking" VS "stop to smoke"的例子,其实也是想make it simple. 因为这例子咱大家都知道。

印象中,高中英语是主张rote memorization. 各种介词搭配啊,各种动词后面跟infinitives还是v-ing (或者prep + v-ing)啊.....于是乎,咱中国学生普遍的学习方法,要么就是特勤奋记忆力也特好,把那些所谓语法点都背下来;要么就是广泛阅读,培养非常好的语感,全凭耳朵听,看是否sounds good。

然而,GMAT不同。GMAT既不主张死记硬背,也不主张全凭耳朵。也就是说,既不注重考"hard-set rules",也不追求"sounds good",而是追求——"makes sense"!这个"makes sense",按GMAT的标准是:makes grammatical and logical sense.

GMAT rewards logical thinking!!
因此会有些难题,错误选项sounds perfect but does not make sense,正确选项sounds weird but makes perfect sense.

当我们试着去思考,"to do", doing (乃至于in doing, by doing, for doing) 分别表达什么样的逻辑意思的时候,就可以举一反三、触雷旁通。
甭管前面是stop, begin,还是Ron上课讲的plan ("my plan for making money is to sell my clothes.")
19#
发表于 2012-4-22 13:09:52 | 只看该作者
对了, annie,我建议标题改一下,不要有“This thread is closed"的意思。
你明白了,挺好的。不过我也期待斑斑以及别的同学的补充和探讨。

我自己还在复习中,经常当我回去看之前发的贴子时,我发现我当时的理解还不完善或者不够深度/高度。
或者说,某一天我发现一道新的题目,跟过去讨论过的某题目有联系,能加深我对过去讨论的问题的理解,我也会补充到当时的贴子里。

所以, open to discussion
20#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-4-22 13:36:24 | 只看该作者
对了, annie,我建议标题改一下,不要有“This thread is closed"的意思。
你明白了,挺好的。不过我也期待斑斑以及别的同学的补充和探讨。

我自己还在复习中,经常当我回去看之前发的贴子时,我发现我当时的理解还不完善或者不够深度/高度。
或者说,某一天我发现一道新的题目,跟过去讨论过的某题目有联系,能加深我对过去讨论的问题的理解,我也会补充到当时的贴子里。

所以, open to discussion
-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/22 13:09:52)



好的~~我这就去改~~baby姐姐考虑周到~~~
"GMAT rewards logical thinking!!
因此会有些难题,错误选项sounds perfect but does not make sense,正确选项sounds weird but makes perfect sense.”
受用~!!!!!
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