关于名词修饰问题-which&that(已解决)

双色鹿

曼哈顿中说名词修饰语有两种，essential和non-essential。
essential修饰语和名词之间没有逗号，一般用that引导或用介词+which引导
non-essential修饰语和名词之间有逗号，用which引导。后面有一道题

原句：Regina returned the dress to the store, which was torn at one of the seams.

解析：Which was ... the seams: INCORRECT. This modifier is misplaced. It seems to describe store, the adjacent noun; however, the modifier should modify dress. Thus, we must move the modifier next to dress. Since the modifier is relatively short, we can get away with simply inserting it and setting it off with commas.

改正：Correction: Regina returned the dress, which was torn at one of the seams, to the store.



我的问题：

这个句子里面，which was torn at one of the seams应该是一个essential修饰语，为什么可以用逗号加which来引导呢？解释里的这句话大概说明了我的这个问题，但是我没有看懂：“Since the modifier is relatively short, we can get away with simply inserting it and setting it off with commas.”


恳请各位兄弟姐妹帮忙解答~

mrj1104

你为什么觉得应该是限制性定从呢？

双色鹿

to mrj1104:
曼哈顿中讲说
名词的修饰语有本质的essential和非本质non-essential的区别
essential：The mansion PAINTED RED is owned by the lees. 永远伴随着修饰（问what is owned by Lee?的时候，要回答mansion painted red，特指那一个）
non-essential：This mansion, RECENTLYPAINTED RED, is owned by the lees. 完全可以省略(问what is owned by Lee?的时候，回答mansion就可以了)
这道题里面，我觉得如果要问R送回了什么，应该答：撕破的裙子，而不是随便一条裙子

双色鹿

很疑惑呀，本来以为自己好不容易理解了essential和non-essential的区别了，这个是怎么回事呢？来看过这个帖子的同志们都发表一下言论呗，咱们可以讨论嘛~~~~~

双色鹿

是因为我这个问题太简单么？我觉得是essential的，会不会大家认为是non-essential的？还是做了个类似插入的成分呢？

双色鹿

双色鹿

up

babybearmm

这个句子里面，which was torn at one of the seams应该是一个essential修饰语，为什么可以用逗号加which来引导呢？
Nope... This modifier "which was torn at one of the seams" is non-essential.

She returned the dress, which was torn.
Here "which was torn" is a non-essential modifier. If the sentence were "She returned the dress.", we (as readers) would still be able to identify the particular dress to which the author referred.

She returned the dress that was torn.
Here "that was torn" is an essential modifier: we do not know which dress the author is talking about, unless the author specifies by the essential noun modifier "that was torn".

However, in this question, the issue is not essential vs. non-essential modifier. The issue is the placement of noun modifier.
但是我没有看懂：“Since the modifier is relatively short, we can get away with simply inserting it and setting it off with commas.”
Since the modifier ("which was torn at one of the seams" ) is short, we can simply insert it (as 插入语) and set it off with a pair of commas.

曼哈顿中说名词修饰语有两种，essential和non-essential。
essential修饰语和名词之间没有逗号，一般用that引导或用介词+which引导
non-essential修饰语和名词之间有逗号，用which引导。后面有一道题

原句：Regina returned the dress to the store, which was torn at one of the seams.

解析：Which was ... the seams: INCORRECT. This modifier is misplaced. It seems to describe store, the adjacent noun; however, the modifier should modify dress. Thus, we must move the modifier next to dress. Since the modifier is relatively short, we can get away with simply inserting it and setting it off with commas.

改正：Correction: Regina returned the dress, which was torn at one of the seams, to the store.



我的问题：

这个句子里面，which was torn at one of the seams应该是一个essential修饰语，为什么可以用逗号加which来引导呢？解释里的这句话大概说明了我的这个问题，但是我没有看懂：“Since the modifier is relatively short, we can get away with simply inserting it and setting it off with commas.”


恳请各位兄弟姐妹帮忙解答~

-- by 会员 双色鹿 (2012/3/27 21:30:21)

babybearmm

to mrj1104:
曼哈顿中讲说
名词的修饰语有本质的essential和非本质non-essential的区别
essential：The mansion PAINTED RED is owned by the lees. 永远伴随着修饰（问what is owned by Lee?的时候，要回答mansion painted red，特指那一个）
non-essential：This mansion, RECENTLYPAINTED RED, is owned by the lees. 完全可以省略(问what is owned by Lee?的时候，回答mansion就可以了)
这道题里面，我觉得如果要问R送回了什么，应该答：撕破的裙子，而不是随便一条裙子

-- by 会员 双色鹿 (2012/3/27 21:43:34)

notice the article in "the dress"?
not "a dress"
If you are saying "the dress", sometimes your reader already knows which dress you are talking about. In this case, you are just adding more information, which is unnecessary for your reader to identify the particular dress. Hence in this case you are using "non-essential modifier".

If we have the following houses marked by number and color:
1 red
2 white
3 red
4 yellow
5 red
6 white
...

In each of the following cases, which house is referred to?
the third house, which is red
the third house that is red

双色鹿

哇好开心baby姐姐回答我这个问题~~
懂姐姐的意思了，那两道题，“the third house, which is red”应该指3号红色房子，因为后面which修饰我可以直接不看，就是第三号；“the third house that is red”应该是5号红色房子，因为后面“that is red”表达的是红色房子里面的第三个~

这道题我犯了语法里面一个很基本的错误，就是没有“维持原意”，我多想了，我想会不会这个人从店里买了好多条裙子，其中有一条破了。尤其曼哈顿在这里本来就是让改错，所以我就强行把自己的想法加了进去。事实上，曼哈顿给的例句中就已经清晰的表现出来特指的那一条裙子了。现在终于明白为什么“原句中that不能随便换成which，which也不能随便换成that了”，每一条总结出来的语法点都得真正思考过才能记住，才能会用~~
谢谢姐姐~！抱抱