2008Prep Q181 twice 同位语，请教大牛~~

半阙

“According to surveys by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, about 20 percent ofyoung adults used cocaine in 1979, doubling those reported in the 1977 survey.
(A) doubling those reported in the 1977 survey
(B) to double the number the 1977 survey reported
(C) twice those the 1977 survey reported
(D) twice as much as those reported in the 1977 survey
(E) twice the number reported in the 1977 survey

OA：E。其中twice跳跃used cocaine修饰20 percent of young adults.”


这是Q181题后面的注解，我就不明白了，同位语就近修饰即使可以跳跃一般不是只能跳跃修饰语么？这儿怎么连谓语都跳过了？求NN指教

12604698

笑完了~

我觉得哈~
（1）manhattan语法跳跃修饰讲的里面有一点是跳跃修饰避免头重脚轻。 比如 svo，s有个长的定语从句或者同位，vo很短~~ 定语从句放后面。

（2）这里可以把前面的svo那个看做一个整体。后面同位的其实是前面那个整体。按照逻辑读起来，也会感twice读起来比较顺。 语法题考核的其实是逻辑意思，死的语法点考查的越来越少了，也会有好多不太符合语法知识的用法，但是在特定的场合下符合逻辑意思，满足简洁，清晰。


笑完了~~

半阙

笑完了~

我觉得哈~
（1）manhattan语法跳跃修饰讲的里面有一点是跳跃修饰避免头重脚轻。 比如 svo，s有个长的定语从句或者同位，vo很短~~ 定语从句放后面。

（2）这里可以把前面的svo那个看做一个整体。后面同位的其实是前面那个整体。按照逻辑读起来，也会感twice读起来比较顺。 语法题考核的其实是逻辑意思，死的语法点考查的越来越少了，也会有好多不太符合语法知识的用法，但是在特定的场合下符合逻辑意思，满足简洁，清晰。


笑完了~~

-- by 会员 12604698 (2012/1/25 1:25:05)

我也觉得读起来挺顺，然后越分析越玄忽~~看来逻辑含义是王道这点是不错的，以后一定多注意~~谢谢啦~
还有，你笑得真开心~~

12604698

对呀~放前面头重脚轻啦~这种情况一定要跳的。~

半阙

在manhattan上看到的一道题，跟这一处知识点是一样的，附上作参考~~
In California today, Hispanics under the age of eighteen account for more than 43%, compared with a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
A.……
B.Of the Californians under the age of eighteen, today more than 43% of them are Hispanic, compared with a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
C.Today, more than 43% of Californians under the age of eighteen are Hispanic, compared with about 35% decade ago.
D.Today, compared to a decade ago, Californians who are Hispanics under the age of eighteen account for more than 43%, whereas it was about 35%.
E. Today, Hispanics under the age of eighteen in California account for more than 43%, unlike a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
答案：C
问：Compared” follows “Hispanic” immediately, does it mean “compared” modify “Hispanic”?



答：apparently, "compared with"/"compared to" can be used to modify the statistic in the preceding clause, even if that statistic doesn't come right before the comma. this is a lesson that you can draw by yourself from looking at this problem, simply by noting what appears in the correct answer.

这里只说了C选项，要看其他分析的http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post21654.html#21654


回到原来的题目中来，也就是说twice本来就不是用来修饰n.的，就是用来修饰numerical concept的，即使离修饰对象很远~~应该可以这么理解的吧~~

babybearmm

这题我对prep的解说保留意见.......
说我的理解谨供参考

(E) twice the number reported in the 1977 survey
独立主格的基本结构 noun + noun modifier    （其中noun可以用pronoun替换）
衍生： with + noun + noun modifier
        some of + noun + noun modifier     其中some of可以换成each of, all of, most of.....
        .....
其实这个"twice"形式上和前面那个"some of"对等，可以这么理解。

你摘录的prep笔记上说“其中twice跳跃used cocaine修饰20 percent of young adults.””
我不认同，这里twice要说修饰，就是修饰后面的 "the number reported ..."
所以还是回到我刚才说的，"the number reported ..." 是独立主格的基本结构，前面加个twice，就跟加个"some of"道理一样，修饰后面的核心noun。

另外，我一直觉得咱很多人走入了一个误区——过分强调独立主格的“修饰”对象
独立主格本身并不是通常意义的modifier，不存在特定的修饰对象（例如一个noun）！独立主格就是对主句somehow起到补充说明解释的作用就行，至于somehow到什么程度、联系有多紧密、到底怎么说明解释的，We don't care!

His head held high, Owen walked out of the store.
这里可以理解成补充说明owen走出小店的状态，可谁要是说"his head held high"是修饰 walked这个动作，我坚决反对。"with his head held high" 这样的prep phrase才能作为modifier，单说"his head held high"根本就不能作为modifier。

Scientists reported that SVO, a finding that ...
这里独立主格结构"a finding that ...."就是补充说明前面的SVO——也就是归结为一个词的"finding"。谁要跟我说"a finding that ..."是修饰前面的SVO我就跟谁急！
就好比你说：“苹果——一种水果，有利于健康。”苹果是“一种水果”，可谁能说“一种水果”修饰苹果？
你可以说：“作为一种水果的苹果有利于健康。”   这里“作为一种水果的” 修饰“苹果”，这就对了。

真要说modifier，v-ing形式也好，participle也好，都有很严格的限制，比如逻辑主语、时态、逻辑含义等等。而独立主格没那么多严格的要求，somehow就行了。

“According to surveys by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, about 20 percent ofyoung adults used cocaine in 1979, doubling those reported in the 1977 survey.
(A) doubling those reported in the 1977 survey
(B) to double the number the 1977 survey reported
(C) twice those the 1977 survey reported
(D) twice as much as those reported in the 1977 survey
(E) twice the number reported in the 1977 survey

OA：E。其中twice跳跃used cocaine修饰20 percent of young adults.”


这是Q181题后面的注解，我就不明白了，同位语就近修饰即使可以跳跃一般不是只能跳跃修饰语么？这儿怎么连谓语都跳过了？求NN指教

-- by 会员 半阙 (2012/1/24 23:35:12)

12604698

开始的时候我也没把twice + n 理解成同位，之前我以为是状语，不存在跳跃与否的问题。后来看到语法笔记，又问了度娘。
http://wenku.baidu.com/view/8dad862ee2bd960590c67740.html

她说twice + n 中twice是限定词，他们整体是同位。 这里twice不是副词。。
这样看和manhattan的例子也不一样了。

而且如果真是同位的话，也可以跳跃谓语的。也就是我一直在说的那个头重脚轻的问题。这个manhattan语法上那个例子。


你真跑去manhattan找题啦？。。。。厉害

babybearmm

我说错了，Absolute phrase是一种modifier，但是是特殊的modifier.

A few GMAT sentences use a sophisticated modifier called an Absolute Phrase. Absolute
phrases are composed of a noun plus a noun modifler. These phrases do not have to modify
what they touch; rather, they modify the main clause in some way.

嗯，就理解成somehow补充解释那句话，而不是特定地修饰某个成分（比如某个noun）

Scientists reported that SVO, a finding that ...
这里独立主格结构"a finding that ...."就是补充说明前面的SVO——也就是归结为一个词的"finding"。谁要跟我说"a finding that ..."是修饰前面的SVO我就跟谁急！
就好比你说：“苹果——一种水果，有利于健康。”苹果是“一种水果”，可谁能说“一种水果”修饰苹果？
你可以说：“作为一种水果的苹果有利于健康。”   这里“作为一种水果的” 修饰“苹果”，这就对了。

真要说modifier，v-ing形式也好，participle也好，都有很严格的限制，比如逻辑主语、时态、逻辑含义等等。而独立主格没那么多严格的要求，somehow就行了。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/25 11:55:44)

babybearmm

我觉得你问得很好啊，这个理解也有道理~
我都想把这个问题提给Ron让他下次study hall讲讲了。

在manhattan上看到的一道题，跟这一处知识点是一样的，附上作参考~~
In California today, Hispanics under the age of eighteen account for more than 43%, compared with a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
A.……
B.Of the Californians under the age of eighteen, today more than 43% of them are Hispanic, compared with a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
C.Today, more than 43% of Californians under the age of eighteen are Hispanic, compared with about 35% decade ago.
D.Today, compared to a decade ago, Californians who are Hispanics under the age of eighteen account for more than 43%, whereas it was about 35%.
E. Today, Hispanics under the age of eighteen in California account for more than 43%, unlike a decade ago, when it was about 35%.
答案：C
问：Compared” follows “Hispanic” immediately, does it mean “compared” modify “Hispanic”?



答：apparently, "compared with"/"compared to" can be used to modify the statistic in the preceding clause, even if that statistic doesn't come right before the comma. this is a lesson that you can draw by yourself from looking at this problem, simply by noting what appears in the correct answer.

这里只说了C选项，要看其他分析的http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post21654.html#21654


回到原来的题目中来，也就是说twice本来就不是用来修饰n.的，就是用来修饰numerical concept的，即使离修饰对象很远~~应该可以这么理解的吧~~

-- by 会员 半阙 (2012/1/25 11:36:02)

babybearmm

你看这题这么做可不可以？
其实关于比较的问题，破题思路都是搞清楚什么和什么在比较。这题5个选项，A/B一组，C/D/E一组，前者double，后者twice。

I. 如果用double (as a verb)，正确的句子就应该是：
20 percent of S used C in 1979, doubling the percentage/number reported in ....
首先肯定是"comma, v-ing"（很典型的用法），不能跟不定式.
其次，什么东西double，应该是percentage double 或者 number double
而A里面those指代不明，可以是20 percent ofyoung adults  也可以是 young adults
这样就排除A/B。

2.如果用twice
还是要问，什么是什么的twice？
C/D/E都是twice打头的一截儿（暂且避免纠结独立主格的问题吧），我们还原成完成的句子吧. The author is trying to say:
Something is twice ...........................
有以下两种方式表达这个意思：

a) X is twice Y.  Here X/Y should make logical sense. 就说例如不能X=apple, Y=pear, non-sense!  X和Y都要是数量之类的可比的。
看E选项 (E) twice the number reported in the 1977 survey
Y= the number ( )
因为划线部分并不存在X（我们只是还原成完整句子帮助我们理解），所以我们只需要找到整个句子中是否存在符合逻辑的X来进行比较，发现了，有20 percent，这个和"the number ( )" 是可比的，没问题。
看(C) twice those the 1977 survey reported
Y=those ( )
那么还是有those指代不明确（歧义）的问题

b) X is twice as many/much as Y
这个表达也是可以的，这里X/Y是具体名词（例如apple/pear，而不是number这种抽象的）
many还是much取决于Y是否可数
(D) twice as much as those reported in the 1977 survey
这个those指代，可以是20 percent of young adults  也可以是 young adults
但不管指代什么，都可数，不能用much

总结：其实就是抓住the nature of comparison来解比较考点的题目
这句话，独立主格结构不是考点。

“According to surveys by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, about 20 percent ofyoung adults used cocaine in 1979, doubling those reported in the 1977 survey.
(A) doubling those reported in the 1977 survey
(B) to double the number the 1977 survey reported
(C) twice those the 1977 survey reported
(D) twice as much as those reported in the 1977 survey
(E) twice the number reported in the 1977 survey

OA：E。其中twice跳跃used cocaine修饰20 percent of young adults.”


这是Q181题后面的注解，我就不明白了，同位语就近修饰即使可以跳跃一般不是只能跳跃修饰语么？这儿怎么连谓语都跳过了？求NN指教

-- by 会员 半阙 (2012/1/24 23:35:12)