with引导的独立主格，和去掉with的独立主格区别在哪里？

vinbobo

个人感觉没有区别，那么是否可以认为加上with是 wordy的？

12604698

看句意啦。如果原文的独立结构只是单纯的解释补充前面的名词就不要with，如果想强调伴随的状态就要with的。
我今天刚错了个with的题，就因为觉得with多余，其实那个with坐介词短语，相当于 because of sth的意思 。以后不能这么莽撞的排除with了~。

vinbobo

看句意啦。如果原文的独立结构只是单纯的解释补充前面的名词就不要with，如果想强调伴随的状态就要with的。
我今天刚错了个with的题，就因为觉得with多余，其实那个with坐介词短语，相当于 because of sth的意思 。以后不能这么莽撞的排除with了~。

-- by 会员 12604698 (2011/11/6 22:21:54)

能贴下题目么？

12604698

2.    (24209-!-item-!-188;#058&001071)

In the Louisiana Purchase of 1803, the United States acquired 828,000 square miles for about four
cents an acre, which more than doubled the country's size and that brought its western border
within reach of the Pacific Ocean.

(A) In the Louisiana Purchase of 1803, the United States acquired 828,000 square miles for about
four cents an acre, which more than doubled the country's size and that brought
(B) For about four cents an acre the United States acquired, in the Louisiana Purchase of 1803,
828,000 square miles, more than doubling the country's size and it brought
(C) With the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, the United States acquired 828,000 square miles for
about four cents an acre, more than doubling its size and bringing
(D) The United States, in the Louisiana Purchase of 1803, for about four cents an acre, acquired
828,000 square miles, more than doubling the country's size, bringing
(E) Acquiring 828,000 square miles in the Louisiana Purchase of 1803, the United States bought it
for about four cents an acre, more than doubling the country's size and bringing  

句子结构：With…, the US acquired…, doubling… and bringing…
With介词短语做方式状语，主语是the United States，谓语是acquired，并列的现在分词结构doubling
and bringing作伴随状语修饰主句。

考点：指代一致、逻辑表达
1)     指代一致，which只能指代前面出现过的名词而不能指代整个句子，which指代前面句子表达的意
思常作为伴随状语的混淆选项出现。
2)     逻辑表达，修饰同一对象的成分必须用连词连接使其并列，否则会产生修饰歧义。

(A) which没有指代对象，and that没有并列对象。
(B) and it brought在语法上应该与主句the United States acquired并列，it没有合理的指代对象。
(C)    正确，with在此处的意思是because of sth and as it happens, as a result of。
(D) bringing和doubling并列作伴随状语修饰主句，应该用and连接，否则bringing…的修饰对象有歧
义。
(E) it没有指代对象；acquire与bought同时用，表达不简洁。

vinbobo

饿……这里的with倒是 的确是必须的，不然看不出归属关系；如此看with可以在 没有物主代词的情况下，让逻辑更加清晰

不过，这种独立主格好像不太典型

12604698

曼哈顿语法237页独立主格，提到过几句with，大约那个例句就是with的独立主格没有逗号，意思上等于加了逗号没有with的独立主格~
Owen walked out of the store,his head held high.
Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.

vinbobo

曼哈顿语法237页独立主格，提到过几句with，大约那个例句就是with的独立主格没有逗号，意思上等于加了逗号没有with的独立主格~
Owen walked out of the store,his head held high.
Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.

-- by 会员 12604698 (2011/11/7 16:03:05)

后面一个应该就不是独立主格了，而是作为介词短语？没有见到题目有这样的独立主格
基于这个例子，我觉得with还有一个好处，就是可以把独立主格和同位语分开，万一前面有一个例如和his head差不多的名词，with可以避免混淆

12604698

119. (30813-!-item-!-188;#058&004319)

Due to automobile-related jobs in the 1920's employing one of every eight workers, the automobile
industry dominated the American economy.

(A) Due to automobile-related jobs in the 1920's employing one of every eight workers, the
automobile industry dominated the American economy.
(B) One out of every eight workers were employed in automobile-related jobs in the 1920's, with the
American economy being dominated by the automobile industry.
(C) The automobile industry dominated the American economy in the 1920's, with one of every
eight workers having been employed in automobile-related jobs.
(D) In the 1920's, the automobile industry had dominated the American economy, when one out of
every eight workers was employed in an automobile-related job.
(E) In the 1920's, the automobile industry dominated the American economy, with one out of every
eight workers employed in an automobile-related job.

句子结构：the automobile industry dominated the American economy, with… employed…
主语是industry，谓语是dominated，宾语是the American economy，后跟独立主格结构。

考点：句子结构、逻辑表达、动词形式、习惯用语
句子结构-独立主格结构，with+名词+现在分词。

这里with用得就不显多余。




逻辑表达
1）    修饰，时间状语的位置不可随便变动，以免引起修饰歧义；
2）    维持原句强调重心，原句的主谓结构及修饰成分不应随意改变，以保持原句强调重心；
动词形式-过去完成时，in the 1920’s“在…年代”表达过去的时间，用过去完成时态。
习惯用语，表达“每…”用 one of out every+数字，而不是 one of every+数字。

(A) employing的逻辑主语是jobs，不符合逻辑，应该是industry；时间状语in the 1920’s的位置不正确，
存在歧义，可能是jobs in the 1920’s，也可能是in the 1920’s employing…。
(B) with the American economy being dominated的表达方式不如直接用动词形式更简洁有效，而且
被动语态的表达方式也不够清楚；原句的主谓语the automobile industry dominated…变成了修饰成
分，改变了原句强调重心。
(C)    时间状语in the 1920’s的位置不正确，应该置于句首修饰整个句子；one of every eight workers
与原句要表达的one out of every eight workers不同，前者是“八人中的一人”，而后者是“每八人中就
有一人”；with… having been…的表达方式不清楚。
(D) in the 1920’s是过去的时间，应该用过去时态，而不是过去完成时态；由when引导时间状语从句，
改变了原句所要表达的意思。
(E)    正确，with one out of every eight workers employed in…是独立主格结构。


这个刚遇到的，凌乱了~
不过这个除了with没得选了~
刚又看到百度百科说with结构的是和主句逻辑关系紧密。
不过有其他选项去掉with我会毫不犹豫选那个的。

vinbobo

119. (30813-!-item-!-188;#058&004319)

Due to automobile-related jobs in the 1920's employing one of every eight workers, the automobile
industry dominated the American economy.

(A) Due to automobile-related jobs in the 1920's employing one of every eight workers, the
automobile industry dominated the American economy.
(B) One out of every eight workers were employed in automobile-related jobs in the 1920's, with the
American economy being dominated by the automobile industry.
(C) The automobile industry dominated the American economy in the 1920's, with one of every
eight workers having been employed in automobile-related jobs.
(D) In the 1920's, the automobile industry had dominated the American economy, when one out of
every eight workers was employed in an automobile-related job.
(E) In the 1920's, the automobile industry dominated the American economy, with one out of every
eight workers employed in an automobile-related job.

句子结构：the automobile industry dominated the American economy, with… employed…
主语是industry，谓语是dominated，宾语是the American economy，后跟独立主格结构。

考点：句子结构、逻辑表达、动词形式、习惯用语
句子结构-独立主格结构，with+名词+现在分词。

这里with用得就不显多余。




逻辑表达
1）    修饰，时间状语的位置不可随便变动，以免引起修饰歧义；
2）    维持原句强调重心，原句的主谓结构及修饰成分不应随意改变，以保持原句强调重心；
动词形式-过去完成时，in the 1920’s“在…年代”表达过去的时间，用过去完成时态。
习惯用语，表达“每…”用 one of out every+数字，而不是 one of every+数字。

(A) employing的逻辑主语是jobs，不符合逻辑，应该是industry；时间状语in the 1920’s的位置不正确，
存在歧义，可能是jobs in the 1920’s，也可能是in the 1920’s employing…。
(B) with the American economy being dominated的表达方式不如直接用动词形式更简洁有效，而且
被动语态的表达方式也不够清楚；原句的主谓语the automobile industry dominated…变成了修饰成
分，改变了原句强调重心。
(C)    时间状语in the 1920’s的位置不正确，应该置于句首修饰整个句子；one of every eight workers
与原句要表达的one out of every eight workers不同，前者是“八人中的一人”，而后者是“每八人中就
有一人”；with… having been…的表达方式不清楚。
(D) in the 1920’s是过去的时间，应该用过去时态，而不是过去完成时态；由when引导时间状语从句，
改变了原句所要表达的意思。
(E)    正确，with one out of every eight workers employed in…是独立主格结构。


这个刚遇到的，凌乱了~
不过这个除了with没得选了~
刚又看到百度百科说with结构的是和主句逻辑关系紧密。
不过有其他选项去掉with我会毫不犹豫选那个的。

-- by 会员 12604698 (2011/11/7 18:22:40)

关于这题我倒是有不同理解，如果同样后面的结构，有没有with会选有的一个
因为独立主格结构太长，同时过去分词和过去式有点像，用with可以很好的分清结构间的关系

ps：这个帖子好像就我们在聊，哈哈

12604698

对呀，这个with前几天我研究了小半天。
我觉得原文里想表达的是因果的原因，用了due to 。
这道题，with的确起到了拉近逻辑关系的意思。
如果选项中有一个没有with，有一个有with，那我估计凭语意优先选择没with的。
到时候看具体逻辑意思吧~反正我还没遇到过优先选有with的~等我遇到我再把题贴到这，再研究。