OG 80 vs. 174: the same as 与 that

bunnier

以下是引用vincent0330在2004-6-9 6:49:00的发言：

80(~A). Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time that the civilizations thrived in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates

个人意见:

可是我觉得这样用了两个that, 另外flourished和thrived也是同样的意思, 倒不如用as the civilization, 共用flourished的涵义来得好.....

Yeap, ETS' version is more concise than bunnier's.

vincent0330

以下是引用bunnier在2004-6-10 1:12:00的发言：

Yeap, ETS' version is more concise than bunnier's.

bunnier兄, 我不是抬缸啦!!请不要误会.....

只是觉得当as表动作的可比性时, 通常指的是同一个动作.....

若是用that, 则代表两个动作不同.....

bunnier

以下是引用vincent0330在2004-6-10 6:30:00的发言：

bunnier兄, 我不是抬缸啦!!请不要误会.....

只是觉得当as表动作的可比性时, 通常指的是同一个动作.....

若是用that, 则代表两个动作不同.....

呵呵... 没误会. bunnier really agreed with vincent0330! bunnier should stop creating bogus sentences... but he can't... hehe.

paopao

补充一个例句

The same as /the same that

22. In its most recent approach, the comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position, some 25 degrees above the horizon, that Halley’s comet will pass the next time it appears.
(A) that Halley’s comet will pass
(B) that Halley’s comet is to be passing
(C) as Halley’s comet
(D) as will Halley’s comet
(E) as Halley’s comet will do (ans)

gmej: A之所以不对，是因为the same position that Halley’s comet will pass 中pass的语法上的宾语应该是position，但从逻辑上应该是the Earth。
AS前后比较（强调）的重心其实是状语，不是宾语。
如果这道题A改为that will Halley’s comet也不对，因为还原了是：
the same position that Halley’s comet will pass the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position
那么定语从句的引导词THAT在从句中就不充当任何成份了，这是不可以的。

用AS的话，AS作为连词，连接整个句子，解决了这个问题。

把I read the same books as (that ) most young people do.
写全了是：I read the same books as (that ) most young people read the book.

the same position that Halley’s comet will pass the next time it appears
写全了是：the same position that Halley’s comet will pass the position the next time it appears
逻辑不通。而是：the same position that Halley’s comet will pass the earth the next time it appears

seraphblue

80. Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(D)  flourishing at the same time as those did

也想问D中did为什么必须省略。up

seraphblue

哦，就是说在不产生歧义的情况下，首选省略形式，明白了。

new_land

以下是引用seraphblue在2005-10-14 14:44:00的发言：

哦，就是说在不产生歧义的情况下，首选省略形式，明白了。

我还没有懂，可以帮忙具体解释一下OG的说法么？

did in D and were in E are awkward and unnecessary

seraphblue

new_land,看到你的留言，过来和你一起看这个OG80。

关于D，我的理解如下，希望对你有帮助：

第一，用those指代是错误的，这点相信你没有疑问了，因为你没有问，呵呵；

第二，suppose前面有civilizations，那么those对了，而且由于前面只有civilizations可以指代，那么those指代不会发生歧义，so，其他相同成分全部可省略。

seraphblue

忘了说，E同理。不过E的were本身也是错的，呵呵

new_land

谢谢seraph，怎么快的回答，真是非常的感谢！

那是否可以这样理解：

因为是主语civilizations之间比较，谓语flourished 是相同的，所以可以省略谓语flourished ，直接进行主语间的比较，所以这里DE的were和did是没有必要补出的

the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations （flourished） in the Nile delta