with引导的独立主格，是不是“修饰整个句子”，然后with就是“有”的意思啊

aeoluseros

另外 我想请问下版主  还是 这题

The results of thecompany's cost- cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increasedfive percent during the first three months of this year after it fell overthe last two years.A.    which increased five percent during the first three months of this yearafter it fell
B.    which had increased five percent during the first three months of thisyear after it had fallen
C.which have increased five percent during the first three months of thisyear after falling
D.     with a five percentincrease during the first three months of this year after falling   (C)
E.    with a five percent increase during the first three months of this yearafter having fallen


with独立主格（作伴随或者表状态时）   中的宾语是不是只能修饰主句中的 主语 or 宾语？   不能修饰介宾结构中的宾语? 例如 不能修饰in the profits的profits。


那么其他非with的独立主格 是不是也是这样的？

-- by 会员 woailixuan1990 (2011/10/11 23:58:02)

对的，修饰不到profits。

aeoluseros

LS是大牛！！
俺把题目贴在这里了，能给结合题目具体讲讲吗~
这个结构和独立主格的不同在哪里呢，分别该怎么理解呢
辛苦大牛啦~
220.    (27530-!-item-!-188;#058&002469)    (GWD-24-8)

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.  
A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

-- by 会员 wytk (2011/4/16 23:37:53)

D和E中increase需要有指代对象，而根据下面三条with做独立主格时用法，如果with表示原因，则其无修饰对象，increase也无所指。如果with表示伴随状态(因为前面是主系表)，那么with的逻辑主语成了results，错误。因此with独立主格在这里怎么看都是错的。

with短语做状语三个功能）（伴随原因、动作、状态是独立主格的基本功能，只是因为三种独立主格形式的不同具体应用起来也不同罢了）：
1. 表示原因，此时不需要考虑逻辑主语，只是修饰前面整句
2. 表示伴随动作(非伴随结果)，此时需要注意逻辑主语，且前面不能是完成时态(这样就不能伴随动作了).（with短语要表示伴随结果则需要用with the result of，如prep2-193）.
3. 表示状态（此时前面需要是主系表），同样需要逻辑主语。

-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2011/4/17 12:52:27)

不明白啊，独立主格不是自带主语了么，为什么还需要找逻辑主语？？。。。。求助啊

-- by 会员 ileisure (2011/10/11 21:53:05)

独立主格本身做的是状语，而状语又有其所修饰的对象，
独立主格自身内部有主语，和在外部再修饰一个主语并不矛盾。

mslancaster

好帖子  mark一下

teddybearj4

LS是大牛！！
俺把题目贴在这里了，能给结合题目具体讲讲吗~
这个结构和独立主格的不同在哪里呢，分别该怎么理解呢
辛苦大牛啦~
220.    (27530-!-item-!-188;#058&002469)    (GWD-24-8)

The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell over the last two years.  
A. which increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it fell
B. which had increased five percent during the first three months of this year after it had fallen
C. which have increased five percent during the first three months of this year after falling
D. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after falling
E. with a five percent increase during the first three months of this year after having fallen

-- by 会员 wytk (2011/4/16 23:37:53)

D和E中increase需要有指代对象，而根据下面三条with做独立主格时用法，如果with表示原因，则其无修饰对象，increase也无所指。如果with表示伴随状态(因为前面是主系表)，那么with的逻辑主语成了results，错误。因此with独立主格在这里怎么看都是错的。

with短语做状语三个功能）（伴随原因、动作、状态是独立主格的基本功能，只是因为三种独立主格形式的不同具体应用起来也不同罢了）：
1. 表示原因，此时不需要考虑逻辑主语，只是修饰前面整句
2. 表示伴随动作(非伴随结果)，此时需要注意逻辑主语，且前面不能是完成时态(这样就不能伴随动作了).（with短语要表示伴随结果则需要用with the result of，如prep2-193）.
3. 表示状态（此时前面需要是主系表），同样需要逻辑主语。

-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2011/4/17 12:52:27)

斑斑~我反反复复看了你这张帖子的回复，还有你其他with帖子的回复，你的第一条“表原因，不需要考虑逻辑主语，只修饰前面整句。”这句还是不懂呀~有几个小问题，能不能麻烦确认一下！

1、按我的理解，你的意思是不是说，这个with结构不是独立主格，而是时间状语，所以不需要逻辑主语？
2、但是我的理解时间状语是不是应该修饰前面句子的动词？但是这里有个疑问“如果with表示原因，则其无修饰对象，increase也无所指”，无修饰对象是什么意思？
引出一题，更好说明问题2：OG-verbal-Q96
96.Floating in the waters of the equatorial Pacific, an array of buoys collects and transmits
data on long-term interactions between the ocean and the atmosphere, interactions that
affect global climate.
A. atmosphere, interactions that affect
B. atmosphere, with interactions affecting
C. atmosphere that affects
D. atmosphere that is affecting
E. atmosphere as affects                                             OA：A
这里B按照语意来理解也是表示原因。OG上B的解释是“The prepositional phrase, with . . . has noclear noun or noun phrase to attach to and is therefore ungrammatical”。这里也是说with没有修饰对象，作为原因状语它为什么要修饰名词啊？？？
谢谢斑斑，求解惑！！！

aeoluseros

1. 是原因状语哦，独立主格也可以做原因状语，这点并不矛盾，独立主格也不一定必须有逻辑主语，因为独立这个就是状语，我们的状语本来就是不一定要逻辑主语的，而可能只是对句子的一个修饰。
2. 其实修饰整句和修饰动词没区别的，因为句子的核心意思就是由动词体现出来的。“无其修饰对象”其实指的是“无具体修饰对象，但是修饰的是整个句子”。
3. OG-Q96这个题，with interactions affecting逻辑上不可能做原因状语，所以就只能修饰到某个特定的名词。但是这里with interactions如果修饰主语an array of buoys逻辑也不对，所以with短语就没有清晰的修饰对象了。

teddybearj4

……终于终于懂了！！！我这个破理解能力！！！真心谢谢斑斑的耐心回答！顺便表达一下长久以来的崇拜之情！

下面总结一下好了，把斑斑的高度浓缩扩充一下，例子和highlight是我自己补充的，斑斑帮忙看看对不对捏？：
with短语做状语三个功能（伴随原因、动作、状态是独立主格的基本功能，只是因为三种独立主格形式的不同具体应用起来也不同罢了）：
1. 表示原因，此时不需要考虑逻辑主语，只是修饰前面整句 。（作原因状语，修饰整句话，不特定修饰一个S、O。）
例如：Prep08-Q155. With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.
又例如：Prep08-Q175. (GWD-9-Q3) With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

2. 表示伴随动作(非伴随结果)，此时需要注意逻辑主语（整个with结构和主句的主语逻辑上要符合。），且前面不能是完成时态(这样就不能伴随动作了).（with短语要表示伴随结果则需要用with the result of，如prep2-193）.
例如Prep08-Q162. Orb-weaving spiders such as the argiope build webs that are essentially wheel-like, with an outer rim and a number of spokes emanating from the hub.（作伴随状语，且符合with的独立主格的逻辑主语是spiders）

Prep2-Q193. (T-3-Q2)The honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with the result that the act of stinging causes the bee to sustain a fatal injury.（with the result that作结果状语）


3. 表示状态（此时前面需要是主系表），同样需要逻辑主语。 （没有搜到正确句子，但是据推测应该是和Ving在主系表结构的主句里面，表示状态的作用一致。）


再分析Q220、OGverbal-Q96错误的原因：
Q220：如果with表示原因，修饰整句，increase无所指，错误。如果with表示伴随状态(因为前面是主系表)，那么with的逻辑主语成了results，错误。
OG-Q96：with interactions affecting逻辑上不可能做原因状语和伴随状语。所以就只能是作介宾修饰到某个特定的名词。但是这里with interactions如果修饰主语an array of buoys逻辑也不对，所以with短语就没有清晰的修饰对象了。

amiroven

谢谢ls的讨论，很清晰。


今天看到一个例子：
Og13-114. Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.


在这个句子中，后面with的部分是做独立主格。


1.那么这道题的用法，是归为with独立主格用法的“表示伴随动作(非伴随结果)，此时需要注意逻辑主语，且前面不能是完成时态” 这一类麽？
要怎样翻译呢？


2.是with表达“用”（行为动作的工具）嘛？


求指点~

amiroven

顶一下~

sisichen666

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.这里没有完成时啊，have a ability动宾结构啊，with伴随
starfish，有5-8个触手，如果它们的一个触手丢失了，这个触手会很快（通过这种动物的过度补偿和本身就多长了一个或两个触手）被替换”，with就是括号里的内容

sisichen666

并不建议把with独立主格翻译成有的没的，知道他的功能，修饰谁就可以了