885 sec12-5 再讨论

mariezhu

5. The Forbidden City in Beijing, from which the emperors ruled by heavenly mandate, was a site which a commoner or foreigner could not enter without any permission, on pain of death.
(A) which a commoner or foreigner could not enter without any permission,
(B) which a commoner or foreigner could enter without any permission only
(C) which no commoner or foreigner could enter without permission,
(D) which, without permission, neither commoner or foreigner could only enter,
(E) which, to enter without permission, neither commoner or foreigner could do

这道题越看越觉得是ets又在捣鬼，本来如果没有on pain of death,那么答案无疑是C，不过看到了后面的on pain of death,我觉得C就有问题了。

看了以前问的帖子，但是还是不能认同，所以拿出来再讨论看看

C： The forbidden city is a site which no commoner or foreigner could enter without permission, on pain of death这句话应该如何解释？otherwise he/she will be on pain of death?似乎没有这种语法省略现象吧？ 而B：The forbidden city is a site which a commoner or foreigner could enter without any permission only on pain of death意思很合理，语法也没错啊？

欢迎妞妞们讨论

题外之话：这道题很容易忽视后面的on pain of death选C反倒做对了（如果答案真是C的话），试问ets舍得么？反正如果我是ets，决不舍得不支这个陷阱，呵呵

tianwan

as far as I know, on pain of 是个惯用法，违者以....论处，不可以做名词修饰语。

请ＮＮ指正。

mariezhu

我手头没有好的语法字典，tianwanGG你能找到语法书上的依据么？

我只找到一下一些句子：

We discover that (a) a woman will surrender a child only on pain of death

The chevrons' secret
was so closely guarded that the men who kept it left the island only on pain of death

But more than anything else, I think, was his propaganda triumph about an absolute rule can be broken only on pain of instant death

Now since the wording of the Mishnah shows that both the first two are forbidden and that the only relation explicitly forbidden on pain of burning is his mother-in-law, it follows that 'a woman and her daughter' must mean his mother-in-law ('daughter') and her mother.

tianwan

mariezhu mm:很佩服你的认真。和你讨论偶也是获益非浅，你的例句中都是作状语。

刚才我查得是金山词霸pain，

这个解释来自朗文pain

on/under pain of death
at the risk of being killed as punishment, if you do not obey
Communist activity was prohibited on pain of death.

mariezhu

我觉得这个on pain of..还真是个需要详解的知识点呢

象GG你给的这句Communist activity was prohibited on pain of death.

以及C：no commoner or foreigner could enter without permission, on pain of death(姑且简化成这样)
都有违者将被处死，也就是if you do not obey的意思在里面

但是拿我找到的第二个句子来讲，『The chevrons' secret was so closely guarded that the men who kept it left the island only on pain of death 某秘密看管得如此之好以至于持有秘密的人left the island only on pain of death(这后半部如何翻好？“离开了就会被死刑”？)』却和题目中得B十分相象，即a commoner or foreigner could enter without any permission only on pain of death.

那么我的问题是：on pain of..的这两种用法都是可以的么？又有什么区别？（我注意到第一组句子前面用的都是否定，后面跟on pain of death,有“不能干某事，否则以死罪论处”之意；而后一组句子前半部分是肯定，后跟on pain of death, 有“干某事，会有死罪”之意）具体到我们所做的这道题，如何区分B和C？

请妞妞们来看看吧

tianwan

B，D中的only多余，B without后的any多余。on pain of death 在C中的意思没有问题。你再好好体会一下。

有很多词组都是多意的，有的词组本身不同的意思之间的区别也很微妙。像short of，more than，no more than, in terms of，given 等等，在不同的情况下都有不同的意思。还有词典的意思应该是对的，但可惜的是大部分词典没有收录每个短语的每个用法，有时不得不同时参考几本词典。语法书也一样。

随着这种短语的积累，多见几遍之后，你慢慢的就会有比较全面的认识。千万不要机械的理解，试图一次搞明白，太花时间了，得不偿失。就是背单词也不可能一次就记住（即使这一次花很多时间），mm把时间用到更需要的地方去吧。

JerryGuan

学到了很多东东。。。

我认为，B看起来，形式上符合mariezhuMM说的，干某事，会有死罪。但是，里面有一个could这个词很关键，也就是说，本句话的意思是：可以干某事，会有死罪。这不是不让人活了嘛，让人could做什么，还要判人家死罪，：（

所以，要表达出could这个意思，只有用C这种形式。

mariezhu

呵呵，我觉得tianwanGG说的关于any确实有理。og上有一题就说道了without any ..不如without..简洁

不过我觉得only倒没问题，因为句式如果改成sb can enter on pain of death,那意思就有差异了。

我觉得这两句都可以，即：nobody can enter, on pain of death和sb can enter only on pain of death

问题可能就是any吧

看来讨论还是有用啊，真得谢谢大家

tianwan

merie的观点有启发，不过only表示强调，所以可能B的重心变了。only应该是不可以随意添加的。

觉得jerry的观点有道理。no one could 和 one could do.... only应该是有区别的。

谢谢大家的讨论，有帮助啊。呵呵。

juan

5. The Forbidden City in Beijing, from which the emperors ruled by heavenly mandate, was a site which a commoner or foreigner could not enter without any permission, on pain of death.
(A) which a commoner or foreigner could not enter without any permission,
(B) which a commoner or foreigner could enter without any permission only
(C) which no commoner or foreigner could enter without permission,
(D) which, without permission, neither commoner or foreigner could only enter,
(E) which, to enter without permission, neither commoner or foreigner could do

问个题外话:虽然这里5个选项都是which,没that可选,我想问的是 这里a site which ......是不是应该是a site that...更好些? 好象看过一个关于定语从句的总结:限定性定语从句由that引导,和修饰语之间无","隔开;非限定性定语从句由which引导,和修饰语之间有","隔开.是这样的吗? 或者这并不是一定的?

那么这里a site which.....中间无"," 却用which引导,算是限定性定语从句还是非限定性定语从句?

谢谢指点 .

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-1 3:59:15编辑过]