呼叫斑斑，纠结万年的问题：thus到底是用分词还是用and啊？(关于and、定从和分词的思考）(另关于having的讨论在第二页)

jenny1989

以下是引用lovesasa0820在2009/9/29 12:57:00的发言：

d) ing分词的完成时态不能充当名词的定语,必须转化为定语从句n.+ having done —》n. that…

这个我也有点模糊，可以举例下下么

谢谢

把斑斑的话粘过来了，说得好耶，又有深刻体会了~

我对定语、状语的理解是这样的：有的时候同一个成分、结构可以做定语，也可以做状语，只要区分被修饰对象与结合时态等分析逻辑上能不能合理修饰就够了，没必要太在意是做定语还是做状语。也就是说，区不区分定语、状语都可以，关键是要明白定语和状语的功能都是“修饰”(有点像废话，不过我的意思是平时我统一把他们记为“修饰语”，只有在做题目解释的时候才区分一下)。

188.(26379-!-item-!-188;#058&001961)

Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are now drawing solid conclusions about how the human brain grows and how babies acquire language.

A. Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are

B. Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty years, and are

C. Neuroscientists amassing a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty years, and are

D. Neuroscientists have amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,

E. Neuroscientists have amassed, over the past twenty years, a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,

A选项"having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood"，你可以把这个成分理解成状语，也可以理解为定语，修饰的都是Neuroscientists这个主体或这个主体发出的动作，只要你把having看做定语和状语时，句意理解起来是一样的，那么就没有歧义问题。

97. (29753-!-item-!-188;#058&003991)

Industrialization and modern methods of insect control have improved the standard of living around the globe while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having gone virtually unregulated since they were developed more than 50 years ago.

(A) while at the same time they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants,having

(B) while at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants that have

(C) while they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time,which have

(D) but introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants at the same time that have

(E) but at the same time introducing some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants, having

这里面having可能修饰pollutants，也可能修饰they have introduced some 100,000 dangerous chemical pollutants整个分句，所以having产生了修饰歧义

还要注意A里面两个they指得不是同一个东西。。

[此贴子已经被作者于2009/9/30 0:58:07编辑过]

aeoluseros

咦，改得好快..

jenny1989

再问aeoluseros斑斑  我能不能简单认为 主语，having done.....,谓语 doing....这种结构是正确的呢？

而S+V+O，having done..这种结构就是不对的呢？

jenny1989

。。。发现说得不对。。。赶紧的改了。。我这么速度也被发现了啊。。。

[此贴子已经被作者于2009/9/29 20:56:19编辑过]

aeoluseros

以下是引用jenny1989在2009/9/29 20:44:00的发言：

再问aeoluseros斑斑  我能不能简单认为 主语，having done.....,谓语 doing....这种结构是正确的呢？

而S+V+O，having done..这种结构就是不对的呢？

umm...一时想不到有例外的，不过我觉得SC里没有绝对的东东...

jenny1989

上来自己推翻自己的理论     没办法，生活的乐趣在于语法规则的推翻中。。

引用前人的总结：

一、必错
1.having done和having been done都不是动名词结构，因此不能充当名词成分！
所以SC中，如果这两个结构做主语、宾语等，必错！

2.having done和having been done做后置定语，必错！（只有作后置定语才不能用having done）
having done做后置定语，一般都要改成相应的定语从句
having been done做后置定语，一般都要改成相应的done做过去分词，或者改成定语从句

3.having done和having been done用于“with独立主格”中必错！
指with+sb/sth+having done/having been done这种情况

二、可用但一定要慎用
做状语
having done和having been done都可以做伴随状语，并不是必错。但一定要注意，句子中明确地有“现在完成时”这种意思时，才可以这么用，否则基本都错。（很少对，但是要看时态）
这里举PREP中的两个正确的例子。
1.Having finally reached a tentative labor agreement with its company's pilots, the airline's board of directors must now determine how the airline can both increase profits and compete more effectively for customers than it did in the past.

2.Some patients who do not respond to therapies for depression may simply have received inadequate treatment, having, for example, been prescribed a drug at a dosage too low to be effective or having been taken off a drug too soon.
个人认为第二个例子尤其需要特殊记忆。

这里就是S+V+O，having done正确的经典例子。一些病人接受了不适当的治疗，并且被开药剂量过少或者停用过早。（对前句的补充，逻辑主语是病人） 很明显，被开药等动作不可能是treatment引起的。

我认为这个结构的正确与否关键还是看having done在句尾的逻辑主语是谁，是主句主语还是整句话，或者是逗号前的紧邻名词。如果两个都成立，则有歧义，肯定错。

其次就是现在完成时态的正确判断。（非划线部分的提示）

[此贴子已经被作者于2009/9/30 1:15:25编辑过]

aeoluseros

Some patients who do not respond to therapies for depression may simply have received inadequate treatment, having, for example, been prescribed a drug at a dosage too low to be effective or having been taken off a drug too soon.

貌似having been done结构在这里做同位修饰的，是名词成分。。

jenny1989

以下是引用aeoluseros在2009/9/30 5:08:00的发言：

Some patients who do not respond to therapies for depression may simply have received inadequate treatment, having, for example, been prescribed a drug at a dosage too low to be effective or having been taken off a drug too soon.

貌似having been done结构在这里做同位修饰的，是名词成分。。

1.having done和having been done都不是动名词结构，因此不能充当名词成分！

上面说名词成分比错。。还是第一条。。我觉得是伴随状语啊。。

aeoluseros

恩，我对那条持不同意见，不是说sc没有绝对么，having done/having been done为什么就不能够是动名词结构呢..

有一个说法叫做Perfect gerund：: Having + past participle

She finishes having had courses.
They finished having had courses.
She finishes now having courses before (last week).
They finished before having courses before (before last week).

taceback:http://ajaja.paradoxinc.org/Advanced/Writing/GerundInfinitives.html

jenny1989

好崩溃啊。。这个这个。。我看不懂。。