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以下是引用hecdapianju在2008-6-24 3:38:00的发言：
首先，不要误以为后面回帖那个dhdlorent是学校的MBA。他也就是一个装hec得自卑的骗子，出来混淆视听而已。大可不必和这种人计较。
此贴表达有点过激，想看中性得，可以看师妹sophieqi得帖子。但是有人pm我说，说还是要看了这个再看sophie的比较全面， 大家可以尝试。
我想说说hec值得16k么？
16k 是多少大家都会算，16k euros = 12k pounds, 加点钱去读cambridge 了好吧。 1, have you ever studied in cambridge? 2, how will you compared the education quality in business management, finance between cambridge and hec? 3, how will you compared the career prospect of the students in both schools? 4, did you make any contact with the chinese students in cambridge? 5, as you believed, finace industry cares a lot about one's previous exposure in the industry, how can you be sure one's chance of switching into finance from a different field will be improved in cambridge without the required experience? 6, yes, the london financial market caters more opportunities to international students. but how do you know studying cambridge will allow you more chance than hec, provided that hec students have two opitions of working locations, english-speaking country and french-speaking country? 7, reputation-wise, admittedly cambridge sounds great. but what age is nowadays? internet age, right? it is not difficult to check the business school ranking on www.ft.com , right ?
hec的课程，第一年就找了一些外面莫名其妙的老师来讲，有一个同学当年学金融，老师讲的之烂，听说是世界罕见，当然最后老师被开了，但是考虑到每年hec那么多流动老师，呵呵，很难说下一个就不是你啊。说说我自己，我记得第一年那么多课程最多最多有4个课让我觉得满意。其他一概bull-shit. it happens, and undistinguishly happens in any school, and any program, as i learnt that it is the same situation, or even worse in other top schools, from exchange students from the top 10 US MBA program and my classmates who went to do exchange in the namely top schools in any countries, US,Canada, UK..... the good teachers, like good students, are always the minority, leaving far behind the common majority. this is a brutal reality, sorry....... but even with such "soberity" in your description, i still see the otherwise based upon the qaulity of MBA faculty in hec. yes, in MBA program, some teachers have also been fired because of the protest of students, a phenomenon never happened in the chinese education institution. but, i dont think you can find the following list of profs in any other european schools, the dean of harvard european academy, the finance prof whose theory was one of the major financial theory in morden finance the economics prof who was the former CEO of a major financail insitution in europe, and spent years teaching macro-economics in berkeley whose economics major is probabaly the best of the world. the luxury marketing prof, the former CEO of LV the high-tech market prof, the former VP of IBM, stanford MBA the marketing track prof, who was HEC grande ecole, Harvard MBA in 80s, and INSEAD phd the former columbia prof who was the VP of Disney, Pepsi, and one of the 100 brightest women in US naminated by Advertising Age surely, there are some other profs who are by all means no worse than the above-mentioned, though without sounding title.... all the striking is these faculties are just for MBA, the so-called second-class citizen in hec....
第二年我读的是finance。 hec得特点就是找一些公司的人过来讲。讲些很肤浅很表面的东西比同样是finance 同样收费16k只要1年的ms项目课程差多了。。。如果你想靠知识取胜，i am sorry, 你败了。
有人要和我争，做金融不需要知识只需要hec得牌子。我同意。但是我要指出最后的最后还是看以前的背景。 你以前什么背景没有不学金融学得莫名其妙的东西来到hec想要和以前有过金融背景的人拼你就去试一试把。 agree, but for those without former experience, can he/she dramatically change his/ler landscape of future career in finance by going after a different program? you know the answer better than i, right?
我们不和法国人比， 法国人觉得你们都很sb。我们就国人自己比。我认识得当年能顺顺当当去做finanace得。要不就是国内有n年工作经验得，要不是国内名校科班出生得，要不是法语系法语好到让我不得不佩服得。 其他得人就准备脱以成皮把。最后获得的工作也不过就是一个每个礼拜上班80个小时以上累得跟一个slave一样得sb工作。
please tell me what you can do without w/e in any country of the world? please tell me what you can do in france without w/e, network in china, if you cannot speak french ? to be frank, for guys like you without a right mentality, adeaquate w/e, and strong background in china, you should have the every reason to be happy to be enslaved by the french/ or any other western country....
工资高么？有些时候高，有些时候低， base也不过45k把， 不要忘记法国得税收是很高得，你就去除30%大约。 年成好有bounus也要交更多税，最后拿到手上得不会比一般每天朝九晚五得的同学高不了多少倍。有了你们，法国社会得福利体制就会建立得更好！谢谢你们。谢谢！ as for the ROI, i am not sure how you percieve your intangible reward in study/work in france. but i am sure a lot of chinese guys have the basic wisedom to appreciate the fact that their compensation in working abroad goes beyond pecuniary term. that being said, i dont deny the difference between Uk and france. in terms of finance, UK does have more chance than france, but please be reasonable, if you can go to a UK school in the very beginning, why came to HEC. and again how do you know your chance will be dramatically amplified in cambridge, while decreased in HEC? you know, in my eyes, you are so abherrently short-sighted.......
我说你们想要逼自己去做finance的人，你就自己试一试一个礼拜每天干到晚上12点，然后第二天早上起来9点继续干，一个礼拜6天 连续一个月，如果你觉得这样得生活太exciting了， welcome on board。 不行， 就不要干了。不要迫害自己，最后落得遇到金融危机得时候，sb被裁员。 现在公司大把裁做credit得，虽然法国还好，但是还是看到大把同事被裁，连个生活都无法保障了。这样市场危机，
多么？ 好像蛮多得吧， 01 02 年， 07 08 年， 10年之类2次, god bless
u! at this point of argument, your suggestion is "please dont come to IB", not " please dont come to HEC". you id should be ibdapianju. so, why such a global financial crisis became the excuse for your claim hec cheated you? you believe you can escape the affect of this finance crisis by attending other school? or you wanna suggest others not go abroad to stay away from the financial crisis ?
关于做金融得第二点想法。很多人看到major finance得宣传册很激动得说， 哇，收入20%得人第一年有80k(税前)我来给你解析一下。 首先，我更你说谁能拿到这个工作。 你认为是你嘛？哇，好像很难，HEC里面拿到最好工作的人这些写在宣传册上得人：要么他爸爸是法国nb公司得nb总裁，要么是犹太人，要么他爸爸是某发展中国家得垄断行业得老板，要么是长相非常姣好得美女（可以比照模特或者车模一级看）。这是我所知道得，能够基本上填满了上面这20%得人。如果你不再其列，yeah。
i am sorry. 你准备脱一层皮把。而且好像你的皮有时候也不是很值钱 sorry, it is life. and it is more possible that you even dont have the chance to get a job, without the title of hec, in france, in the current stage of economy...... how much do you think you are worth? 80k? please, give me a break. please bear this in mind, you have no w/e, no excellent french, no strong background in china, and you are not a pretty auto model........ so, be realistic, and reasonable.
我还要再次强调， 16k+生活费8k=24k， 2年48k， 48k*1.1=502k人民币
如果你获得了奖学金，fine，你剪掉一些， 但是还是一个很大得数字，有人要说，我第一年之后做实习，赚回来。
呵呵， 做实习是你自己得时间，很多人做，没错。但是为什么不早点出啦工作呢，出来工作工资哪么高？法国学校浪费你得时间，让你再法国得公司里面打下手，给你一个很sb得工资，fine。 反正是你得青春，你得资源。 你自己看的办。
the same here. how do you know you will go direct to get a job in UK without former w/e? it seems you believe anyone will be safeguarded a job in a UK school. why not take it into account the fact the obsolute number of chinese students in both countries? do you think you will face less competition in the Uk job market, with your current stage of intelligence?
finance对经验要求高， 做实习是好得。 但是用用你的脑筋。 法国人得法国工作对法国客户得finance 他不会需要你得。外国公司来法国招人，需要能服务法国客户得，好像也不是你。 最后对中国得项目，你就等着竞争把。
所有得grand ecole，你不要以为你有一个hec得招牌法国人会对你刮目想看，很多大公司知道你们不是考法国高考进来得，
把你和所有来法国得中国人一样看待。 sure it is ture french set you differently from the french, but it is the same to all the chinese grande ecole in france, right? so, compared with other chinese, you dont think you have the edge with hec background in france? do you have the confidence to deny that and say i can achieve the same result without hec? i really seriosuly doubt please tell me how many school in france can invite the CEO of L'oreal and CEO of Carrefour in the graduation ceremony? want me mention other facts???? 倒是有时候你去外国，外国公司会误以为你很牛。有人想去london，fine， hec名气不错， 但是，还是我说得，你是上面我列的几类人之一，fine。如果不是，以你得英语，有点难度把。 british English可是accent很重得。你再法国，一个特别特别不讲英语得国度，希望你能够逆流而上。成功得例子有。但是为什么要花16k来逆流呢？ 你花钱不是为了逆流把。中国有那种压不跨得精神，很好。 但是还是要理智，你花你父母得血汗钱，是来在一个很好得环境，和很好得老师提高你得认识，提高你找工作得机会。不是来逆流得。 my view is if you are pretty strong in english, why not go to UK in the beginning. and if your french is better than your english, then you should go to UK. but do you have any feeble idea of how many guys want to go to cambridge and oxford? if you can speak french, why not take advantage of it and find a short-cut for your career success?
hec得生活。 山下有个湖，不错。一年能去一次barbicue之类得。其他很多时间再读书，
还是挺忙得。法国人得圈子很难融入，有朋友很拼，一年都之粘着法国同学混。 不错。 大多数中国人自己混混。 well, it is true, and not exceptional in hec that chinese everywhere in the world find hard to mix with the locates...... it is our problem, not the locates'. it is our narrow menality that hinders our should-be proactive approach to the western guys, though hec provides you such good enviornment to open your eyes to learn different culture and communicate people really from all of the world, unlike the US school in which the majority is american....... but gladly, unlike you guys, i do made some very good friends in hec. though we have arguments in classroom, in the group work, we finally became the best friends. maybe you think i am mature since i am mba with more w/e and know how to communicate with the western guys. but i would say, it is your stage of mentality that will shape your interpersonal relationship within an alien cultural context. in this regard, i feel most chinese are not open-minded and broad-hearted enough........ you guys think too much in the communication with the western people. they are somewhat arrogant, but most of them are decent, honest, open-minded, polite, dignified, and trustworthy.........
生活很无聊。交通比起escp很不方便。 life is bored? are you kidding? i enjoied a lot in paris, the most beautiful city in the world, the home of intelligentsias, the most refined and cultured city in the world. if you cannot appreciate the life there, please blame yourself for lacking the humanitarian gene to fit to the high culture of the city. surely, it is not your fault. it is the problem of the chinese education that furnishes you no ccultivation on the cultural issue. what you learnt in your chinese univ is just the practical skills for basic living.
很多人觉得无所谓，等你稍微有点事情跑城里得时候你就知道有所谓了。等你朋友们一起再paris吃饭，法国吃饭晚， 没到9点你就要开始看表， 10点不走你就没车回去了，更加不要说出来喝一杯。 1, how often do you go to paris for dinner? each weekend? you cannot squeeze more time for each weekend? 2, on the other hand, you still have choice to move into paris, as many mba did. is it a legimate exuse to say hec cheated you ? pauvre hec 。而且法国效率，服务态度很恶劣，歧视外国人， frankly, i dont feel any discrimination at all during my stay in france. in terms of discrimination, chinese are mch worse. you can get more dirty look and hostality in big cities like bj, sh, if you are not local people. in france, the only one who can discriminate you is yourself.
你要是去办个什么事情，除了差错，嘿嘿，等着瞧把。 而且大家要出去面试，如果上午9点得面试，你就等着5点起床，慢慢爬下山，等郊区快线把。
it is life, not just for you, but for anybody in hec, mba, master, grande ecole. but most people never mention it..... 没有同情，这是社会得本质，但是为什么不住在城里，让自己也能享受paris生活得同时学习知识呢？很多人说，我住再外面， fine. 每天交通爬上，上课，还不能和学校同学一起，错过很多东西。不能说没有人这样干，干过得告诉我都是身心疲惫。 life is made of trade-offs. you cannot get all the benefits, sometimes. and if you perfer life to the name of hec, why not make a right decision in the beginninng?
你得选择。学校每个礼拜有party 法国叫soiree， 内容无聊，装潢为零，和国内得pub没法比，一般入场10-20euros，都是搞一夜情得，以前有个中国同学去，和一个法国男生跳跳舞，马上人家连裤子都脱了。
这。当然也是极端啦。但是大多数得国际同学好像觉得这个很有必要，有一个外国女同学每个礼拜就都去get laid。希望大家能够适应国外得生活方式。无论男女，都有所斩获。 totally bullshit. how many time did you go to the party on each Thursday night? the number is zero, right ? which kind of content are you looking for a party in a school? if you wanna see decoration, please come back to chinese pub, where is full of beautiful decoration, but really stupid people, hahaha.......
关于hec得服务。 我不好说。 一般法国人得态度之恶劣，服务之差，是世界有名得。suck, please let me know what kind of service you got in your chinese school. 办一个居留证动辄3个月，一旦有点问题，可能根本不是你得问题，就要6个月左右。 it is very exceptioanl to get card de sajour in six months. very few encountered such situation.
当然我们便宜，不好和UK比。 但是现在pounds 哪么便宜， euro哪么贵，我看不出便宜再那里， 16k。。。。哎。。。hec还好，知道法国麻烦，都有协助你办理。 但是也很扯皮， 比如说第一年入校，山下有一个门需要学生证，第一年9月开学，第二年1月拿到，第三年得学生证， 很多人毕业都拿不到，为什么？学校的人告诉你说，你要有拘留才有学生证。办拘留得地方说，你连个学生证都没有，我不给你拘留。这种事情时有发生，大家习惯就好。 it is the first time to heard such thing. i got my student card in 2 weeks. but frankly, i dont think that could be an issue of argument since you can wait at the door, soon some guys will come with their student cards. it is problem worthy no mentioning, simply leaving alone making a fuss crying hec cheated you.
HEC以前我们得国际部老师是一个很和蔼得英国人Mrs France，体谅外国人，办事情很靠谱。后来听说换了一个法国人，听一些师弟师妹说态度之差，叹为观止。叫什么ritter吧。 yes, some french faculties are indeed snobbish and annoying. but most of them are still very nice. please be objective.
hec得住房部，服务态度十分恶劣。 那个家伙叫什么来着..我 忘记了，态度非常恶劣，而且是对所有人，特别是外国人除非你是外国女人。 课程一结束就逼你立马走人， 你再山上还不知巴黎滋味，你就要被赶到巴黎去自己漂浮了，希望你好运能够一边期末考，一边找实习，一边再一个很难找房得巴黎找到一个安居得地方而且希望离
你上班得地方还不是很远虽然很有可能你不知道你到那里去上班，而且你用你不是很好得法语顶着法国人得歧视找到房子。而且你去住房处那里找他，如果法语一 般，他还会故意装听不懂， pardon pardon. okay fine。 it is true. so please be prepared early to find an apartment in paris before graduation. but it is also a right reason to say hec cheated you???
hec得食堂，是我最爱得地方，每天早上可以免费喝咖啡，哇。。终于体会到了160k人名币得好处。 you also want free lunch and free dinner?
hec得图书馆我很爱， 服务态度好。
总之，大家要sophisticated 一点，这个道理就像评价一个基金经理一样。他得表现如果跑过大盘，说明他nb，如何低于大盘虽然收益可能是正得，他依然sb。你能找到好工作是你自己的努力，如果hec能帮你，说明hec nb，如果帮不上，就算找到好工作，也是你得努力和hec没有关系。 学校大幅提价，而就业机会并没有明显得改善（具体得计算方法，我觉得可以参见后面supperpapa关于就业前景得计算方法）。我只希望下面得师弟师妹来的时候对学校得状况有个心理准备。特别对于自己的经济状况要有客观的评价，不要对hec就业能够给你带来的好处过高估计。 yes, i agree that the increased tuition fees will add more burden to the chinese students. and job market may not pick up in the visible future. so, please be causious in choosing which school you will go if you have some serious financail difficulty. but, let's be reasonble again, to see things in a comprehansive and long-term view. especailly, you'd better take your own situation into careful consideration, to see which way will make your life better out and what hec means to you, a desire or a need. for those who wanna get education in hec, please fully take advantge of the alumni network in hec and do your job searching as early as possible. if you find a job in europe upon graduation, congratulations! if not, dont worry, searching the french companies in china while staying in hec. you will definitely find a desirable job in china that is much better than the one you can get if you just stay in china. the chinese economy now is shifting towards to the third industry, and so your chance to be better off than other chinese in the future chinese society is rather huge, though not guaranteed.
bless.
[此贴子已经被作者于2008-8-5 23:29:47编辑过] | 
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发表于 2008-8-3 00:22:00
