[求助]请教大全157

turtlechen

我猜！
版主那句是因為在描述古人，古人不會持續到現在
DansyMM最後一句是描述現代人的一種現象，現代人可以持續到現在

現在完成式用在"過去的一件事"或"過去持續到現在的概念"。
應該是這樣吧！

turtlechen

以下是引用dansy在2004-1-6 10:32:00的发言：
下面几句是我收集的不定式加完成时的句子。(可能还不全)。 我也对这个问题不懂，看看大家能不能从下面的句子里看出点道道来。
(1)  A huge flying reptile that died out with the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago, the Quetzalcoatlus had a wingspan of 36 feet, and it is blieved to have been the largest flying creature the world has even seen.
(2) The fear of rabies is well founded; few people are known to have recovered from the disease once the clinical sysmptoms have appreared.
(3) Geologiests believe that the Bering land bridge, over which human beings are thought to have first entered the Americans, disappeared abt 14,000 years ago when massive glaciers melted and caused the sea level to rise several hundred feet worldwide.
(4) In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yuugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
(5) The domestication of the camel, thought by some scholars to have occurred around the twelfth centry B. C, was the key to the development of the spice trade in the ancient world.
(6) The distinctive hereditary tartans alleged to have been worn since antiquity by memebers of the Higland clans were in fact designed by Scottish woolen manufactures in the eighteenth and nineteenth centruies.
(7) For some birds the sense of smell appears to play a role in navigation, since pigeons with surgically removed alfactory nerves have been found to have increased difficulty in homing.
还有一些是不能加完成时的，比如楼主那句，和下面这句。
The western world's love affair with chocolate is well-documented; few people have been known to taste it for the first time without requesting more。
大家都来讨论吧，让我们搞懂这个问题。众人拾柴火焰高哪！

OG 9. 9. astronomers at the palomar observatory have discovered a distant supernova explosion, one they believe to be of a type previously unknown to science.
我找到一个依据，对解题没有帮助。倒是可以增加语感：

在 collins cobuild english grammar 提到(3.207)：
下列动词接tov时总是用被动
allege, assume, believe, claim, consider,deem, discover, estimate, feel, find, know, learn, prove, reckon, report, require, rumour, say, see, think, understand

他们表示言谈，想法或发现时，后面常接 to be 或 to have Vpp
ex. the house was believed to be haunted.  
ex. the primitive molecules which are believe to have given rise to life on Earth.

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-1-17 5:06:11编辑过]

cdlinlan

以下是引用dansy在2004-1-6 10:32:00的发言：
下面几句是我收集的不定式加完成时的句子。(可能还不全)。 我也对这个问题不懂，看看大家能不能从下面的句子里看出点道道来。
(1)  A huge flying reptile that died out with the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago, the Quetzalcoatlus had a wingspan of 36 feet, and it is blieved to have been the largest flying creature the world has even seen.
(2) The fear of rabies is well founded; few people are known to have recovered from the disease once the clinical sysmptoms have appreared.
(3) Geologiests believe that the Bering land bridge, over which human beings are thought to have first entered the Americans, disappeared abt 14,000 years ago when massive glaciers melted and caused the sea level to rise several hundred feet worldwide.
(4) In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yuugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
(5) The domestication of the camel, thought by some scholars to have occurred around the twelfth centry B. C, was the key to the development of the spice trade in the ancient world.
(6) The distinctive hereditary tartans alleged to have been worn since antiquity by memebers of the Higland clans were in fact designed by Scottish woolen manufactures in the eighteenth and nineteenth centruies.
(7) For some birds the sense of smell appears to play a role in navigation, since pigeons with surgically removed alfactory nerves have been found to have increased difficulty in homing.
还有一些是不能加完成时的，比如楼主那句，和下面这句。
The western world's love affair with chocolate is well-documented; few people have been known to taste it for the first time without requesting more。
大家都来讨论吧，让我们搞懂这个问题。众人拾柴火焰高哪！

我是新手，斗胆加入讨论。
仔细看了上面的句子，觉得在决定to后面的时态的时候可以把to 前面的动词去掉。比如(1)  A huge flying reptile that died out with the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago, the Quetzalcoatlus had a wingspan of 36 feet, and it has been the largest flying creature the world has even seen.
(2) The fear of rabies is well founded; few people have recovered from the disease once the clinical sysmptoms have appreared.
...
(6) The distinctive hereditary tartans has been worn since antiquity by memebers of the Higland clans were in fact designed by Scottish woolen manufactures in the eighteenth and nineteenth centruies.
另外，个人认为7和前面的讨论无关，是说鸽子have increased difficulty in homing. increased 是过去分词，修饰difficulty 。

请大侠指证

[此贴子已经被作者于2004-1-17 11:23:11编辑过]

snow_mountain

以下是引用turtlechen在2004-1-6 12:10:00的发言：
我猜！
版主那句是因為在描述古人，古人不會持續到現在
DansyMM最後一句是描述現代人的一種現象，現代人可以持續到現在

現在完成式用在"過去的一件事"或"過去持續到現在的概念"。
應該是這樣吧！

事实上，这个Samuel Johnson 就是英国文学史上的一个大文豪，老里八早就死了。当然不能用have done 结构 。同时，同意楼上某位说的，在有明显完成时态标志的情况下用完成时态。

gmat700+

刚刚google了一下，这个Samuel Johnson 生于1709年，死于1784年。所以，对早已作古的人还是用一般时态的不定式好。

携隐

还是bryony说的,没有明显的提示就不要用完成时态.ETS好心的在每个时态考点上都插了小红旗(源自MUMU心经),所有的时态都是有提示的.本题也有提示:was reported. 据说他是如何如何的,而前面这个句子是根据据说的内容得出的,既然据说已经结束于过去,前面的句子当然也结束于过去,不会再延续了. 没有report他现在如何,ETS怎会如此不严谨地说他到现在为止还没有收到干扰呢.

kattie

bother不是持续动词，用完成时有点怪，再说也没有时间壮语说明一定要用过完。

三脚猫

以下是引用dreadpower在2004-1-2 22:01:00的发言：
157.Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.
(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother
(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered
     答案是B，可是我觉得这里用不定式的完成时态好，表示持续到现在都没有bother Samuel Johnson，请大家指教

分号前提到Balzac已经died of caffeine poisoning,是很单纯的讲述过去的情况，我觉得跟完成时没关吧

jonasjin

to have done  不定式 + 现在完成式 总结分享

前一段时间对上述结构不是理解，查了CD的讨论也没有特别满意的解释，经咨询老师后恍然大悟，现整理如下共大家参考。

第一个用法，也就是在GMAT中常出现的  -  用在indirect speech （report speech）- 也就是说信息提供的人不是直接的陈述者

如human beings are thought to have first entered the Americans  大全325题

human beings first entered这个观点不是这篇文章的作者这么想，而是 are thought（被认为 – 被人们认为）

因为to have 是用在indirect speech，所以经常跟在think, claim, believe 等于陈述信息相关的单词后面多以被动的形式出现. To 前面动词的事态没有限制

可以从以下的例子中仔细体会 – 例子是从CD 的贴子中借的，都是大全例的例子

    it is thought to have happened

    six teenagers    claimed to have had vision of the virgin

    it is believed to have been the largest  

    few people are known to have recovered

    thought by some scholars to have occurred

    alleged to have been worn

经典的例子是大全157题，同时包括 to have 和 to be

Balzac drank more than fifty cups of coffee a day and died of caffeine poisoning; furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother Samuel Johnson, the great writer and lexicographer, who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting.

(A) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to bother

(B) however, caffeine did not seem to bother

(C) however, caffeine did not seem to have bothered

(D) furthermore, caffeine did not seem to have bothered（B）

(E) in addition, caffeine did not seem to bother

做这个题的时候有些朋友可能看到没有划线部分的have drunk 后根据平行原则选C， 但这里因为seem 不是表达别人意见的词，而是做着对这件事情的看法，所以就没有必要用to have bothered 正确 答案是B. 如果我们把句子改称

however, it is said caffeine did not to have bothered 这样就可以了

而没有划线部分who was reported to have drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting注意一下这里的was reported 也就是 drunk twenty-five cups of tea at one sitting 这个表述不是作者直接的而是引用别人的report 的 所以用了to have 这个形式

第二种用法是future

he is to have become the next president by the end of January

- he will have become the next  与这个意思想象，不过 will 是uncertain    is to have  是certain

he was to have been next president (在过去的时点上看未来)

还有现在完成式和过去完成式的用法简单地补充一下

大家都知道现在完成式是跟time 有关，time 对是用现在完成式还是用一般过去式的一个基准。如果有明确的时间或标志词例如，since 等比较好判断，但句子里没有明显的提示时应该怎么判断呢？另外的一半的判断基准是作者是否对他所表达的东西的态度 – 是一般的陈述还是强调。 如果是一般的陈述那就用一般过去时，如果作者对描述的东西的态度是强调那就用现在完成式 FOR EXAMPLE

I didn’t eat lunch. I am not hungry  只是一般的陈述

I haven’t eaten lunch, so I am hungry 这里的前面的部分时后面句子的原因，为了表达后面的这个结果必须强调没有吃午饭的这件事情。

GMAT的现在完成式大多符合这个规律

如果那位朋友对现在完成是和一般过去式不太好把握的时候，哪这个基准去判断一下，基本上都很清楚。

一个小tip ：  在打开大全后（word 版面）点击上面 编辑  - 查找  然后输入关键词 have 就可以不费力气找到所有的根现在完成时有关的题了，复习的时候有效地用这个 查找功能 有很大的帮助，可以让你很轻松地找到某一个类型来复习。例如 复习比较就可以输入  than , as, rather than 等 。

过去完成式是从根本上说就是在过去的时点上用一般现在时，也就是把现在完成时搬到过去的时点了

举例 大全332题

His studies of ice-polished rocks in his Alpine homeland, far outside the range of present-day glaciers, led Louis Agassiz in 1837 to propose the concept of an age in which great ice sheets had existed in now currently temperate areas.

(A) in which great ice sheets had existed in now currently temperate areas

(B) in which great ice sheets existed in what are now temperate areas

(C) when great ice sheets existed where there were areas now temperate

(D) when great ice sheets had existed in current temperate areas（B）

(E) when great ice sheets existed in areas now that are temperate

我记得很多老师讲过去完成式的时候说这个时态用在一个过去的事情发生在另一个过去的事情以前的时候用， 按照此理容易选A 因为

His studies     led    great ice sheets had existed  

这里的led 和 1837 表明 这个propose 发生在过去（只不过这里因为式不定式的缘故看不大出来）

那么 ice sheets existed 是这个以前的事情 是否也应该用had existed 呢

然而，按照上面的我提过的方法 - 过去的时点上用一般现在时 – 来看如果我们假设我们在1837年的时点上看这个问题那么就会是

Agassiz propose the concept of an age in which great ice sheets existed in now currently temperate area  因为这里是一个对ice sheets存在的一般陈述，而不是强调，所以不必要用

have existed  如果是 have existed的话，那么回到现在的时点看的时候 就应该是

led Louis Agassiz in 1837 to propose the concept of an age in which great ice sheets had existed in now currently temperate areas.

而因为就用过去的时点看正确的也是 sheets existed 所以回到现在也是用一般过去时

可能有点罗嗦，总而言之一句话，也就是把现在完成时搬到过去的时点了。其实从另外一个角度也可以理解- 陈述的两件事情没有直接的联系就没有什么内在联系 如 强调等 ，那么也没有必要用过去完成式了

例外

大全99

1.        Although the manager agreed to a more flexible work schedule, he said that it must be posted on the bulletin board so that both management and labor will know what everyone is assigned to do.

(A) he said that it must be posted on the bulletin board so that both management and labor will know what everyone is

(B) he said it had to be posted on the bulletin board so that both management and labor knows what everyone is

(C) he said that they would have to post the assignments on the bulletin board so that management and labor knew what everyone was

(D) he said that the schedule would have to be posted on the bulletin board so that both management and labor would know what everyone was（A）

(E) saying that the schedule had to be posted on the bulletin board so that both management and labor would know what everyone had been

said that  后面不用按照indirect speech的规律 尽管said 是过去式，但后面可以跟现在时 我想可能是原话引用的意思吧  我记得还有一道类似的题。

请大家指正

benjaminshufe

以下是引用gmat700+在2004-9-17 11:28:00的发言：

刚刚google了一下，这个Samuel Johnson 生于1709年，死于1784年。所以，对早已作古的人还是用一般时态的不定式好。

兄弟强的啊,这个都google