Stanford MBA's article in business week

Shuzhen

this article is telling the naked truth: most mbas are assholes

suncola

Regardless which b school this Tim guy is from, he is famous on the Street for being totally blocked out due to a probably-not-intended article.

Not offensive at all. Most ppl don't remember his school but how his behavior brought troubles to his career.

redsoxfan

Tim Shields and Peter Chung.  Two names that got famous thanks to the Internet.  

dolma

hehe，有趣。

MBA充其量只能称为training，不能叫做education，这里面的区别还是很大的。比如一个人念哈佛本科，可以说他是Harvard-educated，但是去HBS或者KSG或者GSD，就只能说Harvard-trained。

一个人的为人早在念MBA之前就形成并根深蒂固难以改变了。所以，他们的言行在多大程度上能够代表学校。。。

大家对这种文章，一笑而之吧，不必太在意。

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-1-27 15:54:43编辑过]

高握全球

to chenxinpku:

you don't get the point. look, I said, "who can say they don't discriminate less educated people? ", is, by definition, a general question addressed to mass market, and you don't have to get it personal (i.e., I got into stanford or blah, blah)

it's a common logic problem. you are narrowing down the scope of the topic.

can't you read "It's a just a joke. isn't it obvious? ", which Iwrote above clearly.

I said it's a joke.

by saying stanford is a top school, you are just mentioning irrelevant facts.
你可以说地球是圆的，人是妈生的，so what? has nothing to do with the legitmacy of your argument.

我说这个是个玩笑，你还在玩笑里struggle, argue。don't you get it? IT IS A JOKE.

什么斯坦福好不好，傲不傲不是Point，point是这writing是个玩笑，can't you get it?
就好比赵本山说，铁岭是大城市，你就不乐意了，你说上海也是大城市。

退一步说，我就是进不了商学院，那个也还是玩笑呀，哈哈。我进了kellogg,那个人写的也还是个玩笑，你非要纠察里面的问题也可以。

don't state the obvious: 什么斯坦福就是一所学校而已，地球人都知道。。。

人家开玩笑就是想逗乐，你非要get pissed off。。。。

to be honest, you have two choice,
1. appreciate the beauty of the joke, and have fun
2. throw mud at the literal meaning.

I chose 1, whether or not I got into stanford, cuz I know it's a joke.  you can play smart and do the 2nd choice.

And, I don't want to reach an agreement with you at all, so don't try to convince me.
最后说3点：
1。世界上就是有歧视，你也有
2。这个是个玩笑文字，没有必要get serious or personal（当然，你愿意也可以）．有智商的人都知道这个是笑话
3。这个故事是半杯水，你可以觉得是half empty, but I think it's half full.


还有人说most mbas are assholes。这就好比说有钱人都是坏人，聪明人都小气，不是逻辑有问题，是脑子有问题，严重问题。


you can throw it away, but I like it.


as for sensing my tone similar to Tim, thank you for your unobjective judgement.  I am flattered.

[no offense, just some thoughts]

To 高握全球: i
can sense from your tone something similar to that of Tim Shields. I
know you got offer from Stanford and you most likely will go there.
Maybe you are already talking about things from the perspective of a
Stanford MBA.

Firstly, I do
not think all Stanford MBAs talk about and think of other MBAs in that
way. In that case, I would doubt their long term perceived value in the
eyes of their colleagues and employers;

Secondly,
you mentioned that "who can say they don't discriminate less educated
people? " But, who can say Stanford people are necessarily more and
better educated? and who can say "better educated" people are
necessarily "better" people who can always do better in life than less
educated people? Come on, stanford is just a top business school and
MBA is just a degree, nothing more. This is a BIG world, bigger than
you might imagine.

Fightingman

火药味渐浓。。。

各位牛人，莫伤和气

其实我也觉得不必因此文而对斯坦福有任何看法

1. 他可能只是开玩笑，无心之过，没想到伤害别人。。。谁能无过？

2. 就算他是有意的，一个人一生难免犯错，不能说明这个人真的有多坏。。。谁能无错？

3. 就算这个人本身就坏，一个人不能代表一个学校，就像他所评述的人不能代表wharton,HBS。。。谁能概全？

所以综上所述。。。就当笑话吧。。况且，这个人似乎已经受到了惩罚，我们还是多给点同情，少给点批评巴。宽容一点拉

新年快乐

nikitavi

以下是引用高握全球在2006-1-27 13:59:00的发言：

can't you read "It's a just a joke. isn't it obvious? ", which Iwrote above clearly.

I said it's a joke.

我说这个是个玩笑，你还在玩笑里struggle, argue。don't you get it? IT IS A JOKE.

什么斯坦福好不好，傲不傲不是Point，point是这writing是个玩笑，can't you get it?

人家开玩笑就是想逗乐，你非要get pissed off。。。。

to be honest, you have two choice,
1. appreciate the beauty of the joke, and have fun
2. throw mud at the literal meaning.

I chose 1, whether or not I got into stanford, cuz I know it's a joke.  you can play smart and do the 2nd choice.   

最后说3点：
1。世界上就是有歧视，你也有

Do you mean discriminations are everywhere, therefore, we should get used to them? If yes, guess you really need to go to Stanford to learn what "compassion and respect to others" means.

2。这个是个玩笑文字，没有必要get serious or personal（当然，你愿意也可以）．有智商的人都知道这个是笑话
3。这个故事是半杯水，你可以觉得是half empty, but I think it's half full.

If you think this is the issue of "half glass of water", I totally agree with you. If you think those who believe the glass is half empty are just not smart enough to appreciate the beauty of the joke, I pity you. Coz you remind me "the frog in the well".

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-1-28 1:43:22编辑过]

nikitavi

以下是引用高握全球在2006-1-27 13:59:00的发言：


还有人说most mbas are assholes。这就好比说有钱人都是坏人，聪明人都小气，不是逻辑有问题，是脑子有问题，严重问题。

any one with above 70 IQ (for Forrest Gump) should know he was not too serious about it. com'on. face it, alright?

It's a just a joke. isn't it obvious? taking offense would be really, really naive. don't make a big fuss of this.

to be honest, you have two choice,
1. appreciate the beauty of the joke, and have fun
2. throw mud at the literal meaning.

And, I don't want to reach an agreement with you at all, so don't try to convince me.

[此贴子已经被作者于2006-1-28 1:42:59编辑过]

bimetallic

以下是引用nikitavi在2006-1-28 1:41:00的发言：

any one with above 70 IQ (for Forrest Gump) should know he was not too serious about it. com'on. face it, alright?

It's a just a joke. isn't it obvious? taking offense would be really, really naive. don't make a big fuss of this.

to be honest, you have two choice,
1. appreciate the beauty of the joke, and have fun
2. throw mud at the literal meaning.

And, I don't want to reach an agreement with you at all, so don't try to convince me.

i think forrest gump's IQ is 75, to be exact. ;o) any point that i'm making? no point. )

hmm

New York Observer: November 24, 1997

Salomon Brothers Tattler Gets Famous on the Web

by Tinker Spitz

Tim Shields, a student at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, spent the summer working as an investment banking summer associate for Salomon Brothers. He didn't like it much. When he got back to Stanford, he wrote two articles about his experiences and published them in The Reporter, a business school publication. No harm done, right?

Wrong. Now, through the magic of the Internet, all of Wall Street is aware of Mr. Shields' complaints. Overworked bankers, chained to their desks, often turn to their computers for entertainment to break up the tedium of creating shareholder profiles and whatever other dreary analyses their clients might demand of them.

Lately, Mr. Shields' bitter article, making the rounds by e-mail, has been that entertainment. Mr. Shields was merciless in his depiction of Salomon Brothers and the people he encountered from other business schools. Here is a line that nicely sums up his impression of his summer: "The 38 members of my Investment Banking Summer Associate class represented a wide range of personality types, from the merely obnoxious to the moderately narcissistic to the overwhelmingly repugnant."

He also makes Salomon Brothers chief executive Deryck Maughan look like either a hypocrite or a fool. In a meeting on Aug. 18 with the investment banking unit, Mr. Shields reports, Mr. Maughan said, "We have absolutely no reason to believe that we are a buyout target, nor that we will be in the near future." Only weeks later, Salomon Brothers was acquired by the Travelers Group Inc. Mr. Shields also remarked on the general climate at Salomon: He writes that a managing director at the firm told him, "Salomon Brothers is just not a culture where anyone says 'please' or 'thank you' or 'good job.'" And, according to the much e-mailed articles, one Salomon vice president told Mr. Shields, "You don't want this job. You really don't want this job. You get sucked in by the money and then find yourself trapped and miserable like I am. Don't be me." Salomon Brothers had no comment on the matter.

The writer was at his most cutting in his assessment of his fellow summer associates, classifying them by school. Those from University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School were, in Mr. Shields' estimation, "boorish and dull, and interacting with them was like being locked in a room with a Bloomberg machine, except that the Bloomberg screen has two dimensions."

Mr. Shields writes that he amused himself by needling the Columbia Business School students with his own feeling of Stanford superiority: "If I was in a truly nasty mood, I would follow up with a discussion hypothesizing on the quality-of-life differences between Palo Alto and Harlem. As you might guess, I wasn't too popular among the Columbia crowd."

His take on those from Northwestern University's J.L. Kellogg Graduate School of Management? "Not the sharpest Ginsu knives in the set, they were as out of place on Wall Street as you might expect from people who'd spent the prior year intensely debating the merits of Dave Thomas appearing in person in the Wendy's commercials."

About those from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School of Management, Mr. Shields writes, "I think I found Waldo. Every stereotype you ever heard about M.I.T. is true. These guys were such incredible weenies, brilliantly managing to combine both the brainpower and social grace of an HP 19B-II."

And the Harvard Business School types? "Floating through the summer like Cinderella at the ball, they expected you to accept their jargon-laced drivel with the same attitude that Moses and his stone tablets received on Sinai."

Mr. Shields' articles first drew the attention of Wall Street when they appeared in the on-line version of The Reporter. Someone (an incensed first-year Salomon Brothers associate, according to a source) downloaded them and attached the following message: "A Stanford student who did not receive an offer from Salomon Brothers was bold enough to put his name in print with these two articles. Maybe he doesn't want a job at all..." Then the associate started e-mailing like crazy, sending the piece to job recruiters, among others, the source said. Mr. Shields' fame on the Web could not have come at a worse time.

Now in the middle of on-campus job interviews, trying to parlay his $80,000 M.B.A. degree into a full-time job, Mr. Shields' only hope is that someone who may well have attended one of the schools he slagged is willing to hire a guy who went gleefully public with a nasty description of life with a previous employer. According to a friend of Mr. Shields, the e-mail has indeed come up in his first four interviews. "They seemed as though they were giving him a chance to explain himself," said the friend, "but when I talked to him, he hadn't heard yet whether he had gotten a call back, which would be the ultimate test of whether they were willing to overlook it." Stanford is most certainly not standing behind its student. "That was a really silly thing for him to do, and not in any way appropriate," said George Parker, director of Stanford's M.B.A. program. "It's just arrogant."

Other business students are aghast. "No one could believe that he would write this and not realize what the ramifications or consequences might be," said one. Mr. Shields would not comment for this article. People who know him said he's a nice guy despite his sharp edges. One friend, Giles Kavanagh, a Web site producer in New York, described Mr. Shields as "very ambitious" and "extraordinarily hard-working," adding, "He disguises his ambition." The son of a New York City police detective, Mr. Shields, now in his mid-20's, attended Regis High School (a Jesuit school on the Upper West Side) and received his undergraduate degree from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. Before going for his M.B.A. at Stanford in 1996, he spent three years in the financial division at J.P. Morgan & Company. "He's always had an interest in making money," Mr. Kavanagh said.

But that may be more difficult now, since the e-mail has apparently fallen into the hands of recruiters. One anonymous friend said that, while Mr. Shields has decided that "investment banking wasn't really for him ... he still didn't mean to get himself blacklisted across Wall Street." The friend added that Mr. Shields is trying to get a job in either private client services, a field related to investment banking, or consulting. Given his bitterness, his ambition, his ability to turn a phrase, his lack of respect for authority and his willingness to squawk about people he has met, perhaps Mr. Shields should consider a career in the glorious field of journalism.