Emory in BW' NEWS & INTERVIEWS

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FEBRUARY 21, 2003
B-SCHOOL Q&A: ADMISSIONS
A Talk with Emory's Admissions DirectorJulie Barefoot of the university's Goizueta Business School on application do's and don'ts
Julie Barefoot, who since 1988 has been director of MBA admissions at Emory University's Goizueta Business School (No. 22 in BusinessWeek's latest B-school rankings), recently spoke with BusinessWeek Online's Brian Hindo about trends in MBA admissions, what types of people are the best fit for Emory -- and surefire ways to get rejected by the school. Here's an edited version of their conversation:

Q: Is your volume of applications up this year?
A: It's up for our one-year program, and even for our two-year program. We're pretty happy about that. Some of our competitors are down, we've heard. My view is, if an admissions officer isn't busy, that's a bad sign. So I like to be busy.

Q: Do you plan to boost the class size above 50 next year?
A: Probably. Certainly, if the quality of the pool is as strong as it has been so far, I can see it growing. But our [small] size is one of our biggest selling points and one of the best attributes of our program. We want it to be small. It might go to 60, but we're not planning on growing to 75 or 80,certainly not in the coming year.

We're very careful about who we enroll, and we want to make sure that we're the right fit for students. [The one-year program is] not for everybody, even people who have a business degree. About a third of the students in our two-year program have undergraduate business degrees and, technically, they couldhave gone to the one-year program if they wanted. But if they're looking to make a career switch, or if they really want a particular summer internship, that program isn't right for them.

Q: Where are Goizueta students from?
A: A lot of students, when they initially apply, might call their residence the Southeast. But that's not where they're from. They might just have lived most recently in D.C. or in Atlanta, Florida, Dallas, places like that.

We draw a lot from New York, New Jersey, and California -- both L.A. and San Francisco. We draw a little from the Midwest, although not too much, [but] this year we have quite a few students from Chicago.

Q: When students talk about what they want to do after the program, are there any industries in particular that stand out?
A: Historically, it would be consulting, followed closely by finance and marketing. Venture capital is increasingly popular, too.

The year before last, about a third of our students went into consulting. We still placed people in consulting this past year, but more went into finance or marketing. That's one of the great things about the MBA degree: It's so flexible.

Q: Mar. 15 is your final admissions round deadline. Is it any harder for final-round applicants to get in than those who applied earlier?
A: Not dramatically. We try to be consistent in the way we look at applications. I know that's a little different from what my colleagues at other schools tell candidates. I will say that it does make a difference to apply by Feb. 1. People won't be considered for some very attractive scholarships if they apply after that date.

Having said that, we have a profile of the student that we want, and who we believe will be successful at Goizueta and be a great alum. So it doesn't hurt someone who may decide near the final deadline.

It has been my experience that every year there are a couple of really outstanding candidates who apply [later than Mar. 15]. Sometimes they have life situations that change. We're happy to work with those candidates.

Q: What makes an applicant a good fit for Emory?
A: A Goizueta student, first and foremost, will have strong interpersonal skills and be a leader. We want to see that they're involved in something outside of themselves.

Now, how that manifests itself [varies]. It may have been when they were in college, because of course most of our candidates have pretty demanding jobs right out of school. But they have been involved in something, and usually they have a passion for that something. It may be athletics or community service -- usually it's a combination. They've been a leader -- maybe elective office, maybe not. But they've made a difference.

A person who fits in well in our community wants to get involved. We are a small program -- we only enroll about 170 students in the two-year program. Yet there are more than 100 different leadership opportunities in all the different clubs, the graduate business association, all these things.

Beyond that, of course we want good communication skills. We interview every candidate. One of the things I'm proud of is that recruiters say our students have exceptional communication skills, and they always say: "You know, these are really nice people. They're really good. They work well in teams. Theyhave a lot of integrity."

Q: How does the interview process work? Do applicants initiate it?
A: More or less it's applicant-driven. Anybody who comes to Atlanta can have an interview any time. We don't require that there be an application on file
We also go to many cities -- all the major ones in the U.S. and a large number outside the U.S. In some cities, there will be a waiting list [for interviews]. For example, when I recruit in Beijing or Shanghai, there are so many requests that we pre-screen them. In some cases, not just anybody can interview. In some cases they're screened.

If we don't go to a city where a candidate is, they have to apply and [be] selected for an interview. In those cases, we do phone interviews.

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Q: What types of interview questions should a prospective student expect?
A: The focus is on gaining a deeper understanding of their work responsibilities, as well as their career progression. It's typical for candidates to have had several jobs by the time they apply, and sometimes it's with different companies -- that's fine. We want to know, maybe, why they changed jobs. How they got their job is always an interesting question, I think. And we also ask what are their key responsibilities. Ultimately, we want to know what will this candidate contribute to class discussions.

Beyond that, we look at interpersonal skills. We want to know their team skills. We want a sense of what role they typically play on a team, how their teammates might describe them. It's a conversation -- we do not want it to be a stress interview. We want them to have a chance to present their best self. So we try to make it a pleasant experience.

We're one of the few schools where the vast majority of interviews are done by a member of the admissions committee. That makes the process more consistent. It also means that the candidate typically has an advocate on the committee.

Q: Where else do Goizueta students apply?
A: The main schools that we cross with are Duke, University of North Carolina, and Wharton. What we often see is that if [students are] interested in finance, for example, they might say Duke, Wharton, Chicago, and us. If they're interested in marketing, they might say Northwestern, Duke, and Michigan,or whatever. And so, depending on what their area of interest is, the third school they apply to is going to change.

We also cross on a regular basis with USC, Dartmouth, Michigan, Georgetown, NYU, Texas. There are times when it's just this wide array. Sometimes it's size -- the student is clearly interested in a small program. In other cases it could be location, or it could be the academic strength.

Q: Have you given any more attention to ethics, either through the interview, through background checks, or anything like that?
A: Definitely. On a pretty regular basis in interviews we ask a question about an ethical dilemma that an applicant has faced. Lately I've noticed that candidates will bring it up. If I interview someone who has worked at a company that has been in the papers of late -- it's sort of like, I can't help myself, I have to ask them [about it]. I'm really interested in their perception of the management. It's very interesting to hear what they have to say. It has definitely had an impact on applicants this year. I think it has changed them.

The applicants are very much interested in the fact that we care a lot about that. One of our core values is integrity. Many of the people who've applied have mentioned that one of the reasons they did was they saw integrity as a core value in our view book.

Q: Your first essay question goes: "List one of your most significant professional or organizational accomplishments. Describe your precise role in this event and how it has helped to shape your management skills." What should applicants stress in their response?
A: I think the most important thing is that it be a relevant, fairly current example. Not that it has to be in the past month or two, I don't mean that. But ideally, it would be something that occurred in their current position within the past year. It should be significant. It should demonstrate thatthey've added value to their organization through whatever they accomplished. We're definitely looking for initiative beyond the basic position or task. What initiative did they show, what leadership did they take?

I understand that they may not have been the leader. They may not be at that level yet in their career. But hopefully, in a group or in an individual effort, they took some leadership and accomplished something.

Q: The second question asks: "What leader (current or historical) has had the biggest impact on your personal leadership style? Please explain at least three key leadership lessons learned from this person." Have you had any surprising answers to this one in the last year?
A: I've seen two types. About half the people chose to write about somebody that is extremely well known. Some names that come to mind are Rudolph Giuliani, quite a few about him. Jimmy Carter -- you get the picture. Some people can pull that off really well. But in some cases, it can be a little trite. It sometimes reads a little bit like a magazine article.

The more powerful ones are about people that we don't know -- a superior, a manager. Those are more powerful because they're more real. Applicants can give very specific examples of what it is about that person's leadership style that was meaningful to them and why they thought it was so important. And, secondly, how it has changed them.

Q: Do you ever get negative examples?
A: Occasionally. But usually they're pretty positive. Some of the choices are a little unusual.

Q: Like what?
A: Well, like Hitler. That was a little frightening.

Q: And that person didn't get in, I assume.
A: You got that right. Definitely did not get in. You can talk about leadership in different ways, but there are things that cross the line.