OG 12 SC 67. 时态后移的问题，看前帖未解~

赤尾屿

Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it
这道题，看了很多帖子，请教一个还是没弄明白的一个问题。关于B选项
今天看Manhattan，里面说
With a past tense reporting verb. move Present to Past. Past to Past Perfect. and Future to Conditional (that is.will to would).
转述动词，从句里的动词时态应该后移。
例：Scientist: The supercollider IS ready, it DID not COST too much, and it WILL PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe."
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.

同理，B选项和上面的例子很类似，看未划线部分they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure...后面的动词也应该后移啊。
既然would就是原形表示虚拟conditional，那放在这样的past tense reporting verb也应该后移变成 would have never been secure...才对啊~
不然这里的would never secure只能理解成will的过去时态，就不是OG所说的虚拟语气了。
求问我的想法错在了哪里呢？
谢谢啊~~~

赤尾屿

自己顶一个~~~
求教啊！！！
纠结在一个问题上是很苦恼的~~~

赤尾屿

是不是主句时态可以和从句时态不同？但是我看的之前的主从时态不同都是因为从句内容是客观真理啊，自然现象啊...
但虚拟语气在从句中保持原来时态还没有看到过。
睡觉之前自己顶一个哇~~
希望明天能看到NN解答~~~
谢谢啦~~

vickyaza

饿~楼主不要想得忒复杂哈。

楼主的想法是很对滴。但是你看这道题的context, B这种表述也是很对的，因为不管是不是conditional, 但是事实是，在20世界的前一半（已经过去的时间里），法国对摩洛哥有了interest，所以对阿尔及利亚的控制就很secure.这个已经是发生的，他要用would在这里也很makes sense.当然你这种表述也对，我个人觉得。

哈哈，好啦语法这种东西就不要太去抠他，特别是在这种选项明确的情况下。

希望对你有帮助。

赤尾屿

饿~楼主不要想得忒复杂哈。

楼主的想法是很对滴。但是你看这道题的context, B这种表述也是很对的，因为不管是不是conditional, 但是事实是，在20世界的前一半（已经过去的时间里），法国对摩洛哥有了interest，所以对阿尔及利亚的控制就很secure.这个已经是发生的，他要用would在这里也很makes sense.当然你这种表述也对，我个人觉得。

哈哈，好啦语法这种东西就不要太去抠他，特别是在这种选项明确的情况下。

希望对你有帮助。

-- by 会员 vickyaza (2012/8/1 5:08:29)

谢谢耐心的解答啊~~~
嗯，从句子意思上面是可以理解楼上说的意思的~~~因为这个作用已经发生了。只是OG的解释说因为是conditonal所以才要用would never be。我才奇怪的。
对比：如果是assume that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure。这个would就很容易懂是体现conditional。
          可是主句时态变化assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure。这时would时态为什么不发生变化，还能体现conditional呢？

sawayisa

额，我个人的理解是：without it与过去事实相反，而后面的their grip on Algeria would never be secure是assumed的动作发生时对未来的情况的主观推测。从而主句是主语+would+do/be。
参考

赤尾屿

额，我个人的理解是：without it与过去事实相反，而后面的their grip on Algeria would never be secure是assumed的动作发生时对未来的情况的主观推测。从而主句是主语+would+do/be。
参考

-- by 会员 sawayisa (2012/8/1 12:22:58)

嗯嗯，“...是assumed的动作发生时对未来的情况的主观推测。从而主句是主语+would+do/be。”好像有些理解了~~~谢谢啊~~~

赤尾屿

后来又看到一个帖子，和我有相同的疑惑~
"would vs. will" - og 12 139

The company announcedthat its profits declined much less in the second quarter than analysts had expected it to and its business will improve in the second half of the year.

(A) had expected it to and its business will improve

(B) had expected and that its businesswouldimprove

(C) expected it would and that it will improve its business

(D) expected them to and its business would improve

(E) expected and that it will have improved its business
Answer: B

在Og 的解释中：“The sentence must also use would rather than will for the company’s uncertain business improvement  in the future.”
后面大N的解释，就是说一方面因为主句是过去式，从句就必须是一般过去式以及之前的时态。同时这个would又有表示conditional的意思。所以双管齐下，作用于此，使得必须是would.
至于为什么不时态后移呢？我苦思冥想，觉得Manhattan说past tense reporting verb要时态后移，这里的assume不能是past tense reporting verb，只要保证从句不比主句超前就可以了，不用时态后移。
既然两道题都出现这样的用法：即主句为过去时态，从句为would do。那么GMAT就非常认同这种用法，虽然在过去时态里，would do仍然表示这conditional。
不知道这样理解对么？

babybearmm

Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it
这道题，看了很多帖子，请教一个还是没弄明白的一个问题。关于B选项
今天看Manhattan，里面说
With a past tense reporting verb. move Present to Past. Past to Past Perfect. and Future to Conditional (that is.will to would).
转述动词，从句里的动词时态应该后移。
例：Scientist: The supercollider IS ready, it DID not COST too much, and it WILL PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe."
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.

同理，B选项和上面的例子很类似，看未划线部分they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure...后面的动词也应该后移啊。
既然would就是原形表示虚拟conditional，那放在这样的past tense reporting verb也应该后移变成 would have never been secure...才对啊~
不然这里的would never secure只能理解成will的过去时态，就不是OG所说的虚拟语气了。
求问我的想法错在了哪里呢？
谢谢啊~~~

-- by 会员 赤尾屿 (2012/7/31 22:44:16)

1. 你给的Manhattan书上的例子很对，恰恰说明B选项是正确的。
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.
they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure...


2. 虚拟语气叫做subjunctive mood. 这里的"would never be"和"would provide"叫做conditional tense （详见Glossary）。
subjunctive mood和conditional tense是两回事，有交集但不相等，不要混为一谈。详见Manhattan verb那一章。

babybearmm

Scientist: The supercollider IS ready, it DID not COST too much, and it WILL PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe."
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.



Assumption at present: without it their grip on Algeria will never be secure.
They assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure.


注意OG第一段的解释，说这叫past condition的结构。

Affording strategic proximity to the Strait of Gibraltar, Morocco was also of interest to the French throughout the first half of the twentieth century because they assumed that if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure.
(A) if they did not hold it, their grip on Algeria was always insecure
(B) without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure
(C) their grip on Algeria was not ever secure if they did not hold it
(D) without that, they could never be secure about their grip on Algeria
(E) never would their grip on Algeria be secure if they did not hold it
这道题，看了很多帖子，请教一个还是没弄明白的一个问题。关于B选项
今天看Manhattan，里面说
With a past tense reporting verb. move Present to Past. Past to Past Perfect. and Future to Conditional (that is.will to would).
转述动词，从句里的动词时态应该后移。
例：Scientist: The supercollider IS ready, it DID not COST too much, and it WILL PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe."
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.

同理，B选项和上面的例子很类似，看未划线部分they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure...后面的动词也应该后移啊。
既然would就是原形表示虚拟conditional，那放在这样的past tense reporting verb也应该后移变成 would have never been secure...才对啊~
不然这里的would never secure只能理解成will的过去时态，就不是OG所说的虚拟语气了。
求问我的想法错在了哪里呢？
谢谢啊~~~

-- by 会员 赤尾屿 (2012/7/31 22:44:16)

1. 你给的Manhattan书上的例子很对，恰恰说明B选项是正确的。
The scientist ANNOUNCED that the supercollider WAS ready, that it HAD not COST too much, and that it WOULD PROVIDE new insights into the workings of the universe.
they assumed that without it their grip on Algeria would never be secure...


2. 虚拟语气叫做subjunctive mood. 这里的"would never be"和"would provide"叫做conditional tense （详见Glossary）。
subjunctive mood和conditional tense是两回事，有交集但不相等，不要混为一谈。详见Manhattan verb那一章。

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/8/1 16:16:35)