PREP 08 TEST1-191 关于such的问题

zhongshanlh

看了所有的关于这个问题的帖子，还是没有弄明白，因此发帖求助，望各位TX NN解惑191.
The loan companyannounced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of theirnot paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprimelending market.
A.    of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.    of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.    of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.    that they do not pay back their loans on time,    
E.     that they do not payback their loans on time, such a group
OA：B
疑问，关于E中such 用法的错误
CD论坛中所有涉及到这个问题的帖子如下：
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-590940-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-580267-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-515227-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-371566-3-1.html
Ron的解释如下：
as long as you mentionsome specific "X" earlier in the sentence, then "such an X"is fine, yes.
another example:
i have no problem with using a standard geometry textbook; indeed, sucha book is helpful in providing ready-made sets of practice problems.
--> "such a book" is legitimate because the sentence has mentioneda particular book (namely, a standard geometry textbook).
我的疑问：我明白such + noun的话，那么这个noun或者这个noun所指代的事物必须在such之前的句子中出现，但是在这个题目中The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records 中这个borrowers不就是后面的这个group所来代指的内容么？那么such的使用为啥就不对了啊？？（有些解释说such必须genthat连用就太牵强了吧）
求解惑

zhongshanlh

半夜up一下

howie0420

这道题的问题是with，with没必要出现

zhongshanlh

up

teddybearj4

我也不是太懂这里Prep笔记上"无指代"的说法，such a group应该就是指代前面的borrower是没错的，但是我觉得E的本质问题应该是同位语不能用such a group，只能用a group去修饰的。因为同位语通常都是前面出现过的名词的一种解释。such a group里面的such是个限定词，这样子这个group就变成特指了。

记得OG12-Q88题 Thelonious Monk, the jazz pianist and composer, produced a body of work that was rooted in the stride-piano tradition of Willie and Duke, yet in many ways he stood apart from the mainstream jazz repertory. 这里错是因为the要改成a，正确选项是把整个同位语变成定语Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk.

这里E我觉得把同位语改掉的话句子也应该正确。
The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records that they do not pay back their loans on time. Such a group iscollectively known as the subprime lending market.


给几个找到的such作限定词的正确句子：
Among the objects found in the excavated temple were small terra-cotta effigies left by supplicants who were either asking the goddess Bona Dea's aid in healing physical and mental ills or thanking her for such help.


198. (GWD-1-3) Past assessments of the Brazilian rain forest have used satellite images to tally deforested areas, where farmers and ranchers have clear-cut and burned all the trees, but such work has not addressed either logging, which removes only selected trees, or surface fires that burn down individual trees but do not denude the forest.

107.Galileo did not invent the telescope, but on hearing, in 1609, that such an optical instrument had been made, he quickly built his own device from an organ pipe and spectacle lenses.

zhongshanlh

嗯，从逻辑含义层面上我还没想通，但是觉得“such a group里面的such是个限定词，这样子这个group就变成特指了。”这句说的有道理。再思考一下。

我也不是太懂这里Prep笔记上"无指代"的说法，such a group应该就是指代前面的borrower是没错的，但是我觉得E的本质问题应该是同位语不能用such a group，只能用a group去修饰的。因为同位语通常都是前面出现过的名词的一种解释。such a group里面的such是个限定词，这样子这个group就变成特指了。

记得OG12-Q88题 Thelonious Monk, the jazz pianist and composer, produced a body of work that was rooted in the stride-piano tradition of Willie and Duke, yet in many ways he stood apart from the mainstream jazz repertory. 这里错是因为the要改成a，正确选项是把整个同位语变成定语Jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk.

这里E我觉得把同位语改掉的话句子也应该正确。
The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records that they do not pay back their loans on time. Such a group iscollectively known as the subprime lending market.


给几个找到的such作限定词的正确句子：
Among the objects found in the excavated temple were small terra-cotta effigies left by supplicants who were either asking the goddess Bona Dea's aid in healing physical and mental ills or thanking her for such help.


198. (GWD-1-3) Past assessments of the Brazilian rain forest have used satellite images to tally deforested areas, where farmers and ranchers have clear-cut and burned all the trees, but such work has not addressed either logging, which removes only selected trees, or surface fires that burn down individual trees but do not denude the forest.

107.Galileo did not invent the telescope, but on hearing, in 1609, that such an optical instrument had been made, he quickly built his own device from an organ pipe and spectacle lenses.

-- by 会员 teddybearj4 (2012/5/11 11:49:06)

zhongshanlh

再顶，这里这个such a group不能做同位语的问题 到底是因为什么？

zhongshanlh

up

babybearmm

看了所有的关于这个问题的帖子，还是没有弄明白，因此发帖求助，望各位TX NN解惑191.
The loan companyannounced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of theirnot paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprimelending market.
A.    of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.    of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.    of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.    that they do not pay back their loans on time,    
E.     that they do not payback their loans on time, such a group
OA：B
疑问，关于E中such 用法的错误
CD论坛中所有涉及到这个问题的帖子如下：
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-590940-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-580267-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-515227-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-371566-3-1.html
Ron的解释如下：
as long as you mentionsome specific "X" earlier in the sentence, then "such an X"is fine, yes.
another example:
i have no problem with using a standard geometry textbook; indeed, sucha book is helpful in providing ready-made sets of practice problems.
--> "such a book" is legitimate because the sentence has mentioneda particular book (namely, a standard geometry textbook).

Ron给的这个例句，"such a book"中的"such"有for example的意思，我觉得相当于"A book such as the fore-mentioned book"
但英语里通常不会像我刚才这么说，太繁琐了，而直接说"such a book"，但意思就是我那么说的"such as"这个意思

那么回到原句，如果你说"such a group"，就是指前面所述的group是known as "the subprime lending market"的一个特例。而如果用同位语，那就说这个group本身known as "the subprime lending market"

所以，语法上没错，如Ron所说，只要你前面提到某个特定的book，你就可以说"such a book" bla bla. 不过意思上，"such a group"和同位语的"a group"是有区别的。

这题我个人觉得前面那个split更明显，就是of not paying back their loan on time，而不是" that they do not payback their loans on time". "do not payback"时态严重错误，用records of doing sth很精确的表达了意思。

我的疑问：我明白such + noun的话，那么这个noun或者这个noun所指代的事物必须在such之前的句子中出现，但是在这个题目中The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records 中这个borrowers不就是后面的这个group所来代指的内容么？那么such的使用为啥就不对了啊？？（有些解释说such必须genthat连用就太牵强了吧）
求解惑

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/5/10 23:30:30)

winy

这里的a group不是指borrowers，而是指前面的贷款公司借款给那些不能及时还款的人而形成的市场。所以不能用such来指代，因为前面没有确切提到这个事物，而是作者在描述完以后deduce出来的一个新事物。