og13-114 starfish，with。。。求拍砖指教！！！

lalapiao

Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating

这道题已经问过一次，但好像还没有得出最后解释。我的疑问是为什么C的by不可以？在gmatclub中
A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and--- ]it seems as if the plural starfish is pronouned by the first, singular it; in addition in an active voice sentence, the use of by is improper

B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and ------- seems ok with the SV problem avoided altogether. Here the it should logically refer to the arm. correct choice

C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating, -----use of by is improper in an active voice setting. It should be with the animal rather than by the animal; overcompensating, growing is importer co-ordination. There should be an and in between

D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,’---use of they means that the starfish themselves are replaced; over compensating should be followed by and

E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating, ---in a passive voice we need to use by rather than with ; in addition overcompensating should be followed by and
1.这里不是说被动中不适合用with吗？而正确答案就是用的with，by和with的问题有些迷惑，求指教！！
2.我选的是E，因为觉得sometimes可以和growing从句一起修饰前面的it is quickly replaced。求拍砖！！

peby1223

这道题我也错选了C，我觉得大家说得好乱，其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思：如果丢掉一只手臂A，那么会另长出一只手臂来代替A，有时，这个动物（starfish）会过渡补偿，即额外长出一条手臂B来。
C选项意思：他们丢掉了一只手臂A，有时是通过过渡补偿并额外长出一只手臂的方法来长出一只代替手臂A的手臂

即原句是可能出来手臂A和手臂B两只手臂，C选项怎么算都是只有一只手臂A。

不知道我这样说能否理解！

琳二

理解了半天，终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说，如果starfish的一只手臂A lost，那么会很快被复原（因为他有超强的再生能力），但伴随着失掉的手臂A被复原，会出现过度补偿的后果，即在补偿了手臂A之后，多长出来一两只。而C选项则扭曲了文义，把过度补偿作为了复原手臂A的方法，而且是sometimes by这个方法，那么也就是说sometimes还有其他方法来复原。所以综上，应该选B。

自己的理解哈，不晓得大家看得懂不，欢迎拍砖，欢迎探讨

wxtttt

个人觉得BY和WITH在这里用法都正确，GMAT论坛上说BY不适合用在主动句中，这跟WITH不适合用在被动句中一样，都是臆想的。
BY用在主动句中PREP的例子有一打，表通过什么方法。
至于WITH为什么不适合用于被动句，个人觉得是因为WITH修饰的是主谓，逻辑主语不合适。
但with有时是不需要要逻辑主语的，这样想更好：in general, "COMMA + prep phrase modifier" is an adverbial modifier, meaning that it modifies the entirety of the preceding clause.

C的错误点应该是 overcompensating和growing的关系混乱，这里是comma + ving的结构，直接跳过non-modifier修饰前面的they... it。至于overcompensating和growing xxx 是不是两种能力还不清楚，因为and可以表示cause-and-effect relationship，并不是说这两个就是两个东西。从字面来看我觉得是一个东西，只是根据结构来看，CDE使用的结构不好。

这道题的句意理解：the animal 指代 starfish，所以这就是为什么sometimes可以插入animal 和 overcompensating之间

===


求讨论！

cegret

1.with和by的区别：
(1) 做某事时通过什么方法或手段用by：do something by (doing) something。
(2) 表示使用有形工具时，通常用with来表示：write with a pen, see with naked eyes, strike with a hammar
(3) 作”用”讲时，by和with的区别在于：with表示行为动作的工具，后面的名词一般要有冠词；by表示动作的手段，后面的名词一律不用冠词。

本题的B中的with应该是一个独立主格结构，表达伴随状态，修饰前面主谓宾结构

窝窝wooo

AresMa 发表于 2013-10-24 17:28
我觉得根本是从意思上解决问题。

要知道somtimes在compensating之前。所以后面半句我认为是表明一种特殊情 ...

同意！               

coco700+

个人感觉是因为C选择 ,sometimes by the animal overcompensating, 这个结构构成插入语，那么插入语向前修饰的是it，即被替换掉的手臂，显然是不合理的，这个overcompensating和growing应该是并列修饰replace的方式，所以肯定要放在一起。

Crustmaster

观点总结于manhattan SC书籍 & RON的发言：
any “comma -ing” structures are adverbial modifiers.
（修饰latest action or the whole clause，不修饰plain noun。 To express the meaning of purpose, result or simultaneous action of 被修饰成分）

观点1：有时comma -ing放在句首时看起来在修饰它所adherent的句子or短语的主语，但其实修饰的是整个句子。时刻记住comma -ing不能修饰plain noun，不可能做定语。

（RIGHT，exhausted修饰的是主句的整个信息）Exhausted by her work, she bought an expensive ice-cream.
（WRONG，exhausted如果可以作定语修饰she的话，那么这句话就是对的，但是很遗憾GMAT不这样认为。Exhausted只能是修饰后面的整个句子，而这样则illogical，所以这个句子是错误的）Exhausted by her work, she has a red hair.

观点2：(From Ron，搜索T945，在manhattan网站可以看到)：'comma _ing' modifies the closest action. e.g( both of these sentences work in the same way): ①A drunk driver drove his car into a storefront, causing several hundred thousand dollars' worth of damages. ②A verdict is due today in the trial of a drunk driver who drove his car into a storefront, causing several hundred thousand dollars' worth of damages.

（PS: when modifiers modify actions, they just modify the closest action, regardless of whether that action is actually a verb. e.g.: ①I made weird expressions with my mouth and fingers, scaring the babies. ②My sister saw me making weird expressions with my mouth and fingers, scaring the babies. both of these sentences are ok, and both of them work in exactly the same way. the fact that ""making"" isn't grammatically a verb doesn't make any difference ）

Crustmaster

琳二 发表于 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天，终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说，如果starfish的一只手臂A lost，那 ...

同意！               

典座

我记得Ron在Manhattan里说过，growing的句子是修饰前面的动词，而如果前面是overcompensating的话，就变成了一个verb-ing句子修饰另一个verb-ing句子，这样在gmat里是不允许的。这样就直接排除了BCD。

AMBER513

主谓一致的话CDE都要排除的

Heron

我觉得C还有一个错误点是，海星不是自己replace手臂的，不是海星拿着一条手臂给自己安手臂，而应该是是手臂断了的那里自己恢复的，所以这个replace的主语应该是手臂自己，不是海星。但是还有一个问题，可以把and和逗号当成一个排除点吗

Charlotte_xas

我理解这里overcompensating和grwoing是并列关系：
如果用逗号连接的话，growing...会变成overcompensating的modifier，growing...表示overcompensating的结果。也就是只有overcompensate一种方法来replace
如果用and连接的话表示有两种不同的方法来replace(overcompensating或者growing）

斯洛

李青鱼 发表于 2018-1-29 17:46
growing 作为participle modifier修饰，有两种，一种是作为前面句子的结果发生，一种是伴随主句的谓语动作 ...

正解