og12，sc-3中查遍全站3个问题存在分歧，热烈讨论中~期待更多CDers参与讨论，欢迎大家补充~！！

ainiAnnie

3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study
(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study
(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and critics began to seriously study
(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying

CD上关于这道题的所有解释都查了，没有定论，Manhattan之类的国外网站也查了，没有权威人士解答（现在开国外网站特别慢！！各种刷新！！要不要这要啊！！%>_<%）百家争鸣，特别疑惑…

A 选项的错误理解了，until almost 1900所处的位置既可以修饰前面的动词也可以修饰后面的。

B时态错误

C选项，og 的解释是The sequence of infinitives (to begin seriously
to study) is awkward and wordy.

我自己一直的理解是两个不定式GMAC是不喜欢同时连用的，可是查帖时，有CDer解释说不定式之间不可以加入其他元素，也就是这里的问题是出在中间加了seriously，表困惑，求NN解答。Q1

D选项，og的解释是:Not almost until is a nonsensical sequence of
modifiers.
现有两种解释版本：not until 不可以分来，即almost的插入有问题；not 既可以修饰前也可以修饰后。
求NN拍砖Q2

E选项，特别不情愿选E选项，我记得Manhattan上说过GMAT不喜欢强调句…
如果C选项的错误都改正，是不是用倒装更好点？？？Q3

共3个问题，呼唤baby姐姐，superbat，各种NN，各位CDers！！！！！极度困惑！！！！

justsmile

看大牛们讨论感觉真好

jorsendon

好贴

poyollll

好贴！

ainiAnnie

Step one: read the original sentence quickly, with only one intention: to grab the intended meaning. Don't hunt for errors!

Now read:
"3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages."

What does the sentence say?

It says (in my own words):
Although a bunch of 18/19th century scholars had done something related to Native American poetry,
almost 1900, scholars began seriously to study it (Native American poetry).

Question: What's the scope of this sentence?
Answer: the study of "Native American poetry"

That is what I said, the study is the scope of the sentence, just like "learning permutation and combination" is the scope of today's math class.
Therefore, we MUST say "began studying", not "began to study".


Ron gave an example:
"My plan for making money is to sell my clothes."

What's the scope of this sentence?
This sentence is talking about the plan - "making money"

Therefore, we should say: "my plan for making money", not "my plan to make money"

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 7:33:53)

我貌似理解baby姐姐的意思了...
这句话的意思：Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works， it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native language.
尽管18,19世纪的美国诗人声称自己对美国本土诗歌很感兴趣，并且在他们自己的作品中假装模仿这种形式，但是直到1900年那些学者和评论家们才开始关于本土语言的研究学习
本句中的studying偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope，而非动作。可以这么理解么？？

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/25 7:51:32)

Exactly!!!

同理那个Manhattan的例子

A technique for alleviating pain
"偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope"   我们提到的是一种与alleviating pain相关的technique（也就是说这个technique能够帮助实现"alleviating pain"），并不一定是这个technique直接去alleviate pain.

A technique to alleviate pain
"to alleviate pain" is the "action" (here the direct effect) that the technique does.  
(就好像"to look at a simple problem"是数学老师带领我们将要做的动作。)
但是否能实现"alleviating pain"呢？不一定。只是说"to alleviate pain".

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 8:12:40)

啊哈哈，总算理解了~~
谢谢baby、姐姐耐心解释~~
真是不太好意思，一样的问题要baby姐姐讲了好多遍.......
真替自己捏了把冷汗....

zhongshanlh

琢磨了琢磨，觉得这个studying更偏向于一种名词性质的内容，也就是说这个studying之他们的一个goal，他们的目标是要把这个本土诗歌研究清楚，而不单单只是发出一个study一个动作（就是说从句意角度来看，studying更加合理），另外studying可以有很多形式，比如模仿诗歌的句式、运用本土诗歌中的修辞等等具体内容，所以从这个角度说，也是studying更加合理...
不知道这样理解是否在点上了...

Step one: read the original sentence quickly, with only one intention: to grab the intended meaning. Don't hunt for errors!

Now read:
"3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages."

What does the sentence say?

It says (in my own words):
Although a bunch of 18/19th century scholars had done something related to Native American poetry,
almost 1900, scholars began seriously to study it (Native American poetry).

Question: What's the scope of this sentence?
Answer: the study of "Native American poetry"

That is what I said, the study is the scope of the sentence, just like "learning permutation and combination" is the scope of today's math class.
Therefore, we MUST say "began studying", not "began to study".


Ron gave an example:
"My plan for making money is to sell my clothes."

What's the scope of this sentence?
This sentence is talking about the plan - "making money"

Therefore, we should say: "my plan for making money", not "my plan to make money"

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 7:33:53)

我貌似理解baby姐姐的意思了...
这句话的意思：Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works， it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native language.
尽管18,19世纪的美国诗人声称自己对美国本土诗歌很感兴趣，并且在他们自己的作品中假装模仿这种形式，但是直到1900年那些学者和评论家们才开始关于本土语言的研究学习
本句中的studying偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope，而非动作。可以这么理解么？？

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/25 7:51:32)

Exactly!!!

同理那个Manhattan的例子

A technique for alleviating pain
"偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope"   我们提到的是一种与alleviating pain相关的technique（也就是说这个technique能够帮助实现"alleviating pain"），并不一定是这个technique直接去alleviate pain.

A technique to alleviate pain
"to alleviate pain" is the "action" (here the direct effect) that the technique does.  
(就好像"to look at a simple problem"是数学老师带领我们将要做的动作。)
但是否能实现"alleviating pain"呢？不一定。只是说"to alleviate pain".

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 8:12:40)

babybearmm

Step one: read the original sentence quickly, with only one intention: to grab the intended meaning. Don't hunt for errors!

Now read:
"3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages."

What does the sentence say?

It says (in my own words):
Although a bunch of 18/19th century scholars had done something related to Native American poetry,
almost 1900, scholars began seriously to study it (Native American poetry).

Question: What's the scope of this sentence?
Answer: the study of "Native American poetry"

That is what I said, the study is the scope of the sentence, just like "learning permutation and combination" is the scope of today's math class.
Therefore, we MUST say "began studying", not "began to study".


Ron gave an example:
"My plan for making money is to sell my clothes."

What's the scope of this sentence?
This sentence is talking about the plan - "making money"

Therefore, we should say: "my plan for making money", not "my plan to make money"

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 7:33:53)

我貌似理解baby姐姐的意思了...
这句话的意思：Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works， it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native language.
尽管18,19世纪的美国诗人声称自己对美国本土诗歌很感兴趣，并且在他们自己的作品中假装模仿这种形式，但是直到1900年那些学者和评论家们才开始关于本土语言的研究学习
本句中的studying偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope，而非动作。可以这么理解么？？

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/25 7:51:32)

Exactly!!!

同理那个Manhattan的例子

A technique for alleviating pain
"偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope"   我们提到的是一种与alleviating pain相关的technique（也就是说这个technique能够帮助实现"alleviating pain"），并不一定是这个technique直接去alleviate pain.

A technique to alleviate pain
"to alleviate pain" is the "action" (here the direct effect) that the technique does.  
(就好像"to look at a simple problem"是数学老师带领我们将要做的动作。)
但是否能实现"alleviating pain"呢？不一定。只是说"to alleviate pain".

ainiAnnie

Step one: read the original sentence quickly, with only one intention: to grab the intended meaning. Don't hunt for errors!

Now read:
"3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages."

What does the sentence say?

It says (in my own words):
Although a bunch of 18/19th century scholars had done something related to Native American poetry,
almost 1900, scholars began seriously to study it (Native American poetry).

Question: What's the scope of this sentence?
Answer: the study of "Native American poetry"

That is what I said, the study is the scope of the sentence, just like "learning permutation and combination" is the scope of today's math class.
Therefore, we MUST say "began studying", not "began to study".


Ron gave an example:
"My plan for making money is to sell my clothes."

What's the scope of this sentence?
This sentence is talking about the plan - "making money"

Therefore, we should say: "my plan for making money", not "my plan to make money"

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/25 7:33:53)

我貌似理解baby姐姐的意思了...
这句话的意思：Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works， it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying traditional Native American poetry in native language.
尽管18,19世纪的美国诗人声称自己对美国本土诗歌很感兴趣，并且在他们自己的作品中假装模仿这种形式，但是直到1900年那些学者和评论家们才开始关于本土语言的研究学习
本句中的studying偏向一种名词性质，介绍这句话的scope，而非动作。可以这么理解么？？

babybearmm

Step one: read the original sentence quickly, with only one intention: to grab the intended meaning. Don't hunt for errors!

Now read:
"3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry andhad pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages."

What does the sentence say?

It says (in my own words):
Although a bunch of 18/19th century scholars had done something related to Native American poetry,
almost 1900, scholars began seriously the study of it (Native American poetry).

Question: What's the scope of this sentence?
Answer: the study of "Native American poetry"

That is what I said, the study is the scope of the sentence, just as "learning permutation and combination" is the scope of today's math class.
Therefore, we MUST say "began studying", not "began to study".


Ron gave an example:
"My plan for making money is to sell my clothes."

What's the scope of this sentence?
This sentence is talking about the plan - "making money"

Therefore, we should say: "my plan for making money", not "my plan to make money"

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

ainiAnnie

我真的没印象M有提。。。这个问题，我是听了baby姐给的那个Ron的study hall的连接以后明白了这个-ing与to do在表示goal和action上的区别，但是具体到这个题目中，我却想的不是很明白根据什么判断study不能使表示他们真真正正做的第一个action，求指导。。。。

哈哈。。谢谢提醒呢，，，，我真给忘掉了。。。。赶紧翻一下去。。。
Annie对于我问baby姐姐那个问题你怎么看呢？我不太明白根据什么来判断to do这个动作不能是他们真真正正发出的动作，而必须应为理解为是他们的final goal？

are you sure about it??"to be" is banned in the GMAT?

弱弱地问，sb. be to do本就有准备做某事的意思，再插个begin是不是意思就重复了，所以wordy?

另外，是不是类似于begin to do, begin doing的结构是不能被拆开的（纯属臆测）？也就是说seriously修饰begin的话就放到begin前面，修饰study的话就放到study后面？

-- by 会员 02021988 (2012/4/22 6:53:18)

用be to去表示future time，在GMAT中是禁止的。
可以直接排出了。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/23 21:01:40)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 14:31:09)

Manhattan是这么说的。。。

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 16:17:14)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 16:59:03)

关于这个问题呢，小M上也有，你也可以查一下，自己以前不理解，昨天又看了下~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 17:40:36)

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 19:00:01)

额，我又仔细看了一下，我不确定自己的理解对不对额。。。建议你去查一下小M上的这个例子：
A technique alleviating pain is growing popular.
A technique to alleviate pain is growing popular.
看看是否有启发...这个问题我再想想~

-- by 会员 ainiAnnie (2012/4/24 19:32:49)

AnnieMM，我看了小M，在P253，我们讨论的这个begin to do与begin doing与小M中这两个例子略有差别哦~begin doing中的doing是gerund，而A technique alleviating pain is growing popular,中这个alleviating是个participle，所以不太一样吧？

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/4/24 20:45:07)

对啊，我有点混了，但是不定式的主语不一定出现在句子中...不知道了哎..迷惑。。。