【捉急】几个with+n.+that的结构的题目，open to discuz！

plainn

在prep08 155下面的补充说明里（英文）说，独立主格是修饰整个句子，而不是某个词语
而且with型的独立主格结构和主句是有紧密的逻辑关系的

第一个问题：那么with型的独立主格结构有逻辑主语吗？如何判定逻辑主语？是主句主语吗？

然后是PREP笔记里面的知识点：

注意点：独立主格并不包括“with + n. + 定语从句”和“n. + 定语从句”的形式，这个形式做的是非限定性修饰前面名词的定语，因为这个形式就相当于n, with + n.，或者是n., n. + that概括性同位语。

问题是从这道题目的解释开始的。。
191. (GWD-10-Q24)For the last five years the Dutch economy hasgrown faster than Britain,France, or Germany, withthe unemployment rate having remained well below that of the other threecountries.  
A.      Britain, France,or Germany,with the unemployment rate having remained
B.      havethose of Britain, France, or Germany, and the unemployment rateremaining
C.       have Britain,France, and Germany, andthe unemployment rate has remained
D.       the economy of Britain,France, and Germany, withthe unemployment rate that has remained (E)
E.       theeconomies of Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment ratehas remained
答案是E

Aeoluseros NN对D的看法：首先D最大的错误仅进在于后面with引导的伴随状语的逻辑主语Dutcheconomy错误
我的理解是此处的逻辑主语应该是Dutch而不是Dutch economy

第二个问题：with+n+that这种非独立主格结构也需要有逻辑主语？也是主句主语？

193. (T-3-Q2)

As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed,staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
A.      As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, thisresults in the act of stinging causing
B.      As the heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
C.      Thehoneybee’s stinger, heavily barbed and staying where it is inserted, results inthe fact that the act of stinging causes
D.       The heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stayswhere it is inserted, and results in the act of stinging causing      
E.       Thehoneybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
答案是E，此处也是with+n+that的非独立主格结构

第三个问题来了，那么这里的逻辑主语是谁呢？难道是honeybee’s stinger吗？不是与上一题的解释矛盾了吗？

T-3-Q19.

A Swiss government panel recommended that the countrysell about half of its gold reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that do the same and inundate the market.

A.     reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that

B.     reserves, which, as a result, raised fearsof other countries that

C.     reserves, as a result, they feared thatother countries would

D.     reserves, with fears raised that othercountries would

E.      reserves, raising fears thatother countries

此题答案选E，我选了D——是因为上一题留给我的印象使然。虽然我知道E选项里raising...可以做伴随状语表结果，但是我认为这里would是必要的，因为other counties do the same and inundate the market是一种fear，是推测发生的事情

不知道D选项错在哪儿了？难道又是因为逻辑主语？？

这个with结构迷惑我好多天了。。。。望CDer热心解答！！！！！

gxcgy

同想知道

wangjieava23

顶顶。大家看看呀

wangjieava23

在prep08 155下面的补充说明里（英文）说，独立主格是修饰整个句子，而不是某个词语
而且with型的独立主格结构和主句是有紧密的逻辑关系的

第一个问题：那么with型的独立主格结构有逻辑主语吗？如何判定逻辑主语？是主句主语吗？
我想把这个问题变成两问：1. 是不是所有with+noun+ved/ving 都是独立主格？其他形式with+noun算不算独立主格？或者with独立主格这种说法本身就有问题？
                                 2. 什么时候with+noun+ved/ving 需要逻辑主语与主句主语一致，什么时候不需要与主语主语一致？

答1: 我挺困惑这个问题的。我看manhattan语法书上说，我只是找到了absolute phrase 这个语法术语，但是这个语法没有包括with，只是“mian clause, noun that...”这样的语法结构。而beatlegmat, manhattan论坛上，对于with的用法也主要集中在它是一个propositional phrase, 可以作为adverb modifier 修饰preceding clause，或者修饰verb。我查查关于with独立主格这种说法，应该是来自国内的语法知识，但是基于gmat只考gmat语法，我对with独立主格这样说法很质疑。

答2: with+noun(ved/ving，以及其他形式，我都归结为修饰语）什么时候都要判断逻辑主语的。with在句首引导原因状语，需要与主句主语一致；做adjective modifier时，可以找到名词；做adver modifier时，也可以找到preceding clause, 或preceding verb.

然后是PREP笔记里面的知识点：

注意点：独立主格并不包括“with + n. + 定语从句”和“n. + 定语从句”的形式，这个形式做的是非限定性修饰前面名词的定语，因为这个形式就相当于n, with + n.，或者是n., n. + that概括性同位语。

问题是从这道题目的解释开始的。。
191. (GWD-10-Q24)
For the last five years the Dutch economy has grown faster than Britain,France, or Germany, with the unemployment rate having remained well below that of the other threecountries.
A.Britain, France,or Germany,with the unemployment rate having remained
B.havethose of Britain, France, or Germany, and the unemployment rateremaining
C.have Britain,France, and Germany, andthe unemployment rate has remained
D.the economy of Britain,France, and Germany, with the unemployment rate that has remained (E)
E.theeconomies of Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment rate has remained
答案是E

Aeoluseros NN对D的看法：首先D最大的错误仅进在于后面with引导的伴随状语的逻辑主语Dutcheconomy错误
我的理解是此处的逻辑主语应该是Dutch而不是Dutch economy

我也觉得逻辑主语是Dutch economy. 总之，with的弹跳力很好，这里已经是在修饰前句主语了。

第二个问题：with+n+that这种非独立主格结构也需要有逻辑主语？也是主句主语？

193. (T-3-Q2)

As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed,staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
A.As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, thisresults in the act of stinging causing
B.As the heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
C.Thehoneybee’s stinger, heavily barbed and staying where it is inserted, results inthe fact that the act of stinging causes
D.The heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stayswhere it is inserted, and results in the act of stinging causing      
E.Thehoneybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
答案是E，此处也是with+n+that的非独立主格结构

这里的with a result, prositional phrase, as an adverb modifier, 修饰前句。虽然这个句子不是大家一直说with+noun+ving/ved这样“独立主格”，但是我在意思上怎么觉得更接近manhattan书上的 absolute phrase.


第三个问题来了，那么这里的逻辑主语是谁呢？难道是honeybee’s stinger吗？不是与上一题的解释矛盾了吗？

T-3-Q19.

A Swiss government panel recommended that the country sell about half of its gold reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that do the same and inundate the market.

A.reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that

B.reserves, which, as a result, raised fearsof other countries that

C.reserves, as a result, they feared thatother countries would
D.reserves, with fears raised that other countries would
E.reserves, raising fears that other countries would

此题答案选E，我选了D——是因为上一题留给我的印象使然。虽然我知道E选项里raising...可以做伴随状语表结果，但是我认为这里would是必要的，因为other counties do the same and inundate the market是一种fear，是推测发生的事情

不知道D选项错在哪儿了？难道又是因为逻辑主语？？

关于D，raised需要去掉吧。
A Swiss government panel recommened that the country sell about half of its gold reserves, with fears that other countries would do the same and inundate the market.
with的逻辑主语是： A Swiss government panel.
这句话的意思是：这个government panel 提建议的时候，伴随着某种担心。是panel在担心。

A Swiss goverment panel recommened that the country sell about half of its gold reserves, raising fears that other countries would do the same and inundate the market.
这句话的意思是：这个government panel 提出一个建议。提建议这个动作造成一个结果，引发了什么什么担心。

同时，HOSEPIPE BANS affecting 20 million households in southern and eastern England have come into force, with fears that restrictions may have to be toughened in coming months because of severe shortages.
The Chinese government required Sina and Tencent to temporarily disable commenting functions on their microblogs, with fears that web users may spread political rumors following the sidelining of Bo Xilai.

第一句话，我真没有看懂，能帮我解释解释吗？是谁在担心呀？感觉这个句子有些类似，honey bee 这道题，但是我不是很吃得准。第二句话，很像第三题，可以说with fears 的逻辑主语是The Chinese goverment.


...........................................................................
总结一下吧，honey bee 这题的with是修饰前句；其余两题，with也是修饰前句，但是与前句主语有着明显的对应关系。

大家拍吧，不拍不热闹。看看我错多少。

-- by 会员 plainn (2012/3/31 17:34:59)

qychen

在这我想多说几点我的总结，希望baby姐姐及其他nn拍砖：
句尾逗号后的分词结构：
1.表伴随：
1）在主谓宾结构后，正常伴随，逻辑主语为最近动词的动作发出者；
2）在主系表结构后，相当于主语修饰（宾语修饰）
3）having done 结构，是状语，修饰主句句尾名词
2.表结果，非伴随，无逻辑主语（刚看来的）：
1）主句可以是现在完成时
2）主句可以是主系表结构
[如果这个是真的的话，那么所谓的“主句的谓语动词要导致逗号后谓语动词”的说法是否还成立呢？]

with独立主格结构，可以用在主系表结构后，而且还是修饰整句。。。不知道为什么我今天就碰见了。。。应该是prep08里的，一会我再找找；
with独立主格的逻辑主语问题，我一直也不太明白，但最常见的情况是，with后的名词是主句名词的一部分，比如monkey和arm那种关系。。。。with独立主格挺烦的，nn们各执一词。。。

qychen

我不专业。。。贡献绵薄之力吧。。
with n. that 不是独立主格，因为它相当于with +n.，放在句尾逗号后应该是一个非限定性修饰。。。这样看来它修饰the economy，the economy with employment显然不搭；再说with n. that，SVO也是不对的，因为with短语可以理解为全句的状语（类似along with），也可以理解为主句倒装而with n是第二宾语

plainn

还有，我后来也看到，with the result that是一种常用的固定搭配，当然，还是一切以make sense为准啦~

plainn

对了，最后一道题你说E选项应该有would的问题，我同意，我觉得应该是GWD的transcription error吧，我看btg论坛上这道题目的E后面就有would

http://www.beatthegmat.com/swiss-gold-t20903.html

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/8 16:36:57)

真的好谢谢baby姐姐！！！
我发现的确我的思维总是太拘泥于小的规则和推理了，做SC需要在短暂的时间内去正确理解句意，baby姐姐解释题目就很有大局观，好棒！！
with fears that的解释真是点醒梦中人。。。。。对了，后来我也不记得在哪看到说would的确是GWD漏掉的
谢谢你的热心

babybearmm

对了，最后一道题你说E选项应该有would的问题，我同意，我觉得应该是GWD的transcription error吧，我看btg论坛上这道题目的E后面就有would

http://www.beatthegmat.com/swiss-gold-t20903.html

babybearmm

不好意思这位童鞋，我刚看到你的留言。不知道能不能帮你，因为我的理解跟prep笔记的感觉不是一个体系......
比如你引用那句话，说“逻辑主语”。说实话，我还真不知道with结构怎么可能会有“逻辑主语”。在我看来: whenever we mention "the subject", we are associating it with a verb (or verbs). 所以我能理解v-ing有“逻辑主语”，v-ed有“逻辑主语”，因为这些都属于verb form。但是with结构，典型的是"with + noun + noun modifier"，根本不存在verb，怎么就会有“逻辑主语”呢....我是不能理解。
当然，我不是说prep笔记错了，也许prep笔记是另一个知识体系，只是我还理解不了，shrug~

"with"的问题，我觉得最简单的就是——多读。从CD上下载正确句子，搜索with，拿出来读。还有读什么WSJ, NYT, Economists什么或者科研文献、教科书，随便拿篇文章几乎都会有with. 同样建议翻开一本英文教材，搜索with.
真的，with用法在英语里太灵活了。so versatile!! 让我总结我总结不上来，不可能包罗全部。但是，读多了，你就知道从句意逻辑上，什么时候"with" makes sense，什么时候就不make sense. 知道这个，就足够了，话说GMAT考的不就是在具体句子中的实际应用么

关于with，参考以下两个links:
http://www.beatthegmat.com/gmatprep-usage-of-with-t86149.html#456892
http://www.beatthegmat.com/comma-with-expert-please-explain-t85064.html#376889

下面用这个颜色就你的例题说我的看法吧，仅供参考

在prep08 155下面的补充说明里（英文）说，独立主格是修饰整个句子，而不是某个词语
而且with型的独立主格结构和主句是有紧密的逻辑关系的

第一个问题：那么with型的独立主格结构有逻辑主语吗？如何判定逻辑主语？是主句主语吗？

然后是PREP笔记里面的知识点：

注意点：独立主格并不包括“with + n. + 定语从句”和“n. + 定语从句”的形式，这个形式做的是非限定性修饰前面名词的定语，因为这个形式就相当于n, with + n.，或者是n., n. + that概括性同位语。

问题是从这道题目的解释开始的。。
191. (GWD-10-Q24)For the last five years the Dutch economy hasgrown faster than Britain,France, or Germany, withthe unemployment rate having remained well below that of the other threecountries.  
A.      Britain, France,or Germany,with the unemployment rate having remained
B.      havethose of Britain, France, or Germany, and the unemployment rateremaining
C.       have Britain,France, and Germany, andthe unemployment rate has remained
D.       the economy of Britain,France, and Germany, withthe unemployment rate that has remained (E)
E.       theeconomies of Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment ratehas remained
答案是E

Aeoluseros NN对D的看法：首先D最大的错误仅进在于后面with引导的伴随状语的逻辑主语Dutcheconomy错误
我的理解是此处的逻辑主语应该是Dutch而不是Dutch economy

这题我的理解是："with" does not make logical sense; the economy and the unemployment rate are two different things, and thus we have to use parallel structure with "and".
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-696418-1-6.html  #2

第二个问题：with+n+that这种非独立主格结构也需要有逻辑主语？也是主句主语？

193. (T-3-Q2)

As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed,staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
A.      As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, thisresults in the act of stinging causing
B.      As the heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
C.      Thehoneybee’s stinger, heavily barbed and staying where it is inserted, results inthe fact that the act of stinging causes
D.       The heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stayswhere it is inserted, and results in the act of stinging causing      
E.       Thehoneybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with theresult that the act of stinging causes
答案是E，此处也是with+n+that的非独立主格结构

第三个问题来了，那么这里的逻辑主语是谁呢？难道是honeybee’s stinger吗？不是与上一题的解释矛盾了吗？

As I write above, I don't know so-called "逻辑主语". So let me forget about it.
In this sentence, "with" makes perfect sense:
(In this clause I am describing a phenomenon), with the result that bla bla bla.

C and D are incorrect for the same reason: the stinger itself cannot result in _____.
Rather, the phenomenon described in the clause is with the result ...

T-3-Q19.

A Swiss government panel recommended that the countrysell about half of its gold reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that do the same and inundate the market.

A.     reserves and this raised fears of othercountries that

B.     reserves, which, as a result, raised fearsof other countries that

C.     reserves, as a result, they feared thatother countries would

D.     reserves, with fears raised that othercountries would

E.      reserves, raising fears thatother countries

此题答案选E，我选了D——是因为上一题留给我的印象使然。虽然我知道E选项里raising...可以做伴随状语表结果，但是我认为这里would是必要的，因为other counties do the same and inundate the market是一种fear，是推测发生的事情

不知道D选项错在哪儿了？难道又是因为逻辑主语？？

这题同样是逻辑哦，"with" does not make sense, whereas "comma + v-ing" makes perfect sense in conveying causal relationship.
你选的D，意思上就完全不对了。比如看看我刚才google到的这个"with fear"的句子，你来理解一下句意：
HOSEPIPE BANS affecting 20 million households in southern and eastern England have come into force, with fears that restrictions may have to be toughened in coming months because of severe shortages.
如果你觉得不容易理解，我来造个句子吧
The Chinese government required Sina and Tencent to temporarily disable commenting functions on their microblogs, with fears that web users may spread political rumors following the sidelining of Bo Xilai.
相信你明白了，你选的D，恰恰是把cause-and-effect关系给搞反了！


这个with结构迷惑我好多天了。。。。望CDer热心解答！！！！！

-- by 会员 plainn (2012/3/31 17:34:59)