og-sc-128 WITH独主问题

lei825

没找到有人问C项里WITH的问题，所以求教
og-sc-128
. Australian embryologists have found evidence that
suggests that the elephant is descended from an
aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a
kind of snorkel.
(A) that suggests that the elephant isdescended
from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally
evolving
(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from
an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(C》 suggesting that the elephanthad descended
from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally
evolved
(D) to suggest that the elephant haddescended
from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally
evolved
(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from
an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally
evolved

OG对C项中with的错误解释如下:
   with can't be followed by an independent clause
1）不明白，我想这里with不对的意思应该是前面用了完成时态，不用伴随了
2）我想问下这里的with型独主是修饰that从句里descened这个词呢，还是还可以往前修饰found这个词呢，不考虑其它，就想问下修饰的位置关系，不太明白，谢谢

babybearmm

我觉得你的问题提得非常好！

我先来说OG怎么解释的：
OG对C项中with的错误解释如下:
   with can't be followed by an independent clause
OG这话的意思是，with后面不能跟一个完整的从句。其实你复习独立主格的时候会发现，"with ..."这种通常的结构是：
with + noun + noun modifier
注意：上面没有verb，所以构不成一个indepedent clause
比如我们可以说
I am driving my car with windows open.
但不能说
I am driving my car with windows are open. (WRONG)
看这道题的C选项：with its trunk originally evolved ...
如果我们要写成一个句子：Its trunk originally evolved ..... 我们会这么写，其中evolved作为动词，是动词的过去式
那么在with后面跟一个句子，就不对了。OG想说的就是这个语法上的错误。

2）我想问下这里的with型独主是修饰that从句里descened这个词呢，还是还可以往前修饰found这个词呢，不考虑其它，就想问下修饰的位置关系，不太明白，谢谢

你这个问题很犀利，而事实上我觉得这正是C选项最关键的逻辑错误——如果说我上面说的是语法错误的话
    顺便说，不要去justify错误选项，比如你看到错误选项用了"with ..."而然后OG没说是错的，于是你希望证明这个结构是对的.....Ron说过，OG的题目出得非常好，但是很多解释不好，有些解释没有刺中核心问题或者忽略了错误选项的一些错误。GMAT的错误选项通常不止一处错，而正确选项会做得很完美——因为他们要防止产生质疑。

(C》 suggesting that the elephanthad descended
from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally
evolved
这个"with ... "是有歧异的！我们作为读者可以这么断句：
the elephant     descended from            an (aquatic) animal (with its trunk originally evolved ....)
如果我们这么断句的话, "with ...."就是修饰animal，这么理解从语法上讲完全没有问题，从逻辑上也还算合理
同样，我们也可以理解这个"with ..."是修饰descended的动作，从逻辑上还算合理
当一个句子可以产生不止一个逻辑上合理的理解的时候，GMAT必然不会接受。因为作者的本意只有一个。
Analogy:
I am driving my car with windows open.     "with ...."修饰car，从common sense来看，不可能有歧义
I am driving my car with pleasure.       "with pleasure"修饰动作"be driving"，从common sense来看，也不可能有歧义
这两句也是"with ..."放到后面，结构相同，但"with...”修饰对象不同。这两个句子都对，因为不会有歧义。
但咱前面分析的C选项，两种理解都没问题，就是有歧义。
至于你说"with ..."还可以修饰"found"，我觉得这倒不太make sense：
"Scientists have found ... with its trunk ...."
这句话its trunk哪里来？C选项里，its truck中的its，逻辑上合理（暂不考虑语法）的指代，要不就是elephant，要不就是animal。
所以说，"with ...."修饰"found"是不可能的。

然后C选项的错误，还在于改变了愿意（OG解释的第一段说了）。句子原意是发现了两件相互关联的事，两件事并列关系。而C这个句子，就算我们按照"with ..."修饰descend动作来理解，那也是改变了句意，把两件并列的事变成了一轻一重、一个伴随一个。

不知道我说清楚没有...

没找到有人问C项里WITH的问题，所以求教
og-sc-128
. Australian embryologists have found evidence that
suggests that the elephant is descended from an
aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a
kind of snorkel.
(A) that suggests that the elephant isdescended
from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally
evolving
(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from
an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(C》 suggesting that the elephanthad descended
from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally
evolved
(D) to suggest that the elephant haddescended
from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally
evolved
(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from
an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally
evolved

OG对C项中with的错误解释如下:
   with can't be followed by an independent clause
1）不明白，我想这里with不对的意思应该是前面用了完成时态，不用伴随了
2）我想问下这里的with型独主是修饰that从句里descened这个词呢，还是还可以往前修饰found这个词呢，不考虑其它，就想问下修饰的位置关系，不太明白，谢谢

-- by 会员 lei825 (2012/1/28 10:57:35)

Grace828

感谢分享！               

kwyang

太精彩了！

GMAT加油加油

baby姐说的太好了 mark一下

yttuobao

你们太赞了！！！感动哭！！！

zincgirl

谢谢谢谢

zincgirl

谢谢谢谢

ansionjoe

babybearmm 发表于 2012-2-3 19:27
To ls:不可以。因为evolve描述生物进化时是非及物动词，没有说生物进化用被动语态的（你想啊，如果用被动语 ...

牛人，我觉得你可以去做GMAT的老师了，看了你的解释，觉得太透彻了，你是不是GMAT会考800的人呢～～～

coconutmi

babybearmm 发表于 2012-2-4 17:55
你说得对！最简单的办法，就是你把句子还原成正常句子，你会说：The elephant evolved from ...而不会说：T ...

baby 女神~~~ 呼叫呼叫~~
我有2个问题请教~~~
1. 关于及物和不及物动词
descend 做遗传时其实也是不及物，但是就有descended adj.形式, evolve就没adj.形式，Ron大神这样说
"descend the two constructions have different meanings.
is descended --> used to talk about evolution, ancestry, etc. (as in this context)
has descended --> has moved, literally or figuratively, in a downward direction: the larynx has descended (literally) during the process of human evolution; our culture has descended (figuratively) into mindless entertainment "
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/australian-embroyologists-have-found-evidence-t2938.html
感觉其实类似习惯用法，不知亲有没有什么好方法能够用逻辑什么的判断？

2.关于C中间的过去完成时。 我觉得也说得通，就是have found中found之前已经遗传好了。(当然如果遗传只能表达成be+descended作形容词，就必须没有什么动词时态了)
Ron 说这个过去完成代表这个事情已经不存在了。。。
“number two, much more importantly, the use of the past perfect is incorrect: the implication of the past perfect is that this isn't true anymore. (for instance, think about the statement 'i had thought he was an honest person'.) ”

不知baby咋看？

不慎感激~~~~

waynedgbb

学习了，好贴，困惑好久了