(ZZ) Wharton: It was like Chinatown meets Little India there

heythere

一个NB哄哄的申请者on campus interview有感
Everyone seemed to be in a hurry to go off somewhere and it was clear that the simple questions we had - with smiles on our faces and an easy manner - were a bother. I hated that. Particularly because I am familiar with Yale, Princeton and Stanford (where I and my family went to school) where 99.999999% of people are super helpful and kind, particularly at Yale, which is one of those let's-all-hold-hands-and-sing-kumbaya sort of place. I didn't get that vibe AT ALL at Penn.

。。。。。

What else? Oh, the reason I registered to be a poster in the first place. That article about how difficult it is for Chinese and Indian International students to get in.

The Indians and Chinese students. OMG.

At the risk of writing something potentially politically incorrect, the only word to describe the sheer number of Indian/Chinese students I saw is frightening. It was rather stunning. I don't know how many of the Wharton students are actually Chinese or Indian, but I am guessing no fewer than 60% of the International students are Chinese or Indian. It was like Chinatown meets Little India there.

What else? 100% of the other kids I spoke with as I awaited the interview were either consultants or bankers.  Really, really odd stuff...

What I found out, of course, is that an interview is as much a chance for the school to get to know you better as it is for you to get to know the school. For me, I immediately struck Wharton off my list of schools (I have the luxury of already being accepted at a number of other schools - I dettferred enrollment from last year). This just ain't gonna work.

Terrible, terrible experience.

P.S: Apologies in advance to anyone I offended if my post is perceived as being politically incorrect or offensive or unkind or (insert bad word here). I value honesty.

yunyingling

Some Wharton student speaks like this, I think it is not uncommon for somebody in U.S.:

You know, Wharton bombards me with frequent fundraising solicitations. The most recent was a postcard that showed pictures of seven current students, but only one of them represented my demographic (white male, born in the USA). It's always like this with them. And my feeling is that the US government sends enough of my money abroad through its foreign aid programs. If I felt like more, I'd give the money to UNICEF, not to Wharton. And whereas I'm not unsympathetic to affirmative action for AMERICANS (mind you, there were no black people on the front of that post card), I don't feel like subsidizing the opportunity to attend Wharton for foreigners. So I don't give them a dime.

Moreover, oftentimes we take vacations in the United States not just to save money but to be among people like ourselves. It's just too strenuous or more foreign than we'd bargained for to go abroad, especially to places like China or India. If this is true of a vacation, it is a fortiori truer still of two or more years spent at an educational institution.

It is important not to allow oneself to be bullied or shouted down by people crying racist or xenophobe in response to an expression of normal and natural preference to be around people of one's own nationality, people who speak one's own language without an accent.

Two points.

First, if I thought that the best opportunities lay in China and India, then I'd go to school in those countries, subject, of course, to restrictions on immigration set by the governments of those countries (it is usually the case the US citizens get the short end when it comes to opportunities to work abroad).

Second, Wharton is an American school, as is every kindergarten, primary school, middle school, and high school in the 50 states. You're arguing that every school in the United States should have 50% of its student body come from India and China. That seems absurd. Moreover, you're making an argument that every school in every country all over the world should draw 50% of its student body from India and China. Again, that seems absurd. Any country is a country because its native population share a common history and institutions. The institutions of that country belong to its population and are not a common possession of the world.

If I were doing it again, I would not go to Wharton (even though I could not have enjoyed it more, learned more, or benefited more from the experience).

yeeren

确实是抱着赏析的心情看滴。。。

heythere> assuming you just visited, this is nearing the finals for the school. It is also near the time when all the job and internship applications are due. I suspect that if you visit any school nearing the final exams AND nearing the final recruiting deadline, that 'everyone will seem to be in a hurry to go somewhere'. So hopefully you don't hold it against them.

Also bear in mind that you met, at most, 5-10 other applicants while sitting in that room. Since most applicants who sit in that room are able to go to Philly, they tend to be from New York- again, which tends to have a lot of bankers and consultants (not surprising). There are hundreds of other applicants who don't make it to Philly. There are also many of us from non-traditional industries but maybe you got unlucky with your small sample size. The fact remains, however, that these industries are major feeders into business school- go to any business school and again, you'll likely find that >50% of your classmates have once, in their life, worked in finance or consulting. If you don't like that, then maybe you're looking at the wrong masters degree... BTW, this is why fit is important. Not just fit with a school, but fit with business school in general.

That aside, I have found that many "Chinese" or "Indian" students are in fact not from China or India. Many Asians look alike- I personally can't tell a Japanese, Korean, or Chinese apart with 100% certainty without talking to them. Nor can I distinguish Indians, Pakistanis, and sometimes Middle Eastern people. In fact, I was watching a movie last night and (embarassingly) thought one of the Mexican stars was Chinese. Even if they ARE Chinese or Indian, many of them have parents and grandparents who are citizens of the US, and have grown up there. The US, unlike many countries, is seen as a "salad bowl" of cultures- racial diversity is prized, but everyone is also "American". If you take the time to get to know a Chinese American, for instance, you may find them far more 'American' than 'Chinese', race not withstanding.

Finally, bear in mind that Wharton is one of the only business schools in the USA which has an undergraduate business programmes. Maybe many of the "people rushing to go somewhere", or even the "Chinese" or "Indian" students, were just not MBA students. It is my personal experience that the undergraduates at Wharton are extremely intense- far more so than my classmates at UChicago during my undergraduate days.

You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, and I am glad you exercised this right. After all, and I can't stress this enough, "fit" is CRITICAL- not just for whether you can get in, but whether you'll get a lot our of the experience. So kudos to you, for discovering that Wharton is not a good fit for you. I just wanted to clarify the situation- things are not always as simple as they seem on the surface. (In fact, they almost never are).

PS, this is an issue that strikes very close to my heart. At Wharton, I was head of the Volunteer Admissions Committee. We were a group of volunteers who helped bring applicants around, show them to classes, introduce them to fellow classmates, and so on. We were volunteers- unpaid, with our own commitments, but nonetheless expected to show up everyday, rain or shine, to help people whom, in all honesty, we'll see once and never again. But we did it without complaints, although I admit try as we might, sometimes we were stretched just because there were so many applicants coming into Wharton every day. I even cut class a few times to bring applicants around. So do cut them some slack!

-- by 会员 cannedpineapples (2011/11/29 13:23:56)

果断6分作文，3个逻辑错误，加总结及对策。斑竹当年作文肯定高分。

-- by 会员 Freeland54 (2011/12/1 19:57:17)

jessjess

楼主写的东西中间很多感觉好像也是美国同学提过的普遍感受。自己没去过，不评论
之前跟一些Recruiter聊天，他们说有些学校的学生不懂怎么talk with people，就是interpersonal skill太差（没特指Wharton啊，应该也不是一个学校让人有这种感觉）。。。
之前和一些Stanford的同学聊过，感觉不错，就知道什么叫nice, easy going和excellence without attitude
很多好学校确实有很明显的“拽”。。。当然啦，人家也确实是好学校，所以拽也不是没道理

Freeland54

[quote]
heythere> assuming you just visited, this is nearing the finals for the school. It is also near the time when all the job and internship applications are due. I suspect that if you visit any school nearing the final exams AND nearing the final recruiting deadline, that 'everyone will seem to be in a hurry to go somewhere'. So hopefully you don't hold it against them.

Also bear in mind that you met, at most, 5-10 other applicants while sitting in that room. Since most applicants who sit in that room are able to go to Philly, they tend to be from New York- again, which tends to have a lot of bankers and consultants (not surprising). There are hundreds of other applicants who don't make it to Philly. There are also many of us from non-traditional industries but maybe you got unlucky with your small sample size. The fact remains, however, that these industries are major feeders into business school- go to any business school and again, you'll likely find that >50% of your classmates have once, in their life, worked in finance or consulting. If you don't like that, then maybe you're looking at the wrong masters degree... BTW, this is why fit is important. Not just fit with a school, but fit with business school in general.

That aside, I have found that many "Chinese" or "Indian" students are in fact not from China or India. Many Asians look alike- I personally can't tell a Japanese, Korean, or Chinese apart with 100% certainty without talking to them. Nor can I distinguish Indians, Pakistanis, and sometimes Middle Eastern people. In fact, I was watching a movie last night and (embarassingly) thought one of the Mexican stars was Chinese. Even if they ARE Chinese or Indian, many of them have parents and grandparents who are citizens of the US, and have grown up there. The US, unlike many countries, is seen as a "salad bowl" of cultures- racial diversity is prized, but everyone is also "American". If you take the time to get to know a Chinese American, for instance, you may find them far more 'American' than 'Chinese', race not withstanding.

Finally, bear in mind that Wharton is one of the only business schools in the USA which has an undergraduate business programmes. Maybe many of the "people rushing to go somewhere", or even the "Chinese" or "Indian" students, were just not MBA students. It is my personal experience that the undergraduates at Wharton are extremely intense- far more so than my classmates at UChicago during my undergraduate days.

You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, and I am glad you exercised this right. After all, and I can't stress this enough, "fit" is CRITICAL- not just for whether you can get in, but whether you'll get a lot our of the experience. So kudos to you, for discovering that Wharton is not a good fit for you. I just wanted to clarify the situation- things are not always as simple as they seem on the surface. (In fact, they almost never are).

PS, this is an issue that strikes very close to my heart. At Wharton, I was head of the Volunteer Admissions Committee. We were a group of volunteers who helped bring applicants around, show them to classes, introduce them to fellow classmates, and so on. We were volunteers- unpaid, with our own commitments, but nonetheless expected to show up everyday, rain or shine, to help people whom, in all honesty, we'll see once and never again. But we did it without complaints, although I admit try as we might, sometimes we were stretched just because there were so many applicants coming into Wharton every day. I even cut class a few times to bring applicants around. So do cut them some slack!

-- by 会员 cannedpineapples (2011/11/29 13:23:56)

果断6分作文，3个逻辑错误，加总结及对策。斑竹当年作文肯定高分。

csch

唉。我觉得MBA就是个商业模式，某种程度都像传销了，自己交学费，学校带你满世界的转，请名人来给你讲，到处宣传那些成功的alumni，弄得人人都觉得自己也能超成功有一天，实际上大多数alumni还是过着普通人的小日子。

-- by 会员 yimailme (2011/11/30 16:38:48)

精辟

heythere

这人不知道哪天面的，说不定我见着他了。。。
我是on campus interview的，所以我可以来说说我的感受。确实是见到了很多亚洲面孔的申请人。很多的概念是>50%。不过只是在我等着面试的那差不多半个小时的时间里看到的。其它时间段有没有这么多亚洲面孔的就不太清楚了。
我坐那一圈子总共是7个人，4女三男。5个亚洲面孔，两个白男。5个亚裔的除了我，其它都是美国人，人家根本不是中国人，韩国人或者是日本人（表问我怎么知道的，这是感觉，而且我觉得他们都是ABC啊，坐我旁边的女生我看到她last name了，像是台湾或者香港那边的拼法）。除了那两个白男以外其它的都说了自己的背景，确实都是finance或者consultant的。我是非传统背景，所以当时被深深的打击了。。。亚裔女生们都非常健谈，而且可以感觉都比较aggresive，有可能是工作中形成的习惯。亚裔男生刚开始还好，后来前面一组面试的人纷纷从小房间里出来的时候可以感觉他开始紧张了。那两个白男一直都挺闷的，不怎么说话，然后很明显的非常紧张，跟我们聊天的时候有点心不在焉的感觉。
我大概面了40分钟，出来的时候看到另外一拨人在等着面试，没有仔细看都是什么人，但是好像没有看到很多亚洲人。印度人我就只见到了一个。
我同意前面jason的说法，philly距离新泽西，纽约很近，所以很多选择campus interview的都是这些地方的申请人。这两地方的亚裔居民是很多的，在campus interview的时候见到很多ABC啊什么的确实不奇怪。

-- by 会员 suu (2011/12/1 1:17:17)

哈哈，大家都很紧张啊。。。为什么很多女生面试反而不紧张呢？我很好奇！

suu

这人不知道哪天面的，说不定我见着他了。。。
我是on campus interview的，所以我可以来说说我的感受。确实是见到了很多亚洲面孔的申请人。很多的概念是>50%。不过只是在我等着面试的那差不多半个小时的时间里看到的。其它时间段有没有这么多亚洲面孔的就不太清楚了。
我坐那一圈子总共是7个人，4女三男。5个亚洲面孔，两个白男。5个亚裔的除了我，其它都是美国人，人家根本不是中国人，韩国人或者是日本人（表问我怎么知道的，这是感觉，而且我觉得他们都是ABC啊，坐我旁边的女生我看到她last name了，像是台湾或者香港那边的拼法）。除了那两个白男以外其它的都说了自己的背景，确实都是finance或者consultant的。我是非传统背景，所以当时被深深的打击了。。。亚裔女生们都非常健谈，而且可以感觉都比较aggresive，有可能是工作中形成的习惯。亚裔男生刚开始还好，后来前面一组面试的人纷纷从小房间里出来的时候可以感觉他开始紧张了。那两个白男一直都挺闷的，不怎么说话，然后很明显的非常紧张，跟我们聊天的时候有点心不在焉的感觉。
我大概面了40分钟，出来的时候看到另外一拨人在等着面试，没有仔细看都是什么人，但是好像没有看到很多亚洲人。印度人我就只见到了一个。
我同意前面jason的说法，philly距离新泽西，纽约很近，所以很多选择campus interview的都是这些地方的申请人。这两地方的亚裔居民是很多的，在campus interview的时候见到很多ABC啊什么的确实不奇怪。

yimailme

唉。我觉得MBA就是个商业模式，某种程度都像传销了，自己交学费，学校带你满世界的转，请名人来给你讲，到处宣传那些成功的alumni，弄得人人都觉得自己也能超成功有一天，实际上大多数alumni还是过着普通人的小日子。

sirenfish

这人大实话。