那个。。。prep08(part1) 187.。。找不到这个知识点的讨论。。

泾渭不凡

这道题，本来从意思上看，应该修饰posts。
但是posts和"comma+some of which"之间隔了 "within the Democratic Party during his first term"
分析一下，"within the Democratic Party during his first term"是不是"mission-critical" modifier?
不是！因为你去掉这一片，并不影响我们理解"posts"。换句话说，这一长串并非对名词"posts"作出definition.

所以说，这题必须遵从touch-rule，不能法外开恩。不管是"comma+which"，还是"comma+some of which"，都是严格遵从touch-rule.

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/15 10:34:05)

赞哪baby姐姐的分析过程~饭饭对mission-critical modifier又进一步的理解了~~
touch-rule原则饭饭记住了！！

泾渭不凡

yiayia这句话，我们把"such as A and B"去掉
These techniques, which can ..., _______.
这样的句子是可以的。
这句话，"which can ..." is a non-essential modifier
因为你说的是"These techniques"，换句话说，我们读者已经知道你指的具体是什么techniques了，所以你再说"which can ..."并不是在帮助我们确认你指的哪个techniques，而是给出补充信息，这就叫做non-essential.
而假如这个句子：
A technique, which can alleviate pain, is under development.
这句话从意思上看，很不好，因为读者不知道你的"a technique"指的是什么technique，你那个"which can alleviate pain"用的是non-essential modifier结构，不能理解为对"a technique"给出difinition，所以读者仍然不知道你指的什么。这句话就该改成：
A technique that can alleviate pain is under development.

其实我一直觉得，我们该从意思上去理解essential modifier vs. non-essential modifier
就像饭饭看到那个Ron举的那个例子一样（好象是a man that we saw yesterday那个例子）

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/15 10:43:58)

嗯！~~饭饭要学会从逻辑含义层面对语法进一步的掌控学习~~！

babybearmm

哈，我刚和你同时发贴了，你也发现那个which的问题了
你说得没错啊，"comma+v-ing"都是verb modifier，这里也可以按verb modifier去理解：
DI was appointed to several posts, including A and B.
根据"include"这个词的意思，你可以理解为posts包括A and B.
也可以理解为"including A and B"对整个这句话"DI was appointed to several posts"作状语，补充说明
都可以的。其实"including"更像是习惯用法。

such as 那个句子的确把which改成that更好。

baby姐，这里", including ..."就按"comma+v-ing"理解  不是分词结尾都是verb modifier? 难道后来结论有变化？ 求指教。

-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/15 10:42:01)

babybearmm

呀，刚注意这里有这么好的现成的例句。
a technique called proton-included X-ray emission(called...严格限定了a technique)
yiayia说得很对！

关于which的跳跃修饰，我的总结是which想要跳跃修饰，
a)被修饰名词后面跟的成分必须是与之非常相关的。
b)而且跳跃修饰不能跳跃超过1个逗号，即which修饰的名词在which逗号前的句子里。

如：OG12 107题
正确句子：
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission(called...严格限定了a technique),which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
错误句子：
A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it.(跳跃修饰超过1个逗号，OG就认为which修饰的是emission了)

-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/15 9:16:57)

泾渭不凡

哈，我刚和你同时发贴了，你也发现那个which的问题了
你说得没错啊，"comma+v-ing"都是verb modifier，这里也可以按verb modifier去理解：
DI was appointed to several posts, including A and B.
根据"include"这个词的意思，你可以理解为posts包括A and B.
也可以理解为"including A and B"对整个这句话"DI was appointed to several posts"作状语，补充说明
都可以的。其实"including"更像是习惯用法。

such as 那个句子的确把which改成that更好。

baby姐，这里", including ..."就按"comma+v-ing"理解  不是分词结尾都是verb modifier? 难道后来结论有变化？ 求指教。

-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/15 10:42:01)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/15 10:51:29)

按照verb-modifier理解的话，在本句中只能作为主句状语修饰理解；不能作为谓语动词伴随，这样逻辑不通顺，这里就要根据including的本身含义进行逻辑分析了吧？

Royzhang0929

对于饭饭的这个总结：（1）在非限制性定语修饰名词，被修饰名词和修饰词之间有介词短语酱紫滴结构间隔的时候，V-ing结构做非限制性定语修饰的“跳跃能力”要强于which引导的非限制性定语从句，就是说这个时候V-ing结构的非限制性定语更具有效性。
我不太同意：


v-ing的用法方面：（我忘了当时为什么要搞清楚了，因为啥题不记得了）
以下引自baby姐与某人牛牛讨论的结果：
1)     V+ing, SVO 可以修饰主语、谓语 noun modifier or verb modifier


v-ing放到句子之前，不用太关心verb modifier，还是叫noun modifier，都无所谓，因为他就是针对主语的且和主句意思有关

Using the lastest technology, the engineeridentified the problem.  （verb modifier）

Using accounts of various ancient writers，scholars have painted a sketchy picture of the activities of anall-female cult that, perhaps as early as the sixth century B.C., worshipped agoddess known in Latin as Bona Dea, “the good goddess.”  （noun modifier）

2)S,V+ing,VO 修饰主语 noun modifier

Neuroscientists, V-ing,  verb + object.

3)SVO,V-ing[R1]  修饰谓语，句子   verb modifier or clause modifier（相当于副词adverbial modifier, modifies the entire action of the precedingclause and applies to the subject within that clause.）
例子
OG12-1 The Glass House Mountains in Queensland, Australia,were sighted in 1770 by the English navigator Captain James Cook, by whom they were named supposedly because its sheer wet rocks glistened like glass.


其中的C: naming them supposedly since their
OG解释错误原因是as the the object of a preposition and not the subject of the clause, James Cook does not work as the noun that verbal phrase beginning with naming can describe



I lifted the weight, whistling。（仅仅表示同时发生的一个动作）

OG11-24 /12-30For members of theseventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with woodenframes were essential items of military equipment, a method to protectwarriors against enemy arrows and spears.

A. a method to protect

B. as a method protecting

C. Protecting（C）

D. as a protection of

E. to protect

有童鞋(我也是。。)可能认为protecting 是修饰items或equipment, 但是"svo comma v-ing"必须是verb modifier！OG对此的解释是 revealing the purpose of the items.体会下为什么不说modify the items of military equipment? 因此protecting是 adv,表目的。


修饰句子往往表示由被修饰句子引起的结果，这种情况，ing结尾不存在问题


Crime has recently decreased,leading to...


TIPS:nounmodifier 必须满足touch rule
Verbmodifer位置比较宽松，放在句首、句尾都可，但一定要applies to thesubject
open to discuss

饭饭,哥来支持你了…
这是一个effectiveness的错误
用some of which来指代/修饰时主要要注意一点：它的修饰含义/手法和which一样，也就是说which在指代时会犯的错误some of which也会犯，which适用/不适用的地方some of which同样适用/不适用。
在此题中，如果我们把some of which看成which(注意：只是从结构上来划等号而不是从意思上)，很明显不如including好，因为-ing在逗号后面能跳过很多种结构来修饰且这种跳跃貌似很被出题者喜欢。至于which有时的确可以跳过prep. phrase进行指代但毕竟那是在没有更好的选择下，即不到一些特殊的情况正确答案很少让which跳跃来指代（记得GWD还是prep有一道题有两个选项比较迷惑1，to…from..prep. phrase X, which…. 2，from…to…X prep. phrase, which, 正确选项是1。2中的主要错误是which需要跳过一个prep. phrase来修饰X）
但我觉得这只是一个effectiveness的错误，即假如没有including那个选项some of which也可当作正确答案,（在我刚才举的那个例子中如果没有1，2同样也可以当作正确答案）不过这只是我的观点，谨慎对待

-- by 会员 justabeginning (2012/2/15 1:32:42)

~~~~~~>0<~~~~~~路飞阁阁最好了.....谢谢路飞~！.....这个贴纸不知道肿么了........昨天就是没人理啊......
饭饭这里明白路飞的意思了：
   就是从表达句意修饰有效性这一方面来看：
                                           （1）在非限制性定语修饰名词，被修饰名词和修饰词之间有介词短语酱紫滴结构间隔的时候，V-ing结构做非限制性定语修饰的“跳跃能力”要强于which引导的非限制性定语从句，就是说这个时候V-ing结构的非限制性定语更具有效性。
                                            （2）在 ", which" 引导定语从句结构做非限制性定语修饰的时候，与被修饰词之间最好没有介词短语结构间隔，遵循touch rule是最好的，但这不是绝对性错误。

还有就是some of which等酱紫关于which从句的结构做要注意的语法点是和which相同的~~

明白了~~~饭饭这里谢过路飞~~！~~~

-- by 会员 泾渭不凡 (2012/2/15 7:41:02)

泾渭不凡

关于which的跳跃修饰，我的总结是which想要跳跃修饰，
a)被修饰名词后面跟的成分必须是与之非常相关的。
b)而且跳跃修饰不能跳跃超过1个逗号，即which修饰的名词在which逗号前的句子里。

如：OG12 107题
正确句子：
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission(called...严格限定了a technique),which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
错误句子：
A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it.(跳跃修饰超过1个逗号，OG就认为which修饰的是emission了)

-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/15 9:16:57)

yiayia

我不是牛牛
baby姐，嗯~自己都忘了用了these特指了
including看自己理解吧，我认为它就是放在句尾，修饰句中的某个名词。
朗文认为它是个介词。
in·clud·ing
prep
used to introduce something or someone that is part of a larger group or amount you have just mentioned
　The price is £25.50, including postage and packing.修饰主语
　You'll need a variety of skills, including leadership and negotiating.修饰宾语

泾渭不凡

对于饭饭的这个总结：（1）在非限制性定语修饰名词，被修饰名词和修饰词之间有介词短语酱紫滴结构间隔的时候，V-ing结构做非限制性定语修饰的“跳跃能力”要强于which引导的非限制性定语从句，就是说这个时候V-ing结构的非限制性定语更具有效性。
我不太同意：
3)SVO,V-ing[R1]修饰谓语，句子   verb modifier or clause modifier（相当于副词adverbial modifier, modifies the entire action of the precedingclause and applies to the subject within that clause.）
例子
OG12-1 The Glass House Mountains in Queensland, Australia,were sighted in 1770 by the English navigator Captain James Cook, by whom they were named supposedly because its sheer wet rocks glistened like glass.


其中的C: naming them supposedly since their
OG解释错误原因是as the the object of a preposition and not the subject of the clause, James Cook does not work as the noun that verbal phrase beginning with naming can describe



I lifted the weight, whistling。（仅仅表示同时发生的一个动作）

OG11-24 /12-30For members of theseventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with woodenframes were essential items of military equipment, a method to protectwarriors against enemy arrows and spears.

A. a method to protect

B. as a method protecting

C. Protecting（C）

D. as a protection of

E. to protect

有童鞋(我也是。。)可能认为protecting 是修饰items或equipment, 但是"svo comma v-ing"必须是verb modifier！OG对此的解释是 revealing the purpose of the items.体会下为什么不说modify the items of military equipment? 因此protecting是 adv,表目的。


修饰句子往往表示由被修饰句子引起的结果，这种情况，ing结尾不存在问题


Crime has recently decreased,leading to...


TIPS:nounmodifier 必须满足touch rule
Verbmodifer位置比较宽松，放在句首、句尾都可，但一定要applies to thesubject
open to discuss

-- by 会员 Royzhang0929 (2012/2/15 11:06:40)

Roy亲~先谢谢roy的tips的补充及讨论拓展~~
但是饭饭木有明白亲不同意在那里。。。这个。。。including饭饭一直是遵照prep语法笔记讲述视为介词短语，此处拿来和some of which比较也是出于修饰的名词~~
但是看亲的驳斥立足是基于V-ing结构做状语修饰谓语动词和主句~~饭饭这里刚刚经baby姐姐指教拓展思维从状语角度考虑~~还在思忖学习Ing~~
之前结论是基于介词短语修饰名词考虑~~不知道亲是否是和饭饭基于一点出发进行驳斥？

还有那个protecting的题。。。。饭饭之前会的。。。。就是看了OG解释为目的昨天就又纠结了to protect为什么不行，既然都是表目的，句子还是主系表结构，主语和表语属性一致。这样to protect在这种情况下，相对于protecting，不是更少滴造成歧义么。。。。看了看bat滴神贴。。。感悟了一点。。。。现在在继续想。。。sigh
补充一点啊：这个to protect饭饭后来是从动作发出者不符合逻辑来排除的~~~正在思维确认ing~~一个自我说服的过程！

泾渭不凡

我不是牛牛
baby姐，嗯~自己都忘了用了these特指了
including看自己理解吧，我认为它就是放在句尾，修饰句中的某个名词。
朗文认为它是个介词。
in·clud·ing
prep
used to introduce something or someone that is part of a larger group or amount you have just mentioned
　The price is £25.50, including postage and packing.修饰主语
　You'll need a variety of skills, including leadership and negotiating.修饰宾语

-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/15 11:18:31)

啊~~谢谢yiayia~~饭饭一定要学会安装这个朗文帅锅！~~~那就是要再回归到按介词短语来理解？？