Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
Choice A, the best answer, uses the simple past tense flourished to describe civilizations existing simultaneously in the past. Choice B wrongly uses the past perfect had flourished; past perfect tense indicates action that was completed prior to some other event described in the simple past tense: for example, "Mayan civilization had ceased to exist by the time Europeans first reached the Americas." Choice C lacks as after time. In choices C, D, and E, the plural pronoun those has no plural noun to which it can refer. In C, had signals the incorrect past perfect; did in D and were in E are awkward and unnecessary. D and E also incorrectly use the present participle flourishing where that flourished is needed.
OG说did in D is unnecessary,但是我觉得A好像应该在the civilizations前或后补出动词did,毕竟比较的是文明间flourished的时间,比较对象不仅有主语,还应该包括谓语。
谢谢
I have the same question. I think chioce A) should be :
A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations (did)
pls help!
当谓语内容一致,比较两个主语的时候, 要尽量补出谓语动词, 偶尔也有不补出谓语动词的情况.
什么时候可以不用补出?
不发生歧义的时候.
很遗憾, 我给不出例子...
想说的一点是: 做题时, 把握ETS的大方向: 逻辑意思, 清晰, 简洁准确
我的经验: 如果碰到类似此题很少见的情况, 告诉自己, OK, 这样的结构ETS也是承认的. 当然不是说放弃深究, 而是辩证的观点...
想说的一点是: 做题时, 把握ETS的大方向: 逻辑意思, 清晰, 简洁准确
我的经验: 如果碰到类似此题很少见的情况, 告诉自己, OK, 这样的结构ETS也是承认的. 当然不是说放弃深究, 而是辩证的观点...
我也有同样的问题,楼上给的这个是最好的解释吗?有没人有其他的说法?ETS号称是最严谨的了,怎么可以想省就省,不想的时候还要乱棍打死。说awkward and unnecessary?至少应该中庸一下嘛,说"可有无什么"的,我总怀疑有其他的解释,好像自己在钻牛角尖啊。。。
其实严格的讲,这个题考点不是时态,而是修饰语的问题,从句和现在分词哪个作定语的问题,以白勇为代表的XDF是这么给出这类问题的规律的:
“-ING分词短语作定语:强调动作的多次性、重复性、客观性,无明确的时间概念;
定语从句作:强调动作的一次性,强调具体时间,具体行为。”
———摘自《GMAT语法全解》(白勇)103页
大家用这个再分析分析小彩同学总结的这类句子,看看是不是这个理?
OG1. a divorce that occurred when they were children...离婚是一次性,非反复发生的
OG80.an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as..强调发生的具体时间
OG102.a concert performance that the composer himself staged in 1911...同上,有具体时间状语
OG199,a quake of comparable magnitude occurring in the west...客观描述、无具体概念
OG113.Visitors have often seen monkeys sleeping on the branches...OFTEN表示重复性,非一次发生
好像这么解释还说得过去,是8?那就要注意从句子的逻辑意思和句中的时间标志或频率副词来判断了。
我觉得用that也不正确啊!因为Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates的文明是两个,用that数量就不对了。请NN指点。
我支持你,這一題在不改變其他部分的情況下,改that 是沒有道理的
當然若是the civilizations did in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates,改成the civilization did in the Nile delta,這裡的civilization就能改為that
i am still confused by OG_80. i always think the present participle "flourishing" could be used in this sentence, expressing the simultaneous actions. and i think the reason to choose A is not because A is perfect, but because the other 4 choices all have faults, such as the past perfect tense in B and wrong pronouns "those"s in C, D and E. so "flourishing at the same time as the civilizations" might also be right?!
any criticism is highly welcomed here. thanks in advance
i am still confused by OG_80. i always think the present participle "flourishing" could be used in this sentence, expressing the simultaneous actions. and i think the reason to choose A is not because A is perfect, but because the other 4 choices all have faults, such as the past perfect tense in B and wrong pronouns "those"s in C, D and E. so "flourishing at the same time as the civilizations" might also be right?!
any criticism is highly welcomed here. thanks in advance
delete this message!
看了这道题的讨论,还是有东西想问问
关于D/E的 flourishing at the same time as... 为什么不能理解为伴随状语呢,我的考虑是floursh是修饰civilization,并且是主动所以用ing 不用ed形式,为什么非要用一个that的宾从,不用这种伴随的结构呢??
请nn指教
我把题目补全,如下:
80. Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were
正确选项是 A
有没有过路的nn??
帮我看看25楼的问题,TIA~~~
看了这道题的讨论,还是有东西想问问
关于D/E的 flourishing at the same time as... 为什么不能理解为伴随状语呢,我的考虑是floursh是修饰civilization,并且是主动所以用ing 不用ed形式,为什么非要用一个that的宾从,不用这种伴随的结构呢??
请nn指教
怎么伴随,说话的时候说的是an ancient civilization 用that去限定,不存在任何伴随的可能性
80. Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
也想问D中did为什么可以省略。up
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
比较需要补出助动词是因为避免歧异
我们首先要搞清为什么会有歧异
比如
I eat apple faster than you do如果写成 I eat apple faster than you 按ETS的理解,从语法上就变成我吃苹果比吃你快,成了宾语比较。逻辑上显然不通。
但本句中比较出现在that引导的定语从句中
在该定语从句中,只有主谓没有宾语,也就是说不补出助动词,也不会产生比较宾语的歧意,因为根本没有宾语.
^_^
这个问题困扰了好久,终于想明白了
想说一下在OG中,AS与LIKE同时出现的时候
说:AS 应该加CLAUSE,LIKE 应该加PHRASE,也就是AS应该加主语加动词
可是为什么在这里DID就可以省略了呢
谢谢
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
比较需要补出助动词是因为避免歧异
比如
I eat apple faster than you do如果写成 I eat apple faster than you 按ETS的理解,从语法上就变成我吃苹果比吃你快,成了宾语比较。逻辑上显然不通。
但本句中比较出现在that引导的定语从句中
在该定语从句中,只有主谓没有宾语,也就是说不补出助动词,也不会产生比较宾语的歧意,因为根本没有宾语
因为省略不会产生歧义因而省略DID的思路有道理,但不知道能否有更多的例证支持。
想说一下在OG中,AS与LIKE同时出现的时候
说:AS 应该加CLAUSE,LIKE 应该加PHRASE,也就是AS应该加主语加动词
可是为什么在这里DID就可以省略了呢
谢谢
B也许是因为这里出现的是The same as而不是单独的as吧,不过这个问题值得继续关注....
想说一下在OG中,AS与LIKE同时出现的时候
说:AS 应该加CLAUSE,LIKE 应该加PHRASE,也就是AS应该加主语加动词
可是为什么在这里DID就可以省略了呢
谢谢
也想知道。
当主语和谓语相同,两者皆可省略。
in OG, there are many same questions.
谢谢,接着再问,没想明白:)
我觉得在civilizations 后面省略的that flourished,这个是定语从句,那么在AS后面省略的谓语是什么呢?????如果把谓语补出来后的句子应该是什么样的,因为前面the site of an ancient civilization that flourished 也是个词组,并不是句子啊?????
支持33楼的说法。这个例子很好,
" I eat apple faster than you do如果写成 I eat apple faster than you 按ETS的理解,从语法上就变成我吃苹果比吃你快,成了宾语比较。逻辑上显然不通。
但本句中比较出现在that引导的定语从句中
在该定语从句中,只有主谓没有宾语,也就是说不补出助动词,也不会产生比较宾语的歧意,因为根本没有宾语."
at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
我认为ETS首先认可的是平行结构的词性对称问题,因为上面的and连接的都是名词,所以在as之后对应的也应为名词形式,虽然逻辑上应该有did,但是在不产生歧义的情况下,为了和后面对称,所以把did省去.
但我认为这个题也只是一个很罕见的特例,在表示"象...一样"时,通常ETS还是默认as后面要接S+V的.
恳请各位NN指正~~~
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
比较需要补出助动词是因为避免歧异
我们首先要搞清为什么会有歧异
比如
I eat apple faster than you do如果写成 I eat apple faster than you 按ETS的理解,从语法上就变成我吃苹果比吃你快,成了宾语比较。逻辑上显然不通。
但本句中比较出现在that引导的定语从句中
在该定语从句中,只有主谓没有宾语,也就是说不补出助动词,也不会产生比较宾语的歧意,因为根本没有宾语.
^_^
这个问题困扰了好久,终于想明白了
我也觉得是没有歧义的时候不要补出助动词,但是不是很明白泥的意思, 这里的定语从句不是that flourished at the same ... 那么怎么会没有主谓宾? 定语从句是一个从句, 为什么? 还是泥的意思是这里flourish没有宾语所以不会有比较宾语产生的歧义?
Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.
比较需要补出助动词是因为避免歧异
我们首先要搞清为什么会有歧异
比如
I eat apple faster than you do如果写成 I eat apple faster than you 按ETS的理解,从语法上就变成我吃苹果比吃你快,成了宾语比较。逻辑上显然不通。
但本句中比较出现在that引导的定语从句中
在该定语从句中,只有主谓没有宾语,也就是说不补出助动词,也不会产生比较宾语的歧意,因为根本没有宾语.
^_^
***********************
如果照这么说,所有不及物动词(没有宾语)形成的比较句,都不需要补出助动词了!
我觉得,as后面不是一定得跟句子的,as也可以引导短语在句子中充当状语。如“the news comes as a shock." 或者“you need to be able to work as part of a team"中的AS 一样。
我记得prep有一道题就是这样的 the computer company has announced that it will purchase the color-printing division of a rival company for $950 million, as part of a deal that will make it the largest manufacturer in the official color-printing market.
the same...as...的as是不是可以做介词可以做连词啊。。。
还是只能做介词?
汗,每次看过来都还是有好多问题,不想活了
46的mm灌上水了
我认为,关键是D后面的those无所指代,不能用代词,所以尽管最好的形式是有did,但同其他比较,省略的也可以接受,起码不错。ETS想说明的是,代词一定要对应!!!不对应的代词必错!!
谈谈我的理解,希望能有点帮助:
1.主语比较:
1)当比较的动作相同且时态相同,不需补出助动词,
2)当比较的动作相同但时态不同,必须补出助动词;
2.宾语比较,不需补出助动词
3.the same…as/the same…that的用法区别,
1)当后面比较的2者的谓语动词相同时,用the same…as,如果时态也相同则谓语也省略,只保留比较对象,时态不同则补出助动词.
2)而当比较的2者的谓语动词不同时,用the same…that从句说明第2个的谓语动词如OG174,witten/published.
对于省略想说一点理解:英语是省略假设的,即能省就省略。当省略会引起歧义的时候,这时候就不能省略了。
而不是每个句子都要写全,当不引起歧义的时候才省略。
这道题选出正确答案应该没问题,因为可以看到CDE三项的those都是错误的,B中的时态不正确,所以选择A
但是为啥A中的did可以省略是因为没有歧义么/
请指教哦
总结的好~
看OG对B项错误的解释
B :that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
B就补出了助动词had,但解释说as后面的had是redundant and unnecessary的,就是说这种情况不是 不补出助动词也可以,而是根本就不能补?
btw 如果D改成 flourshing at the same time as that did 那就对了?这种 n + 分词定语从句中 可以把flourishing看成动词的过去式吗? 用did 代替 flourishing? 怎么这么别扭
看OG对B项错误的解释
B :that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
B就补出了助动词had,但解释说as后面的had是redundant and unnecessary的,就是说这种情况不是 不补出助动词也可以,而是根本就不能补?
btw 如果D改成 flourshing at the same time as that did 那就对了?这种 n + 分词定语从句中 可以把flourishing看成动词的过去式吗? 用did 代替 flourishing? 怎么这么别扭
主语比较时助动词补出多余,B就算补出也不应该补had,而是did
D改成flourshing at the same time as that did flourshing也不对。不能用于修饰an ancient civilization ,Ving强调动作持续到现在,明显不对,应该用that flourshed.虽然did补出与flourshed对应,但是主语比较,助动词无需补出,多余
看OG对B项错误的解释
B :that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
B就补出了助动词had,但解释说as后面的had是redundant and unnecessary的,就是说这种情况不是 不补出助动词也可以,而是根本就不能补?
btw 如果D改成 flourshing at the same time as that did 那就对了?这种 n + 分词定语从句中 可以把flourishing看成动词的过去式吗? 用did 代替 flourishing? 怎么这么别扭
我也不明白B为什么不对,而且B还很平行,有NN指导下吗?
顶起,请解释清楚点B为什么错好吗?
有NN指导吗?
谢谢你
我的理解:做比较题的时候,在不引起歧义的情况下尽量简洁:例如 a is more common among X than (among) Y,这里的among 不能省略,否则引起歧义,变成a 和 Y的比较~~这个题里面省略动词也不 会发生歧义~~就可以省略了吧~~
大家主谓宾比较都说到了,怎么就没人说是介词短语比较啊?
我觉得是in Pakistan和in theNile...比较,所以主语和时态都相同的时候,主谓都可以省略(参见庖丁解牛http://forum.chasedream.com/dispbbs.asp?BoardID=23&ID=103101&replyID=&skin=0)
但是因为这一题时态相同,主语单复数不一致,所以as后面要补出主语,that flourished和前面相同就省略了
open to discuss
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