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PREP 08 TEST1-191 关于such的问题

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11#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 20:37:19 | 只看该作者
看了所有的关于这个问题的帖子,还是没有弄明白,因此发帖求助,望各位TX NN解惑191.
The loan companyannounced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of theirnot paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprimelending market.
A.    of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.    of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.    of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.    that they do not pay back their loans on time,    
E.     that they do not payback their loans on time, such a group
OA:B
疑问,关于E中such 用法的错误
CD论坛中所有涉及到这个问题的帖子如下:
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-590940-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-580267-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-515227-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-371566-3-1.html
Ron的解释如下:
as long as you mentionsome specific "X" earlier in the sentence, then "such an X"is fine, yes.
another example:
i have no problem with using a standard geometry textbook; indeed, sucha book is helpful in providing ready-made sets of practice problems.
--> "such a book" is legitimate because the sentence has mentioneda particular book (namely, a standard geometry textbook).


Ron给的这个例句,"such a book"中的"such"有for example的意思,我觉得相当于"A book such as the fore-mentioned book"
但英语里通常不会像我刚才这么说,太繁琐了,而直接说"such a book",但意思就是我那么说的"such as"这个意思

那么回到原句,如果你说"such a group",就是指前面所述的group是known as "
the subprime lending market"的一个特例。而如果用同位语,那就说这个group本身known as "the subprime lending market"

所以,语法上没错,如Ron所说,只要你前面提到某个特定的book,你就可以说"such a book" bla bla. 不过意思上,"such a group"和同位语的"a group"是有区别的。

这题我个人觉得前面那个split更明显,就是of not paying back their loan on time,而不是"
that they do not payback their loans on time". "do not payback"时态严重错误,用records of doing sth很精确的表达了意思。

我的疑问:我明白such + noun的话,那么这个noun或者这个noun所指代的事物必须在such之前的句子中出现,但是在这个题目中
The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records 中这个borrowers不就是后面的这个group所来代指的内容么?那么such的使用为啥就不对了啊??(有些解释说such必须genthat连用就太牵强了吧)
求解惑

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/5/10 23:30:30)



-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/5/11 17:19:21)



那么回到原句,如果你说"such a group",就是指前面所述的group是known as "the subprime lending market"的一个特例。而如果用同位语,那就说这个group本身known as "the subprime lending market"
细细体会这句话以后明白啦!
就是不一样,一个是说such a group意思是说:一些group例如这个blah blah  是market;而a group的意思是说:就是前面句子中这个borrowers自身是market
大爱baby姐姐!
oh yeah~
12#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 20:42:22 | 只看该作者
我认为从意思层面上区别such a group和a group。
至于童鞋说的“a group不是指borrowers,而是指前面的贷款公司借款给那些不能及时还款的人而形成的市场。”我不太同意哦。因为我们知道同位语的用法就是概括总结描述其前面的句子或者句子中的成分,所以这里的group代指的就是前面句子中出现的那些borrowers(borrowers with proven records of not paying back their loans on time——其中with介宾短语作定语限定性修饰borrowers)了啊。
不知道你同意否。
而你说的a group是形成的市场,是没有,但是后面的collectively known as the subprime lending market.是对这个group的提供的进一步描述和修饰,在指代层面来说,a group无疑是指代前面的borrowers的。
这里的a group不是指borrowers,而是指前面的贷款公司借款给那些不能及时还款的人而形成的市场。所以不能用such来指代,因为前面没有确切提到这个事物,而是作者在描述完以后deduce出来的一个新事物。
-- by 会员 winy (2012/5/11 18:53:08)

13#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 20:47:38 | 只看该作者
看了所有的关于这个问题的帖子,还是没有弄明白,因此发帖求助,望各位TX NN解惑191.
The loan companyannounced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of theirnot paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprimelending market.
A.    of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.    of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.    of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.    that they do not pay back their loans on time,    
E.     that they do not payback their loans on time, such a group
OA:B
疑问,关于E中such 用法的错误
CD论坛中所有涉及到这个问题的帖子如下:
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-590940-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-580267-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-515227-1-1.html?SearchText=191
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-371566-3-1.html
Ron的解释如下:
as long as you mentionsome specific "X" earlier in the sentence, then "such an X"is fine, yes.
another example:
i have no problem with using a standard geometry textbook; indeed, sucha book is helpful in providing ready-made sets of practice problems.
--> "such a book" is legitimate because the sentence has mentioneda particular book (namely, a standard geometry textbook).


Ron给的这个例句,"such a book"中的"such"有for example的意思,我觉得相当于"A book such as the fore-mentioned book"
但英语里通常不会像我刚才这么说,太繁琐了,而直接说"such a book",但意思就是我那么说的"such as"这个意思

那么回到原句,如果你说"such a group",就是指前面所述的group是known as "
the subprime lending market"的一个特例。而如果用同位语,那就说这个group本身known as "the subprime lending market"

所以,语法上没错,如Ron所说,只要你前面提到某个特定的book,你就可以说"such a book" bla bla. 不过意思上,"such a group"和同位语的"a group"是有区别的。

这题我个人觉得前面那个split更明显,就是of not paying back their loan on time,而不是"
that they do not payback their loans on time". "do not payback"时态严重错误,用records of doing sth很精确的表达了意思。

我的疑问:我明白such + noun的话,那么这个noun或者这个noun所指代的事物必须在such之前的句子中出现,但是在这个题目中
The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records 中这个borrowers不就是后面的这个group所来代指的内容么?那么such的使用为啥就不对了啊??(有些解释说such必须genthat连用就太牵强了吧)
求解惑

-- by 会员 zhongshanlh (2012/5/10 23:30:30)



-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/5/11 17:19:21)

baby姐姐,和teddyMM讨论问题的时候发现最近比较长的一段时间了论坛的提醒功能出问题了,就是如果不是我本人发的帖子,在其他童鞋的帖子中,即使我引用或者回复了你的留言,但是在你登陆论坛的时候好像很多时候论坛是不会提醒的。。。。然后好多帖子我发现是时间略早一些你们的讨论,可能你不会回去看了,然后俺有时候留了言就被.....但是又不好意思经常私信姐姐。。。觉得占用你的时间。。。。。
14#
发表于 2012-5-11 20:54:58 | 只看该作者
baby姐的解答我也懂啦~~~~真开心!

我也不提示,肿么回事啊~~~
15#
发表于 2012-5-11 21:14:04 | 只看该作者
童协,可是后面是the subprime lending market,你觉得,只有borrowers没有lenders,能成为一个market吗?
所以such指代borrowers在逻辑上是说不通的。
16#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 22:00:37 | 只看该作者
这个问题我觉得我们甚至可以放在中文的语义中讨论。
我自己随便举一个例子:
比如说 我们是一个出版商,最近我们出了一本关于OG13的辅导书,那么很多在准备GMAT的备考人员就是我们潜在的市场(这里的市场就可以理解为我们潜在的客户,就如同中文中的所谓是市场,market这个词同样可以这么理解)
不知道这里说你是否能接受?
童协,可是后面是the subprime lending market,你觉得,只有borrowers没有lenders,能成为一个market吗?
所以such指代borrowers在逻辑上是说不通的。
-- by 会员 winy (2012/5/11 21:14:04)

17#
发表于 2012-5-11 22:20:28 | 只看该作者
your conclusion is unfounded, because you have made the mistake of changing the concept of the "market" I mentioned.
你说的销售的可能性和机会,而我说的市场是由供求双方组成的有某种固定联系的场所或组织的合称。这道题很明显是指后一种解释啊。虽然字面上都叫市场,但是含义却不同。
18#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 22:41:07 | 只看该作者
so ,it seems that we can not reach agreement on this issue here.
then ,according to ur understanding of the word "market" here, pls clarify what does the word "a group" refer to in the correct sentence and , also, pls make an explanation about the grammar rule on which the use of the "a group" is based.
i am looking forward ur reply.


your conclusion is unfounded, because you have made the mistake of changing the concept of the "market" I mentioned.
你说的销售的可能性和机会,而我说的市场是由供求双方组成的有某种固定联系的场所或组织的合称。这道题很明显是指后一种解释啊。虽然字面上都叫市场,但是含义却不同。
-- by 会员 winy (2012/5/11 22:20:28)

19#
发表于 2012-5-11 23:02:41 | 只看该作者
a group指虽然borrowers未能及时还款而loan company继续借款给borrowers的市场。
a group在这里是一个名词独立结构,对前面的内容进行补充说明。
20#
 楼主| 发表于 2012-5-11 23:17:53 | 只看该作者
"名词独立结构"是指独立主格?(按照你对于a group的解析,那这里的group肯定不能是同位语了吧,因为同位语的话就会是对borrowers的指代了。)
如果是为独立主格的话,独立主格是作为句子的状语的,放在这里也说不太通
a group指虽然borrowers未能及时还款而loan company继续借款给borrowers的市场。
a group在这里是一个名词独立结构,对前面的内容进行补充说明。
-- by 会员 winy (2012/5/11 23:02:41)

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