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标题: although省略问题 [打印本页]

作者: Spencer125 时间: 2013-7-7 21:59
标题: although省略问题
Sunspots, vortices of gas associated with strong electromagnetic activity, are visible as dark spots on
the surface of the Sun but have never been sighted on the Sun’s poles or equator.

(A) are visible as dark spots on the surface of the Sun but have never been sighted on
(B) are visible as dark spots that never have been sighted on the surface of the Sun
(C) appear on the surface of the Sun as dark spots although never sighted at
(D) appear as dark spots on the surface of the Sun, although never having been sighted at
(E) appear as dark spots on the Sun’s surface, which have never been sighted on
这道题目正确答案是A,我选的是C
OG对C的解释是:Although typically introduces a subordinate clause, which has a subject and a verb, but here there is no subject and sighted is not a complete verb.
为什么不能把C看作是省略主语吖?
难道although必须要有主语？可是OG48有一题也考了though，其实一个正确选项是 Though called a sea, the landlocked Caspian is actually the largest lake on Earth, covering more than four times the surface area of its closest rival in size, North America's Lake Superior. 这里though不就是省略了Caspian sea吗？为何又是对的了？？？？

作者: Spencer125 时间: 2013-7-8 21:29
UPPPPPPPPPPPP~~~~~~~~~~

作者: 苏木苏木 时间: 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这两个clause的根本属性不一样，前者是一个分词从句，后者是一个完整的主句，因为如果按C中的表述句子应该是appear和was sighted并列才对，那就应该是“although was never sighted at”，was不能省，去掉了was这个就变成了分词从句，但分词从句怎么能这么跟主句并列？所以although引导的这个句子就错了，并不是说although后不能省略主语。。
至于要是lz问C项加上was之后对不对，我就不敢说了。。

作者: Spencer125 时间: 2013-7-8 23:23

苏木苏木发表于 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这 ...

你太牛了。学习学习。非常赞同你的说法。

作者: yy20 时间: 2013-8-26 19:43

苏木苏木发表于 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这 ...

请问visible 和appear有区别么？可以用这两个词来判断么？

作者: paopao1124 时间: 2013-9-10 10:10
我的理解

Although用法：1.although + 主谓宾（句子） 2.although + 短语：短语要是能跟前面平行的东西，否侧不能加短语。

以下这段话是来自曼哈顿instructor的解释，可以看一看帮助理解
Eg: A recent poll indicates that many people in the United States hold a combination of conservative and liberal political views; i.e., they denounce big government, saying government is doing too much and has become too powerful, while at the same time supporting many specific government programs for health care, education, and the environment.

Here also, after the while  we don't have an active verb, but still the construction is correct.

That's a bit different example. In the question you posted, there is clear parallelism between "saying government is doing too much and has become too powerful, while at the same time supporting many specific government programs..."

In this sentence, there's nothing to make parallel to sighted. "Sunspots appear on the surface although never sighted" You could get away with changing the second part to a prepositional phrase, such as: "sunspots appear on the surface although not at the poles". Instead, A gives us two clear verbs to make parallel.

作者: coconutmi 时间: 2013-9-18 12:45

苏木苏木发表于 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这 ...

喜欢这个解释~~~

不过我有个理解, 主动语态和被动语态的平行结构,不如2个同样主动态或同样被动态的平行结构好,因为动作的发出者不同, 你怎么看?

作者: coconutmi 时间: 2013-9-18 12:49

yy20 发表于 2013-8-26 19:43
请问visible 和appear有区别么？可以用这两个词来判断么？

我想最基本的区别在于, appear是动词主动语态，be visible(adj.) 其实是被动含义(被别人看到)~ 所以我也会从平行角度比较这2种选项~

作者: yy20 时间: 2013-9-18 20:39

coconutmi 发表于 2013-9-18 12:49
我想最基本的区别在于, appear是动词主动语态，be visible(adj.) 其实是被动含义(被别人看到)~ 所以我也 ...

精彩！因为动作的发出者不同这个解释太棒了！可是你是怎么样当时就想到这种深层次的平行的呢？OG解释好像是说他们没有区别，不过说的好像也是visible和appear没区别，我根本想不到这么多。。。请再赐教！

作者: qsjvicky 时间: 2013-9-18 20:53
表示时间/条件/转折/让步的连词(when/while/if/unless/although/even though/even if) + 形容词短语/-ing短语/-ed短语
也就是说这些词省略的时候相当于省略了be动词，只有在主系表结构才可以省略~

作者: coconutmi 时间: 2013-9-18 23:37

yy20 发表于 2013-9-18 20:39
精彩！因为动作的发出者不同这个解释太棒了！可是你是怎么样当时就想到这种深层次的平行的呢？OG解释好像 ...

其实吧。。。我是看Og上这题的解释，写着visible是形容词，和过去分词sighted平行。。也许我们就当是形容性词平行理解更方便点。

另外我曾在OG看到过一题因为主动被动语态而不平行的问题，但今天木有翻到，回头找到了给你看

作者: yy20 时间: 2013-9-18 23:58

coconutmi 发表于 2013-9-18 23:37
其实吧。。。我是看Og上这题的解释，写着visible是形容词，和过去分词sighted平行。。也许我们就当是形容 ...

谢谢解答！
感觉你语法很牛！

作者: coconutmi 时间: 2013-9-27 15:13

yy20 发表于 2013-9-18 20:39
精彩！因为动作的发出者不同这个解释太棒了！可是你是怎么样当时就想到这种深层次的平行的呢？OG解释好像 ...

亲,我这个解释值得推敲哈,我刚发现我问Ron的帖子他回了，他说主被动不影响平行:http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post89768.html?hilit=&sid=0b99000d7781445bb39b18a2153f6fd9#p89768 这个帖子最后一楼是他说的。

作者: OwenBBB 时间: 2013-9-28 00:05
楼主这样看吧，如果我把although移开，明显地，就是个过去分词短语，这就是转折词+省略的原义。过去分词放在句末的话，会产生各样的修饰歧义。个人认为，如果把这个although省略句，放在句首，它就100%修饰sunspots，不考虑原文内容的主次问题的话，语法上没问题

作者: ashlyzhu 时间: 2013-9-28 07:15

苏木苏木发表于 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这 ...

OG对C的解释是:Although typically introduces a subordinate clause, which has a subject and a verb, but here there is no subject and sighted is not a complete verb.
og这样说什么意思（是因为Although后面没有主语，所以错）。。og真是误导人啊。。。不过我觉得你说的很对啊。。。

作者: ashlyzhu 时间: 2013-9-28 07:30

苏木苏木发表于 2013-7-8 22:47
个人拙见。。
lz拿这两个句子的类比不甚恰当， “Though called a sea”和“although never sighted at”这 ...

再问一个问题啊：although 可以连从句吗？
可是C选项为什么不能把它although never sighted at ..当做从句呢？？？

作者: 兰心寒 时间: 2013-11-7 10:28
所以C选项的错误其实是，就算省主语，也不能省谓语are/have been是吗？

作者: 暗香明月 时间: 2018-7-26 22:11
也就是说 while although存在的考点其实也是平行咯

作者: 慢腾腾的老鼠 时间: 2018-9-6 07:05
我想问一下，如果在although前加一个逗号，那么C是否是正确的？

作者: 蟹黄味蚕豆 时间: 2018-9-6 11:51

Spencer125 发表于 2013-7-8 23:23
你太牛了。学习学习。非常赞同你的说法。

加上was 个人认为也是不对的， never imply的是过去发生的事情对现在的影响，也就是说现在也还是没有看到。所以不省略的情况下，应该是 although sunspots have never been spotted。
但是省略的时候，只能省略主语以及be动词，对于have这样的助动词以及could这样的情态动词是不能省略的，因为省略了以后句子的意思就是完全不一样的意思了。

作者: AMBER513 时间: 2019-9-8 10:20
1."although xxxx" 在句子之前：
• if "(al)though xxxx" PRECEDES the sentence, then "xxxx" can be either a complete sentence or an adjective/modifier.
e.g.,
(Al)though James has never been formally trained in medicine, he is able to identify a wide variety of maladies.
("although" + complete sentence; precedes the main sentence)
also see OG SC problem #39 (can't reproduce here)

(Al)though not formally trained in medicine, James is able to identify a wide variety of maladies.
("although" + adjective-type modifier; precedes the main sentence)
also see OG SC problem #48 (can't reproduce here)

2. "although xxxx" 在句子之中
if "(al)though xxxx" INTERRUPTS the sentence, then "xxxx" should be only a modifier. in this case, "xxxx" should NOT be a complete sentence.

^^ this is something i discovered just now. despite trying, i wasn't able to make a good sentence that's interrupted by "(al)though + complete sentence". i can't guarantee that this is a "rule", though i can vouch for it with a reasonable degree of certainty.

e.g.,
if the interruption follows a noun, then you should have a modifier that describes the noun (adjective-type modifier):
Paula, though exhausted, managed to stay awake through her son's entire piano recital.

if the interruption follows a verb, you should have a modifier that describes the verb (adverb-type modifier):
Audrey just admitted, though inadvertently, how she really feels about her mother-in-law.

also see OG SC problem #36 (can't reproduce here)

3."although xxxx" 在句子之后
• if "although xxxx" FOLLOWS the sentence, then "xxxx" should be a complete sentence. in this case, "xxxx" should not be a modifier/adjective.

(i assume this construction is familiar enough to make examples unnecessary. if you need examples, just say so in a response)

^^ this one is what's relevant to the particular problem at hand. as with the idea above, this is another incidental "discovery" that i can't %100 guarantee is actually a "rule".

--

and here's the weirdest discovery of all: if "though" (NOT "although") follows the sentence, it IS allowed to introduce a modifier.
in this case, the modifier should be an adverb-type modifier; in other words, it should describe the entire action that precedes it.

e.g.,
I wear swimsuits often, though never for actual swimming; I just lie out in the sun.

作者: AMBER513 时间: 2019-9-8 10:20
there's also a problem of meaning. it's not a huge glaring issue, but it's still an issue.

the basic meaning of "xxxx, although yyyy" / "although yyyy, xxxx" is...
"yyyy" is something that makes "xxxx" seem unlikely (or, at the very least, less likely than it would otherwise seem), but, nevertheless, "xxxx" is true.

the way those answer choices are written, they don't make literal sense:
Sunspots are visible as dark spots ..., (al)though ... never sighted at the Sun's poles or equator
--> this sentence doesn't fit the template above. i.e., the fact that sunspots have never been sighted at the sun's poles or equator doesn't reduce the likelihood that they appear as dark spots.

importantly, the main clause DOES NOT just say that the sunspots appear on the surface of the sun. that, by contrast, would actually make sense here.
the problem is that the main clause describes the specific physical appearance of the spots ("as dark spots"), and thus doesn't create a proper contrast anymore.

作者: AMBER513 时间: 2019-9-8 10:22
以上是RON的解答

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