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作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-6 17:17
标题: One question in GWD(Ask for help)

Q30

P-17

The new image ofStone Age people as systematic hunters of large animals, rather than merelyscavenging for meat, have emerged from the examination of tools found inGermany, including three wooden spears that archaeologists believe to beabout 400,000 years old.

A. merely scavenging for meat, have emergedfrom the examination of tools found in Germany, including

B. as merely scavenging for meat, have emergedfrom examining tools found in Germany, which include

C. as mere meat scavengers, has emerged fromexamining tools found in Germany that includes

D. mere scavengers of meat, has emerged from theexamination of tools found in Germany, which includes

E. mere scavengers of meat, hasemerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, including

Hi all, I've been frequently troubled by choice found in this one-choice between "which clause" and "Ving clause". Can any one help clarify? When which clause can be used and when it should be prohibited. Thanks in advance!

作者: enkyklios 时间: 2013-6-6 18:59
我认为这个和which ving区别无关，
只是which用错了第三人称单数。因为which是指代tools的

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-8 17:00

enkyklios 发表于 2013-6-6 18:59
我认为这个和which ving区别无关，
只是which用错了第三人称单数。因为which是指代tools的
...

Ok 谢谢~其实看了很多论坛上说which在这里是指代Germany，说是指代的ambiguity,但是没有什么官方的说法...

作者: enkyklios 时间: 2013-6-8 17:02

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:00
Ok 谢谢~其实看了很多论坛上说which在这里是指代Germany，说是指代的ambiguity,但是没有什么官方的说法.. ...

我觉得不会

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-8 17:10

enkyklios 发表于 2013-6-8 17:02
我觉得不会

Ok ~那么继续探讨下哈，如果D是include，是否D，E选项都正确？这两个句式在表达上是否有其它区别呢？谢谢~

作者: enkyklios 时间: 2013-6-8 17:13

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:10
Ok ~那么继续探讨下哈，如果D是include，是否D，E选项都正确？这两个句式在表达上是否有其它区别呢？谢谢 ...

一个介词短语作定语，一个是从句作定语我觉得区别不大。你觉得哩

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-8 17:22

enkyklios 发表于 2013-6-8 17:13
一个介词短语作定语，一个是从句作定语我觉得区别不大。你觉得哩

噢，这样，明白了~including其实在这边属于Preposition，定语从句修饰之前的成分，和所谓的ing结构无关。我觉得你说的靠谱

作者: Hliujing 时间: 2013-6-8 17:25
这题选啥啊。。

作者: enkyklios 时间: 2013-6-8 17:26

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:22
噢，这样，明白了~including其实在这边属于Preposition，定语从句修饰之前的成分，和所谓的ing结构无关。 ...

，

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-8 17:29

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:22
噢，这样，明白了~including其实在这边属于Preposition，定语从句修饰之前的成分，和所谓的ing结构无关。 ...

补充一点点，Manhattan上刚看到的，除去介词做定语和which从句定语修饰tools的其它区别，可能有的细微区别，希望对有同样困惑的人有帮助：

Hi,

I remember that some time if the thing before the ",which" is appositive phrase, which can modify the NOUN before the phrase. So if the ",which includes" in D change to ",which include" will it be correct?

it would still be inferior, though for reasons that are probably too subtle to be tested on the gmat.
specifically, if you had "tools, which include X", then the implication would be that X is actually a component of each tool. (for instance, "...tools, which include carbon-fiber handles" --> each of the tools includes a carbon-fiber handle.)
by contrast, "tools, including X" implies that X is one of the tools.

Quote:
is "including" in E somehow may modify the subject of the sentence?

Thanks

nope -- "including" is an exception to the usual comma -ing rules.
the best way to think about "including" is to consider it a preposition, i.e., don't think about it as a -ing construction at all.

usually, comma + "including" refers to the noun or noun phrase that is located before the comma, as it does in the correct answer here.

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作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-8 17:32

Hliujing 发表于 2013-6-8 17:25
这题选啥啊。。

E.............

作者: Hliujing 时间: 2013-6-8 18:17

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:32
E.............

ving 和定语从句区别是 Ving修饰句子做结果状语或伴随状语但是定从只是修饰某个名词哦修饰范围不一样。但是这道题要另眼看待，因为 including你不能把他看做分词做状语!
including 这个词语本身就是一个新的介词

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-9 22:00

Hliujing 发表于 2013-6-8 18:17
ving 和定语从句区别是 Ving修饰句子做结果状语或伴随状语但是定从只是修饰某个名词哦修饰范围不一 ...

恩，通过这道题知道了including是个介词~~
通过阁下的说法：
1. Ving bla bla应该将其看做一个状语而不是从句
2. 因为Ving是和句子发生关系，所以不需要任何明显的referent?但是要保证两者在逻辑上要cohesive？
3. which是修饰某个名词，所以要有明显的referent?

关于referent有这样种说法：ving的referent都是主句的主语，而which多是就近指代。
Eg. The new image of Stone Age people have emerged from the examination of tools found in Germany, representing a vivid life pattern at that time.
那么如果原句作此改动，representing就是一个伴随状语，其referent只能是主句的主语the image而不可能和tool有关？
在做这题时就是一看到including....就去找主句主语，一看不合理就排除了...当然现在知道了including在这里是一个介词，又另当别论了。

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-11 21:10

云游发表于 2013-6-9 22:00
恩，通过这道题知道了including是个介词~~
通过阁下的说法：
1. Ving bla bla应该将其看做一个状语而不是 ...

Dude 2 things -

Abstract nouns modifying the entire clause (after a comma)

The coach tried to put 5 receivers on the line, a strategy that failed.

Appositives rename noun phrases and are usually placed beside what they rename.

I dated salma hayek, a great actor

The Bold after the comma modifier the bold before the comma in the above examples

COMMA ING modifying Noun -

Driving through the wood, jake reached home an hour early
Language variations originating from the west are very difficult to comprehend

Driving through the wood modifies "JAKE"
originating from the west modifies "Language variations"

COMMA VERBING MODIFYING the complete clause

I studied 2 hrs extra every day during semesters, graduating a year early from college.

graduating a year early from college modifies "I studied 2 hrs extra every day during semesters" , is also the effect of clause "I studied..." , MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause and APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause.

DONE.

网上看到自己要的答案，贴在这里。

作者: 云游 时间: 2013-6-11 21:14

云游发表于 2013-6-11 21:10
Dude 2 things -

Abstract nouns modifying the entire clause (after a comma)

Comma, -ing既可以表示做伴随；也可以修饰名词。

作者: Hliujing 时间: 2013-6-14 10:02

云游发表于 2013-6-9 22:00
恩，通过这道题知道了including是个介词~~
通过阁下的说法：
1. Ving bla bla应该将其看做一个状语而不是 ...

天啊。好多内容。。。你想表达什么呢。。能每次讨论一个不。

作者: szuo002 时间: 2013-8-27 14:57

云游发表于 2013-6-8 17:29
补充一点点，Manhattan上刚看到的，除去介词做定语和which从句定语修饰tools的其它区别，可能有的细微区 ...

这是我看到的最好的解释！多谢！

作者: szuo002 时间: 2013-8-27 14:59

云游发表于 2013-6-11 21:10
Dude 2 things -

Abstract nouns modifying the entire clause (after a comma)

多谢！但这个似乎挖的太深了，我觉得好像GMAT里考ING更多还是做伴随的情况多，重点是考察动作发出者以及修饰整个动作是否都逻辑。除了这个including……

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