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标题: 求问一题!with独立主格 PK 定从跳跃修饰 谁更没有歧义 [打印本页]

作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-9 11:38
标题: 求问一题!with独立主格 PK 定从跳跃修饰 谁更没有歧义
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the braches, whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.

(A) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang
(B) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs were hanging
(C) saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(D) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
(E) seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs have hung

查了好多帖子啊,包括manhattan里ron大神的解释还是搞不清,越来越觉得E比D 更没有歧义一些啊。
求NN解释!

这里的with是个独立主格结构,with+n+doing, 那么做状语修饰V, 不就是修饰 visitor  have seen吗?
whose 这个跳跃 一个介词短语 修饰mokey, OG里的题不就经常会有跳跃一个介词修饰之前的名词吗。

D,E 反正都有歧义,可是为啥D就比E 好????????????

作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-11 02:56
og27. Published in Harlem, the owner and editor of the Messenger were two young journalists. Chandler Owen j and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader.


(A)  Published in Harlem, the owner and editor of the Messenger were two young journalists. Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader.



(B)   Published in Harlem, two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, were the owner and editor of the Messenger.



(C)  Published in Harlem, the Messenger was owned and edited by two young journalists, A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, and Chandler Owen.

Marconi’s conception of the radio was as a substitute for the telephone, a tool for private conversation; instead, it is precisely the opposite, a tool for communicating with a large, public audience.

A,Marconi’s conception of the radio was as a substitute for the telephone, a tool for private conversation; instead, it is

B,Marconi conceived of the radio as a substitute for the telephone, a tool for private conversation, but which is

C,Marconi conceived of the radio as a tool for private conversation that could substitute for the telephone; instead, it has become

D,Marconi conceived of the radio to be a tool for private conversation, a substitute for the telephone, which has become

E,Marconi conceived of the radio to be a substitute for the telephone, a tool for private conversation, other than what it is,

答案为C。 B为啥不好?



(D)  The Messenger was owned and edited by two young journalists. Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, and published in Harlem.



(E)   The owner and editor being two young journalists, Chandler Owen and A. Philip Randolph, who would later make his reputation as a labor leader, the Messenger was published in Harlem.



Choices A and B present dangling modifiers that illogically suggest that Owen and Randolph, rather than the Messenger, were published in Harlem. In D, the phrase and published in Harlem is too remote from the Messenger to modify it effectively. In E, being produces an awkward construction, and the placement of the main clause at the end of the sen­tence is confusing. Only in C, the best answer, is Published in Harlem followed immediately by the Messenger. Also, C makes it clear that the clause beginning who refers to Randolph.




AB里面不讨论逻辑主语的问题, 关于这个A and B , who的修饰问题.

首先大家看几个题:

128. New hardy varieties of rice show promise of pro­ducing high yields without the costly requirements of irrigation and application of commercial fertilizer by earlier high-yielding varieties.



(A)  requirements of irrigation and application of commercial fertilizer by earlier high-yielding varieties




(B)   requirements by earlier high-yielding varieties of application of commercial fertilizer and irrigation




(C)  requirements for application of commercial fertilizer and irrigation of earlier high-yielding varieties




(D)  application of commercial fertilizer and irriga­tion that was required by earlier high-yielding varieties




(E)   irrigation and application of commercial fertil­izer that were required by earlier high-yielding varieties


正确答案是E, 这里很明显that were有强制指代前面的irrigation and application,而且也只有这样, 不然were说不通.


205. The peaks of a mountain range, acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them; the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, are known as "standing waves."




(A)  crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, are




(B)  crests and troughs that remain stationary although they are formed by rapidly moving air, are




(C)  crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is




(D)  stationary crests and troughs although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, are




(E)   stationary crests and troughs although they are formed by rapidly moving air, is





答案是C,根据句意也可以判断出后置的定从指代前面crests and troughs 这个整体


现在问题出来了,为什么OG27可以说在不存在强制指代,也不是指代整体的情况下就说可以指代A of B中的A呢?

113. Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the branches. whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.



(A)  saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang



(B)   saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs were hanging



(C)  saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging



(D)  seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging



(E)   seen monk eys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs have hung



Choices A, B, and C use have ... saw where have ... seen is required. Choices A, B, and E awkwardly separate the relative clause beginning whose arms and legs ... from monkeys, the noun it modifies. Choices A and E also confusingly use the present tense hang and the present perfect have hung, respectively; neither verb conveys clearly that, at the time the monkeys were spotted sleeping, their arms and legs were hanging in the manner described. Choice D, the best answer, not only forms a correct and clear sentence by supplying the present perfect verb have ... seen, but also solves the problem of the whose ... clause by using the appropriately placed adverbial phrase with arms and legs hanging... to modify sleeping.

这个题目里面monkey和whoes中间有一个braches, 如果说可以跳越的话, 那为什么OG解释说错了?114. From the bark of the paper birch tree the Menomini crafted a canoe about twenty feet long and two feet wide, with small ribs and rails of cedar, which could carry four persons or eight hundred pounds of baggage so light that a person could easily portage it around impeding rapids.



(A)  baggage so light



(B)   baggage being so light



(C)  baggage, yet being so light



(D)  baggage, and so light



(E)   baggage yet was so light



红色的which在肯定是修饰canoe, 居然中间那些插入的名词全都不是歧义?!跳那么远?!



请教大家!!! 同时大家对于定从的指代有什么看法, 尤其是跳越的, 都一起发出来吧, 我们大家合力一个帖子解决掉!!

跳跃修饰也是个问题!应该有大牛专门开个专题
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-11 05:45
但是就本题而言其实还是比较清楚的,E不是有歧义的问题,而是指代错误的问题。
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-12 10:26
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-11 05:45
但是就本题而言其实还是比较清楚的,E不是有歧义的问题,而是指代错误的问题。 ...

什么指代错误啊?whose 指代branches?指代错误?可是为什么不能whose 跳过on the branches 直接修饰monkey呢?求解释
作者: renita12    时间: 2013-5-12 10:51
ada90 发表于 2013-5-12 10:26
什么指代错误啊?whose 指代branches?指代错误?可是为什么不能whose 跳过on the branches 直接修饰monk ...

指代可以跳过介词,但貌似不能跳过动词吧,monkey后有sleeping~
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-12 11:31
renita12 发表于 2013-5-12 10:51
指代可以跳过介词,但貌似不能跳过动词吧,monkey后有sleeping~

原来是这样,是不是如果是 N+介词短语,which 这种跳跃指代就可以 但是N+其他修饰成分+介词短语,这种被修饰词离which 太远,所以容易出现指代错误问题...
作者: AceJ    时间: 2013-5-12 11:48
同问“跳跃修饰”
作者: renita12    时间: 2013-5-12 14:28
ada90 发表于 2013-5-12 11:31
原来是这样,是不是如果是 N+介词短语,which 这种跳跃指代就可以 但是N+其他修饰成分+介词短语,这种被 ...

对滴~一般只能跳过一个介词短语
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-12 15:21
这个不能按个数论,有的中间有很多介词短语,如果是副词结构的话有多少都可以跳跃。
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-13 10:03
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-12 15:21
这个不能按个数论,有的中间有很多介词短语,如果是副词结构的话有多少都可以跳跃。 ...

啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊,抓住NN,求详细说一下什么样的可以跳跃,什么样的不能跳跃。
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-13 14:43
这个问题太大,必须分门别类的讨论,比如比如主谓结构可以跳跃谓语,比如被动结构可以跳跃,可以跳过很多状语,但是不要跳过名次性成份。例如主谓宾,就极少(gmat中绝对不会)可以跳跃宾语修饰主语,涉及到介词短语分词就稍复杂。但是这里面有以一贯之的技巧就是不能跳过句子中的一个名词性成分去修饰另一个,不管多短都会引起歧义(名词性成分不一定是一个名词,也有可能是一个介词短语也有可能是一个分词),反之即使长也没有问题。 掌握了这个纲领然后在阅读中不断的修正自己理解的偏差,最后你就能明白跳跃修饰的奥义,再遇到跳跃的题你就会火眼金眼分辨那个是正确的跳跃那个是错误的跳跃让这个考点一下子成了一个送分的题。

作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-14 09:58
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-13 14:43
这个问题太大,必须分门别类的讨论,比如比如主谓结构可以跳跃谓语,比如被动结构可以跳跃,可以跳过很多状 ...

啊啊啊啊!谢谢NN!有点懂了!
不过,每次错的比较多的就是跳过介词短语的修饰。还是有点问题。

介词短语除了当主语,或者在主系表里当表语的时候是名词性成分还有什么时候可以是名词性成分啊。。如果是主谓宾+介词短语(而且这个短语末尾是个名词 e.g. in the house)这时候后面如果是“,which”  那么存不存在修饰 house 的歧义呢?还是把介词短语看成一整个,因为是做状语,所以不存在修饰歧义呢?
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-14 10:06
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-13 14:43
这个问题太大,必须分门别类的讨论,比如比如主谓结构可以跳跃谓语,比如被动结构可以跳跃,可以跳过很多状 ...

还有,如果是按名词性划分的话,道题里 monkeys sleeping on the branches,whose...这个不对,那么也就是说跳过名词修饰了,是跳过了哪个名词性成分呢?branches? 这就让我搞不懂什么时候是可以跳过介词短语了......... 要向这样的话,是不是只要介词短语是个N 结尾的,后面“,which” 这种就会产生歧义?
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-14 20:13
ada90 发表于 2013-5-14 10:06
还有,如果是按名词性划分的话,道题里 monkeys sleeping on the branches,whose...这个不对,那么也就 ...

这个题的话其实涉及的是一个宾补的知识,这个如果宾补只是一个分词那就可以跳过去,如果宾补是形容词也可以跳过去,但是像这个题就不行,这就是我说的原则不能跳过名词性成份,宾补有的时候是名词性成分有的时候不是,所以掌握了原则还要在实战中归纳。I find learning English difficult.(difficult是形容词做宾补)I saw the kite up and down.(up and down是副词做宾补)
我明白你最大的困惑在于为什么 有的介词短语可以跳过有的不行,这就在于一定要分清介词短语的成份,定语状语可以跳过,但绝不要跳过宾补(其实有例外,我甚至见过从句尾跳过主谓宾去修饰句首状语的。这时它的先行词很容易辩认,但这样用可以说是不规范的,也不被语法书推荐,在gmat很规范不会出现

这个可以专门弄个贴子,系统的讲解一下。其实这个问题是很多人的困惑。但只是理论还不完善,
作者: bacchos    时间: 2013-5-14 22:03
ada90 发表于 2013-5-13 10:03
啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊,抓住NN,求详细说一下什么样的可以跳跃,什么样的不能跳跃。 ...

http://forum.chasedream.com/foru ... 3%E4%BF%AE%E9%A5%B0
http://forum.chasedream.com/foru ... h%E7%94%A8%E6%B3%95
看一下这两个帖子。。这块就清楚了
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-15 09:41
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-14 20:13
这个题的话其实涉及的是一个宾补的知识,这个如果宾补只是一个分词那就可以跳过去,如果宾补是形容词也可 ...

嗯,这次真的懂了。搞了半天是宾补结构啊,NN讲的好清楚。无比感谢!!!!!!!!!原来宾补成分也算是名词性成分,之前这个不知道。
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-5-15 19:26
ada90 发表于 2013-5-15 09:41
嗯,这次真的懂了。搞了半天是宾补结构啊,NN讲的好清楚。无比感谢!!!!!!!!!原来宾补成分也算是 ...

嗯,希望你能在阅读中继续系统化,如果有新的发现在不要忘了共享哟
作者: kimwang53    时间: 2013-5-15 19:53
这个问题我也问过,后来解决了,不知是否有帮助http://forum.chasedream.com/thread-835460-1-1.html
作者: kimwang53    时间: 2013-5-15 19:56
http://forum.chasedream.com/foru ... 9613&highlight=跳跃修饰

另一个which that的比较。
这题不能问with 独立主格pk which定从,因为本身这里which定从修饰错误不存在pk问题,不过真希望可以见到一个with 独立主格pk which定从的例子
作者: ada90    时间: 2013-5-16 16:04
kimwang53 发表于 2013-5-15 19:56
http://forum.chasedream.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=499613&highlight=跳跃修饰

另一个which that ...

语法这个东西我感觉是先繁后简,关键就看能不能抓住gmac的考核重心,要能抓住了,其实我们纠结的很多模棱两可的东西都不是问题。共同加油啊!
作者: kimwang53    时间: 2013-5-16 21:38
ada90 发表于 2013-5-16 16:04
语法这个东西我感觉是先繁后简,关键就看能不能抓住gmac的考核重心,要能抓住了,其实我们纠结的很多模棱 ...

agree,先繁后简~加油加加油
作者: meiling1994    时间: 2016-11-5 09:33
这个就是whose错误指代
作者: lianhanhua    时间: 2017-2-16 13:05
好像没有看到特别好的回复,那我来回答一下,虽然有些久远。。。
E不是歧义不歧义的问题,E就是错的,whose指代branches啊,你想让它跳过sleeping on the branches吗,这不可以啊。当然如果你非要用whose这种结构,把sleeping on the branches放在whose从句之后这也是不合适的。所以,其实在这里用这种结构就是不好的。
再看D,啊with修饰前面的动词,前面的动词是什么?sleeping啊 这没什么问题吧。难道seen是动词,sleeping就不是动词了吗?而且sleeping离得更近啊。
最后再说下跳跃修饰的问题,你想啊,当两个修饰语修饰一个东西的时候,如果是你你会怎么写。在句首,可以把两个修饰语放在被修饰词的两边,这是GMAT常干的事情。那在句中或者句尾呢?给谁写这样的句子都得跳跃修饰啊,不然还有别的什么处理办法吗?当然,一般会把限定性强的放得近一些,限定性不强的放得远一些,仅此而已。
作者: lianhanhua    时间: 2017-2-16 13:17
ada90 发表于 2013-5-12 11:31
原来是这样,是不是如果是 N+介词短语,which 这种跳跃指代就可以 但是N+其他修饰成分+介词短语,这种被 ...

再多说一句,在N+介词短语当中,当介词短语修饰的是N的时候可以跳跃,如果修饰的不是N那跳跃也是不好的。选项之间是需要比较的,在MGMAT SC中也有跳跃动词的例子,但是这种结构并不好,如果你非要用这种结构那也只能跳跃动词。但是当选项给出了其他结构的时候,其实就是在告诉你表达同样的意思还可以选择其他句子结构,所以不要抓着单个选项不放,要在选项之间进行比较,找到最优解。
作者: SLBCDG    时间: 2018-11-17 21:16
enkyklios 发表于 2013-5-15 19:26
嗯,希望你能在阅读中继续系统化,如果有新的发现在不要忘了共享哟

我有点不太明白,我觉得这道题 sleeping on the branches 应该是后置定语吧,我认为是在修饰猴子啊。希望NN对这种判断方法再发表点意见
作者: Mockingbird1    时间: 2018-11-29 02:32
其实理解跨越修饰的核心目的很重要:既然跨越修饰存在的意义是一种妥协,那么就只有当需要妥协的条件出现时,才会不得不妥协对吧。如果是跨越修饰,那么一定是因为要修饰核心词的“which/whose”部分太长,而同时,紧贴核心名词后面的修饰结构(如介词短语)很短,由此所做的妥协。
see monkeys sleeping on the branches,see sb doing sth. 人们不是光看猴子,是看猴子的这个动作的,所以这时候sleeping on the branches不能算作monkeys的后置定语,而是整句话的半个主角了,所以显然不能让它被妥协,因此不存在它被跨越。

由此判断是不是可以跨越修饰时,看是不是可以算作“妥协”,也是一种思路。

至于with arms and legs hanging结构,官方解释修饰 "sleeping","adverbial modifiers do not need to be placed adjacent to the verbs they modify." 这也侧面看出sleeping怎么可能会被跳跃呢,它是不可能被“妥协”哒。




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