各位大牛,剑桥和牛津的MBA相比较,哪个更好呀? - ChaseDream

牛津和剑桥在中国都很有名！尽管MBA的情况不很清楚。但是和美国20多位的MBA比较，我会毫不犹豫选择牛津和剑桥。

以下是引用luingor在2004-12-2 17:56:00的发言：
oxford is better.

以下是引用ZhuangTao在2004-12-2 18:07:00的发言：

牛津和剑桥在中国都很有名！尽管MBA的情况不很清楚。但是和美国20多位的MBA比较，我会毫不犹豫选择牛津和剑桥。

不晓得牛津和剑桥的MBA在欧洲找工作如何?就是在跨国公司中的声誉如何呀?

UK job market does not open door for non-European nationas. you may not expect to much for landing a decent job in UK after completing your MBA even at top tiers such as oxbridge. (LBS may be an exception).

以下是引用lesliejy在2004-12-2 21:52:00的发言：

It makes no much difference actually. Depends on which site you like better. Ox is a city and cam is a small town which is very very charming.

There are a lot of exchanges between the 2 programs and they held a joint recruiting event to put all students together early this spring.

以下是引用ella在2004-12-11 5:39:00的发言：

Cambridge is better in high tech.

It makes no much difference actually. Depends on which site you like better. Ox is a city and cam is a small town which is very very charming.

There are a lot of exchanges between the 2 programs and they held a joint recruiting event to put all students together early this spring.

Now I wonder how big differences exist between OXFORD and LBS and between OXFORD and the US second-tier business schools listed from 11th to 20 th by USNEWS.

it really depends where you want to stay after MBA and which sector you want to stay with. If you want to return to China, then oxbridge should be nice choices. If you want to stay in consulting or banking or in UK, then LBS is certainly a lot better. Ranking does not mean as much when you graduated and you will not care as much of course. It is really hard to compare Cam and Ox, as it is really hard to compare Harvard and MIT and other top US schools.

If you have a clear vision of the career path you will choose after MBA, then it is easier to make decisions on school choices. Ranking for certain year is certainly important,( just like GMAT score means to your application files) it should not be the most important thing to weight your overall decision.

LBS's two year program gives you plenty of time in career devising. The
brand also offers opportunities(in investment banking and consulting)
which are equal to those at top 10 US schools.

If you are really in at Oxford/Cambridge, which are known even to all
high school students in China but whose MBA brands are not very much
valued within the circle, probably you have to think over the pros and
cons of 1 yr program, which poses difficulities in your job search,
both for internship and full-time(there are cases in which Oxford MBAs graduated by enrolling in LBS's Master in Finance Programme).

Insead might be an exception among all one yr European programs because of its internationally recognised brand.

Oxbridge means these two schools have lots of exchange. therefore, it is hard for me and Ella to tell which one is better because we are from these two schools respectively and we both respect each other. do not be misled by ranking. brandname matters. HBS does not care its ranking because it is one of the top b-schools even if it is ranked the last one. ranking sometimes is biased and tricky and can be changed shortly. however, a brandname can only be built over tens or even hundreds of years. LBS also has problem with its Chinese students placements and cut its Chinese student places from 10 to 3 in 2004. placement is a common challenge for Chinese students in European schools.

the brandname of the whole university is important, but when looking for jobs, we are competing in an environment where people know the difference between a university and its bschool. we are not dealing with laymen who are easily fascinated by the big name of a university.

说几句吧。我是去年牛津MBA毕业的。很多人问我，牛津和剑桥比，牛津和LBS比，牛津和北美商学院比。有一句话Ella说得很对，你不告诉我你具体情况怎么比法。是仅仅为了读书，还是为了找工作，还是为了体验生活。。。？我有个同学就为了休息一年，想都没想就申请了牛津，说随便什么专业都可以，只为了出来呆一年。而我们班上很多同学都是同时拿到几个offer的，牛津，LBS，INSEAD，北美的。据我所知，同时拿到牛津和LBS的，一半选择了前者，一半后者。各有所长。

至于排名的，说实话真的是胡扯蛋。最多最多做个参考而已。这玩意儿本来就不科学，不同的排名方法得出的结果相差太大。而且这里每个人选择自己申情的学校都有自己的理由，学校声誉，某方面强项，地理位置，校友实力，很少很少有人很具排名选学校的，连参考的都很少。因为大家心里都有一杆秤这学校大概位于什么样的水平，是1st tier还是2nd tier。而排名的作用也仅此而已。我想之所以有些人那么关注排名主要是因为他们对各个学校一点都不了解，而只能靠排名来衡量高下。(为什么大家高考前填志愿的时候很少有人打听国内学校的排名呀，因为太了解了，无所谓清华北大谁排第一了，考南大复旦的也不会因为北大排名稍高九天北大)。所以大家与其去打听排名还不如好好研究一下各个学校之间的区别。

说了那么多，就来具体比较一下吧。先说牛津和剑桥。老对头了，所以不方便多说，说多了很难不带感情色彩。客观的讲，这两个学校实在太相似了，学生人数，生源比例，教学体系。传统的比较是剑桥理科好，牛津文科强。所以剑桥有不少科学家，而牛津出了更多的首相和政治家。可是这对MBA没什么影响，倒是对本科生影响稍大。另一个区别是，剑桥的商学院博士生较多。牛津的MBA人数比剑桥多。牛津城市较大，比较宏伟，适合在大晴天的时候欣赏。剑桥比较秀丽，有小溪蜿蜒其中，雨中参观尤佳。至于就业，体育等其他方面，没什么好比的，都一样。所以一句话，这两个学校去了任何一所都不会后悔的。再加一句，去了任何一所都不会再想去另一所了。

明天我谈谈牛津和LBS以及INSEAD的区别。可能这个对中国申请者更有参考意义。

学生:
牛津的GMAT分数已经是欧洲第二,排在INSEAD之后,LBS和剑桥之前(W/E年限差不多),这在某种程度上表明学生的质量.(比如,今年CD上有三个人同时拿到牛津和UMBS的OFFER,G平均分>720).
另外,牛津的北美学生比剑桥多一倍,这说明或导致牛津在北美的影响要更强一些,起薪也要高一些.

课程:
差不多, 剑桥的强项是entrepreneurship和technology;
牛津的强项是finance和entrepreneurship.

职业发展:
在校的career service都比较差,但是由于学校的名声太大,以及校友网络太强(比如,在 London的金融机构里,超过一半的是牛津和剑桥的毕业生),他们的就业率(毕业后3个月内)在欧洲的学校里还算比较高的. 比如,牛津好的年份超过95%,前2年在75%左右,超过了LBS和INSEAD.
另一方面,牛津的平均起薪(base pay)这两年也是欧洲最高的(61kGBP),超过剑桥的52kGMB,LBS的55KGBP, INSEAD的60KGBP和IMD的100K$.这跟牛津北美学生多和FINANCE强是相关的.

师资:
也差不多, 剑桥的经济学是世界顶级的;
牛津的也很强,但是她的很多管理层是从LBS过去的,更善于商学院的运作.

发展趋势:
牛津的企图心更强,他们计划5年内稳步的把MBA学生人数提高到300人(今年计划180人,去年计划150, 实际好象才144人).多的学生意味着更多的on campus recruiting, 大的影响力.(世界顶级学校除了IMD外年毕业生都在300人以上). 而且他们也开始重视career service.如果他们能够找到足够好的师资,加上高的GMAT和Start salary, 牛津应该可以在十年内成为欧洲前5的商学院,可以与LBS, INSEAD和IMD比肩.

UK Treasury Ranking focused on quality and productivity of MBA students as measured by their post-graduation salaries and employment.

Derivation of Qualifying Schools
Name                                              Country                Score
Harvard Business School                USA                      9.33
Columbia Business School             USA                      8.93
University of Pennsylvania: Wharton USA                      8.85
IMD                                                 SWI                      8.73
University of Chicago                      USA                      8.52
Dartmouth College:Tuck                USA                      8.50
Stanford University                         USA                      8.27
Insead                                           FR                         7.92
University of Oxford: Said                UK                         7.46
MIT: Sloan                                     USA                         7.46
Ashridge                                        UK                         7.40
North Western: Kellogg                USA                         7.32
London Business School                UK                            6.93
New York University: Stern USA 6.82
University of Strathclyde UK 6.81
Lese Business School SP 6.67
Yale School of Management USA 6.39
Warwick Business School UK 6.34
City University: Cass UK 6.23
Rotterdam School of Management NL 6.22
UC Berkeley: Haas USA 6.20
University of Cambridge: Judge UK 6.13
Georgetown University: McDonough USA 6.02
Instituto de Empresa SP 5.93
Cornell University: Johnson USA 5.86
University of Michigan USA 5.86
Duke University: Fuqua USA 5.85
University of Virginia: Darden USA 5.84
Carnegie Mellon University USA 5.82
SDA Bocconi IT 5.78
Emory University: Goizueta USA 5.73
UCLA: Anderson USA 5.70
Manchester Business School UK 5.67
Cranfield School of Management UK 5.66
University of Toront Rotman CA 5.50
University College Dublin: Smurfit IRE 5.44
University of Southern California: Marshall USA 5.36
University of Rochester: Simon USA 5.34
Vanderbilt University: Owen USA 5.33
Rice University: Jones USA 5.27
University of North Carolina: Kenan-Flagler USA 5.25
Babson College: Olin USA 5.22
Melbourne Business School AU 5.21
Ceibs CHI 5.20
Australian Graduate School of Management AU 5.19
Universiteit Nyenrode NL 5.09

If you are heading to find a job, definitly, American level 2 schools is much better than English schools. Let's say this way, it's impossible to find a job in U.K. even if you have Cam or Oxf MBA programs. Think about your next 10 years, even though you got a job in U.K., your position will never be safety, they can cancel your working permission as long as they want, if you have a child on U.K., you have to wait more than 15 years to let him or her be citizen of U.K.

If you only want to find a job after MBA, I would say Cam or Oxf is less value than a small German MBA schools since all MBAs I know here in Germany at least got a job.

牛剑作为综合大学提供给学生的学术环境是LBS和INSEAD所不能比拟的，而且两所学校独有的学院制也给学生提供了更多和不同学科同学交流的机会，如果你希望从商界以外人身上得到一些知识或者建立一些联系，或者喜欢真正的大学校园而不是像写字楼一样的鸽子笼，牛剑就是你的选择。

至于牛剑之间，牛津历史最长1300年，剑桥是一些受不了牛津严格守旧的制度牛津人创立的，所以两校风格截然不同，没有好坏之分，看你喜欢自由还是严格了。一个小例子：牛剑学生都有特殊的学袍(gown)，用于参加学院正式的晚餐（formal hall），牛津要求学生穿深色晚礼服加gown，一样不符不得参加，参加考试也是同样的要求；剑桥则只保留了穿gown的要求，里面则可着便装，参加考试已经不用穿gown了。所以，在你不好取舍的时候也可以通过学校风格来区分：）

以下是引用Vicm在2005-1-30 0:14:00的发言：

Overal academic reputation may be important, but not so applicable for a one-year business program when a student is fully focused on the intensive business learning and the hectic pursuit of job seeking. While the school may cite this as an advantage, we should be realistic.

以下是引用zdcgy在2005-1-30 3:59:00的发言：

Doing an MBA differs greatly from pursuing a PHD. Even in two-year programmes, you will have to be so much focusing on your job-search all the time that you actually care about nothing else until you really land a position.

以下是引用zdcgy在2005-1-30 3:59:00的发言：

再忙也不至于没时间和人说话吧，宿舍的室友就是很好的交流对象，吃饭时的话题也可以很有收获，通过体育锻炼也可以交朋友。上MBA的目的之一也有学习如何安排自己的时间，利用一切机会和更多的人交流，从这一点上牛剑多元化的学生就是很好的资源

以下是引用Vicm在2005-1-31 2:02:00的发言：

It is virtually impossible to make friends with every one of your MBA classmates, not to mention the multitude of students from other programs. The process of networking really takes time.

What is more, one of the emphases of every MBA program is diversity, which means your classmates come from diverse fronts of life and different undergraduate major. You already have plenty of resources from your classmates in the program.

If you spend four years as an undergraduate, you will definitely benefit a lot from the academic atmosphere of these two universities. But.......

以下是引用zdcgy在2005-1-31 11:41:00的发言：

It is virtually impossible to make friends with every one of your MBA classmates, not to mention the multitude of students from other programs. The process of networking really takes time.

If you spend four years as an undergraduate, you will definitely benefit a lot from the academic atmosphere of these two universities. But.......

但从网上来看，剑桥好象比较OPEN 一些呢。而且居然不要申请费！！

剑桥2004届中国学生（包括香港，台湾）共19名，目前有8个人留在欧洲工作。一年的mba十分紧凑，剑桥mba 的学生人数相对少一点，相对来说有助于交流，彼此也比较团结。

排名是很重要，但排名也绝对不能意味一切。我只能说我个人对于剑桥2004的排名比较失望，但并不意味着它不是一个一流的学校和一个一流的项目。路遥知马力，我对其的未来还是看好的。有点像投资股票，新股的波动性可能大一些，但短期内看涨就买看跌就抛绝对不会被称为好的投资策略。其他的就看个人的眼光和喜好了。