ChaseDream

标题: 请教GWD和prep上的两个问题 [打印本页]

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-18 18:38
标题: 请教GWD和prep上的两个问题
1. GWD21-Q1:

According to analysts, an alliance between three major personal computer companies and most of the nation’s largest local telephone companies would enable customers to receive internet data over regular telephone lines with speeds much higher than is currently possible.

A.with speeds much higher than is

B.with speeds that are much higher than are

C.at much higher speeds as are

D.at much higher speeds than that

E.at speeds much higher than are（E）

问题1、补出原句后再省略和答案不一样：
有NN说，E的原句是：at speeds (that are) much higher than speeds that are currently possible。我觉得第一个that are后面都是speeds的定从，第二个that are是第二个speeds的定语，两个都可省，即at speeds much higher than speeds currently possible。然后speeds又一样，省略，结果就是at speeds much higher than currently possible，但E中多了个are。不太明白这是为什么，是我省略有问题么？想请教下大家
问题2、 D选项中at much higher speeds 和E中at speeds much higher than 有差别么？能不能补出原句让我看下？谢谢大家！

OG251. The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's. .

A.extinction; its numbers are now five times greater than

B.extinction; its numbers are now five times more than

C.extinction, their numbers now fivefold what they were

D.extinction, now with fivefold the numbers they had（A）

E.extinction, now with numbers five times greater than

请问E中这个with做的是伴随状语吗？因为解析说 the phrase confusingly seems to parallel with extinction我就不明白了，什么是parallel... 还有now的用法正确么？本来now是和when..做比较的，现在提到句首来我觉得从句意上理解仍旧是比较哇~

以上就是偶的问题～提前谢过大家啦～Y(^_^)Y

以上就是偶的问题～提前谢过大家啦～Y(^_^)Y

作者: MiaZhang 时间: 2012-11-19 09:42
第一个题目好阴险，我昨天也做错了，今天恰巧在总结
According to analysts, an alliance between three major personal computer companies and most of the nation’s largest local telephone companies would enable customers to receive internet data over regular telephone lines at speeds much higher than are currently possible.
这个里面是speeds的比较:an alliance...would enable customers to receive ...at speeds much higher than are currently possible.
--> an alliance...would enable customers to receive ...at speeds much higher than [speeds( that are) currently possible].
省略了speeds that,只保留了are
我认为，这里的much higher than...都是用来修饰speeds这个名词的，所以不存在有些人说的是与customer的比较
被省略的speeds that里面，that是作为定语从句修饰speeds

D选项，不能用that指代复数名词speeds

类似的，prices are higher than we expected.
--> prices are higher than (prices that) we expected
省略了prices that，直接保留后面的动词

这个结构我们之所以会觉得奇怪，是因为真的很少见

第二个题，前面有has survived a close brush with extinction，如果后面再出现with结构，很像是与with extinction并列
now的用法没问题，时间状语，与when形成比较

作者: kiwifoodtown 时间: 2012-11-19 09:50
问题太多，先讨论第一个问题。

我觉得如果按LZ说的省略的话，前面speeds 后的应该是 would be much higher. 后面才是are. 所以than 后面are 不能省略，强调时态不同。

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-19 12:52

问题太多，先讨论第一个问题。

我觉得如果按LZ说的省略的话，前面speeds 后的应该是 would be much higher. 后面才是are. 所以than 后面are 不能省略，强调时态不同。

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

同学你说的很在理诶，因为时态不同这个are不能省。但是照理说，前面补出后，speeds that would be much higher..这里也不能省略啊

二楼的同学给了个例子：
类似的，prices are higher than we expected.
--> prices are higher than (prices that) we expected
省略了prices that，直接保留后面的动词

为啥他省略前面保留后面啊？

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-19 12:59

第一个题目好阴险，我昨天也做错了，今天恰巧在总结
According to analysts, an alliance between three major personal computer companies and most of the nation’s largest local telephone companies would enable customers to receive internet data over regular telephone lines at speeds much higher than are currently possible.
这个里面是speeds的比较:an alliance...would enable customers to receive ...at speeds much higher than are currently possible.
--> an alliance...would enable customers to receive ...at speeds much higher than [speeds( that are) currently possible].
省略了speeds that,只保留了are
我认为，这里的much higher than...都是用来修饰speeds这个名词的，所以不存在有些人说的是与customer的比较
被省略的speeds that里面，that是作为定语从句修饰speeds

D选项，不能用that指代复数名词speeds

类似的，prices are higher than we expected.
--> prices are higher than (prices that) we expected
省略了prices that，直接保留后面的动词

这个结构我们之所以会觉得奇怪，是因为真的很少见

第二个题，前面有has survived a close brush with extinction，如果后面再出现with结构，很像是与with extinction并列
now的用法没问题，时间状语，与when形成比较

-- by 会员 MiaZhang (2012/11/19 9:42:15)

我看到了你的总结，很棒！
我同意“much higher than...都是用来修饰speeds这个名词的”，不过楼下的同学又提出了关于省略的新看法，有空一起看一看哈~

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-19 13:15
kiwifoodtown同学~我又仔细想了想，我觉得第一个at speeds,这里不是would be much higher。
因为，at speeds that would be much higher，意思是“在这样一个速度下，这个速度在将来会比现在的速度快”
不管是多快的速度，即便现在无法达到，但是不论什么时候，用数字都是可以衡量，即可比较的。“速度 ”这个概念本身没有未来、现在之分。
所以，速度的比较都应该用一般现在时。
我不知道我说没说明白。。。。T^T

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-19 13:22
我认真把Mia的总结贴读了一遍，发现这句话，和我们讨论的差不多：
A large rise in the number of housing starts in the coming year should boost new construction dollars by several billion dollars, making the construction industry’s economic health much more robust than (it was) five years ago.

[it was]不能省略，因为than前面没有相应的状语结构

只不过这句话里保留了it，GWD那道省略了speeds。。

作者: kiwifoodtown 时间: 2012-11-19 14:37

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

想了一下，at speeds (that are) much higher than speeds that are currently possible。应该是正确的还原。
在时态，谓语都一致的情况下，省略掉重复，但又保留基本语义后，就是E了，are 不能省，省略后比较结构的前后都会缺少主要成分可能会引起歧义。

作者: MiaZhang 时间: 2012-11-19 15:15
at speeds much higher than are currently possible
speeds后面没有必要再出现would了，因为前面有would enable cutomers...已经表示将来的时态了

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-11-19 23:40
我觉得DE的now的位置也有点问题。。。。

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-19 23:54
1、关于这道题D选项，我尝试补全发现根本没有办法还原，所以觉得即使that改成了those也不对，因为D中既不是主语比较，也不是宾语比较，也不是介宾比较。。。不知道各位觉得D中that改为those，这句话对吗？

2、我不太同意LS对于E的省略，我觉得E中的省略是：at speeds (that are) much higher than speeds are currently possible，后一句话之所以没有speeds，是因为than可以兼作代词；如果是省略的部分是定从that are currently possible的话,那么这里的those是无论如何也没法省略的：at speeds (that are) much higher than those (that are) currently possible

3、另外我觉得这道题可以全部省略：an alliance ......would enable customers to receive internet data over regular telephone lines at speeds much higher than currently possible.不确定对不对。。。。

求指教~~

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-20 12:02

1、关于这道题D选项，我尝试补全发现根本没有办法还原，所以觉得即使that改成了those也不对，因为D中既不是主语比较，也不是宾语比较，也不是介宾比较。。。不知道各位觉得D中that改为those，这句话对吗？

2、我不太同意LS对于E的省略，我觉得E中的省略是：at speeds (that are) much higher than speeds are currently possible，后一句话之所以没有speeds，是因为than可以兼作代词；如果是省略的部分是定从that are currently possible的话,那么这里的those是无论如何也没法省略的：at speeds (that are) much higher than those (that are) currently possible

3、另外我觉得这道题可以全部省略：an alliance ......would enable customers to receive internet data over regular telephone lines at speeds much higher than currently possible.不确定对不对。。。。

求指教~~

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/19 23:54:30)

1、3、这两个问题我们楼上都讨论了，你可以看看哦~不过大家还都是模模糊糊的额我觉得
2、对于than和as在句中做比较从句的主语，这个说法挺好的，贴两个以前看到的句子：

Eg1: In one of the bloodiest battles of the Civil War, fought at Sharpsburg, Maryland, on September 17, 1862, four times as many Americans were killed as would later be killed on the beaches of Normandy during D-Day.
Were killed & would be killed时态不同进行比较时，动词不能省略
这里as应该指代many Americans

Eg2:Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—fewer than have been killed by bee stings.

我觉得和这题蛮像的～请大家再看一看～～

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-20 14:57

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/19 23:54:30)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/20 12:02:14)

其实我只是觉得prices are higher than we expected.--> prices are higher than (prices that) we expected
这个例子很奇怪，因为这种特殊的比较一般是：thanusual/ ever before/ previously expected/previously estimated/ anticipated，我也看见过than it is expected,至于than we expected我真的没看见过，希望能举出例子~~

我之所以提D选项，是因为我觉得这里at 后只能直接跟speeds，不然真的没有办法构成比较结构，因为这里比较的sppeds和主句没有关系，所以必须作为从句的主语进行比较（这句话本质上是主语比较~），所以不是简单的that换成those就可以的~

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-20 15:08

我觉得DE的now的位置也有点问题。。。。

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/19 23:40:32)

D大牛的话每次都得琢磨好半天。。。是不是因为now放在开头有修饰整个后面的意思，所以不对？
如果E中把with去掉，改成
The gyrfalcon, an Arctic bird of prey, has survived a close brush with extinction,now its numbers five times greater than when the use of DDT was sharply restricted in the early 1970's. .
是否对？

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-20 15:14
我在斑竹的excel文件里发现ron说的这么一句话：
If current trends continue, by the year 2010 carbon emissions in the United States will soar to a level more than one-third higher than that in 1990, according to official projections.
和我们的D项，简直了。。。可不可以理解成D的that如果改成those就是对的啊！

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-20 16:34
yingqi2012~
1、我在elroy斑竹的笔记里看到这么一句：
状语比较： A do sth than usual/ever before/people expected(直接加状语）
他说最后一个ppl expected是OK的~但没有例子
2、我的理解是：prices are higher than usual/ ever before/ previously expected/previously estimated/ anticipated——还原之后是：
prices are higher than they were ever before/they were previously expected
之前那句话还原之后是：prices are higher than prices that we expected
因为原句的结构就不同，所以省略后看起来不一样，但其实都省略了相同的部分，我觉得LS没必要纠结哈~

还有，昨天有个MM的帖子里总结的很好：“时间状语的比较，能否省略取决于than前面是否有相应的时间状语。有的话，than后面主句可以省略；没有的话，than后面需要补出主谓，以避免比较对象上的歧义。 ”
贴几个例子：
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers would have to know a great deal more than（they do） now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

[they do]不能省略，因为than前面没有相应的状语结构

A large rise in the number of housing starts in the coming year should boost new construction dollars by several billion dollars, making the construction industry’s economic health much more robust than (it was) five years ago.

[it was]不能省略，因为than前面没有相应的状语结构

The animosity between those who regulate and those who are regulated has never been more pronounced than in recent debates over environmentalism and pollution control.
省略了than后的主谓结构，因为这个例句中never与in recent debates相对应。

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-20 16:37
大家看看GWD那题A和E中at much higher speeds 和at speeds much higher这个差异点啊~我觉得这个点有问题~
LS讨论的now不管放哪，我窃以为语意上都没有变化的哇~

作者: MiaZhang 时间: 2012-11-20 18:47

我觉得DE的now的位置也有点问题。。。。

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/19 23:40:32)

now区别在哪里？语义上都是时间状语。。如果DE其他错被修改了的话，也看不出什么语义上的区别。。D哥再详细说说？

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-20 21:30

我觉得DE的now的位置也有点问题。。。。

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/19 23:40:32)

now区别在哪里？语义上都是时间状语。。如果DE其他错被修改了的话，也看不出什么语义上的区别。。D哥再详细说说？

-- by 会员 MiaZhang (2012/11/20 18:47:43)

没错没错~ 我也不明白~

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-20 21:38

yingqi2012~
1、我在elroy斑竹的笔记里看到这么一句：
状语比较： A do sth than usual/ever before/people expected(直接加状语）
他说最后一个ppl expected是OK的~但没有例子
2、我的理解是：prices are higher than usual/ ever before/ previously expected/previously estimated/ anticipated——还原之后是：
prices are higher than they were ever before/they were previously expected
之前那句话还原之后是：prices are higher than prices that we expected
因为原句的结构就不同，所以省略后看起来不一样，但其实都省略了相同的部分，我觉得LS没必要纠结哈~

还有，昨天有个MM的帖子里总结的很好：“时间状语的比较，能否省略取决于than前面是否有相应的时间状语。有的话，than后面主句可以省略；没有的话，than后面需要补出主谓，以避免比较对象上的歧义。 ”
贴几个例子：
To develop more accurate population forecasts, demographers would have to know a great deal more than（they do） now about the social and economic determinants of fertility.

[they do]不能省略，因为than前面没有相应的状语结构

A large rise in the number of housing starts in the coming year should boost new construction dollars by several billion dollars, making the construction industry’s economic health much more robust than (it was) five years ago.

[it was]不能省略，因为than前面没有相应的状语结构

The animosity between those who regulate and those who are regulated has never been more pronounced than in recent debates over environmentalism and pollution control.
省略了than后的主谓结构，因为这个例句中never与in recent debates相对应。

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/20 16:34:04)

OK~ 我又忘了之前总结的比较了。。。你说的没错，一个东西纵向比较的时候因为常常没有对应的时间状语，所以要补出句子~
另外，谢谢LZ，than pl expected这个特殊比较我记住了~ps：LZ有没有看到过as...as pl expected的结构？因为一个人看的句子实在有限，所以不知道同样是比较结构，as...as pl expected对不对？

作者: 媛子大人 时间: 2012-11-21 17:51
没看到过诶~不过E神说，as...as这种结构，只要观察，第二个as后面有的内容，前面也一定会出现，抓住这个点就好了

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-21 22:15

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 14:37:57)

没见过Kiwifoodtown这样的省略。一般比较省略也是省略比较的第二部分，及than后面部分成分。
同意MIA 的二楼解释。
Pls find out RON justification as below.
http://www.beatthegmat.com/nic-1-major-computer-companies-t41233.html

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-21 23:29

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 14:37:57)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/21 22:15:50)

abjure，你是怎么看这个比较的呢？是主语比较吗？
我看了ron的回答，不过他没有对这个问题深入下去（或许真的如ron所说，在未确认此题来源之前根本没有深究的必要。。。），所以还是有疑问~
ron的补充应该和Mia是一样的：speeds much higher than （speeds that） are currently possible
这里应该是比较speeds，那么在这个比较结构中speeds到底充当着什么成分？我觉得kiwi前面的补充是对的：at speeds (that are) much higher ...即引导一个新的从句来进行比较结构。否则这后面一长串的much higher than...充当什么成分？宾补吗？

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-22 21:06

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 14:37:57)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/21 22:15:50)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/21 23:29:03)

美女，为什么每次你的问题都让我这么纠结，估计还是我功力不到家。。花了两个多小时，我把所有prep和OG的有“than”的句子都挑出来看了一遍。
我中学英语没学好，对什么宾补的规则不清楚。

这题我的理由
（1）这道题按照 Kiwifoodtown这样的补出，首先就很wordy，根据manhatton (VAN 消灭 clause "be") ,我就觉得怪怪的，不信你把所有Kiwifoodtown补上的东西放在句子里读一遍，肯定觉得乖乖的。
（2）我们把这提结构提炼下 S+V+ (noun1) higher than Noun2 "that are....",
noun1=noun2 =speed
假如NOUN2需要限定修饰“that are...” 来体现NOUN1 和noun2的不同，完全合理啊。
最后作者觉得因为noun1 和 noun2 是同一个词，就把 noun2 和that 一起省略了。

我copy 一道prep上面提供你参考把。巨长4 pages

218. (GWD7-Q4)Only seven people thiscentury have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—lessthan those killed by bee stings.
A. movies—less than those
B. movies—fewer than have been
C. movies, which is less than those
D. movies, a number lowerthan the people (B)
E. movies, fewer than the ones
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/can-somebody-help-me-out-with-this-question-t4278-30.html
结论：
- fewer than (..the number of people who..) have been killed by bee stings.
in the bracket (the number of people who) has been left out as it is understood.

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-22 23:42

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 14:37:57)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/21 22:15:50)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/21 23:29:03)

美女，为什么每次你的问题都让我这么纠结，估计还是我功力不到家。。花了两个多小时，我把所有prep和OG的有“than”的句子都挑出来看了一遍。
我中学英语没学好，对什么宾补的规则不清楚。

这题我的理由
（1）这道题按照 Kiwifoodtown这样的补出，首先就很wordy，根据manhatton (VAN 消灭 clause "be") ,我就觉得怪怪的，不信你把所有Kiwifoodtown补上的东西放在句子里读一遍，肯定觉得乖乖的。
（2）我们把这提结构提炼下 S+V+ (noun1) higher than Noun2 "that are....",
noun1=noun2 =speed
假如NOUN2需要限定修饰“that are...” 来体现NOUN1 和noun2的不同，完全合理啊。
最后作者觉得因为noun1 和 noun2 是同一个词，就把 noun2 和that 一起省略了。

我copy 一道prep上面提供你参考把。巨长4 pages

218. (GWD7-Q4)Only seven people thiscentury have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—lessthan those killed by bee stings.
A.movies—less than those
B.movies—fewer than have been
C.movies, which is less than those
D.movies, a number lowerthan the people (B)
E.movies, fewer than the ones
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/can-somebody-help-me-out-with-this-question-t4278-30.html
结论：
- fewer than (..the number of people who..) have been killed by bee stings.
in the bracket (the number of people who) has been left out as it is understood.

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/22 21:06:37)

天。。。我一直以为than后省略的是pl...而且为了这个结构我上CNKI查了很多论文，上面也明确指出了这种than/as兼做代词的结构。。。但是native的解释居然是省略了the number of pl！又有一种颠覆了世界观和人生观的感觉，容我好好想想。。。anyway, 辛苦了~~非常感谢~~

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-23 00:28

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 9:50:43)

-- by 会员媛子大人 (2012/11/19 12:52:51)

-- by 会员 kiwifoodtown (2012/11/19 14:37:57)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/21 22:15:50)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/21 23:29:03)

美女，为什么每次你的问题都让我这么纠结，估计还是我功力不到家。。花了两个多小时，我把所有prep和OG的有“than”的句子都挑出来看了一遍。
我中学英语没学好，对什么宾补的规则不清楚。

这题我的理由
（1）这道题按照 Kiwifoodtown这样的补出，首先就很wordy，根据manhatton (VAN 消灭 clause "be") ,我就觉得怪怪的，不信你把所有Kiwifoodtown补上的东西放在句子里读一遍，肯定觉得乖乖的。
（2）我们把这提结构提炼下 S+V+ (noun1) higher than Noun2 "that are....",
noun1=noun2 =speed
假如NOUN2需要限定修饰“that are...” 来体现NOUN1 和noun2的不同，完全合理啊。
最后作者觉得因为noun1 和 noun2 是同一个词，就把 noun2 和that 一起省略了。

我copy 一道prep上面提供你参考把。巨长4 pages

218. (GWD7-Q4)Only seven people thiscentury have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies—lessthan those killed by bee stings.
A.movies—less than those
B.movies—fewer than have been
C.movies, which is less than those
D.movies, a number lowerthan the people (B)
E.movies, fewer than the ones
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/can-somebody-help-me-out-with-this-question-t4278-30.html
结论：
- fewer than (..the number of people who..) have been killed by bee stings.
in the bracket (the number of people who) has been left out as it is understood.

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/22 21:06:37)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/22 23:42:03)

你细心，我看的时候都没有注意这个。

说明你以前的世界观和人生观非常不正确。

作者: MiaZhang 时间: 2012-11-23 01:24
at speeds (that are) much higher ...
much higher是speeds的修饰成分，作定语，限定作用

作者: apemou 时间: 2016-11-18 15:09

MiaZhang 发表于 2012-11-19 09:42
第一个题目好阴险，我昨天也做错了，今天恰巧在总结According to analysts, an alliance between three maj ...

同意！

作者: PoitsonRann 时间: 2017-6-5 20:00
第一题还是不明白。不补those我不服比较的就是speeds怎么能省略？
有同学提问：oil prices in 2009 were higher than in 1990
Ron: nonsense 因为比较的oil prices 所以后面必须出现oil prices

作者: xingzhi 时间: 2017-8-16 16:44

yiqing2012 发表于 2012-11-20 21:38
yingqi2012~1、我在elroy斑竹的笔记里看到这么一句：状语比较：  A do sth than usual/ever before ...

GWD7-Q32:

　　A surge in new home sales and a drop in weekly unemployment claims suggest that the economy might not be as weak as (the economy) some analysts previously thought (to be).

作者: xingzhi 时间: 2017-8-16 16:46

yiqing2012 发表于 2012-11-20 21:38
yingqi2012~1、我在elroy斑竹的笔记里看到这么一句：状语比较：  A do sth than usual/ever before ...

　22. (25727-!-item-!-188;#058&002127)

　　The company announced that its profits declined much less in the second quarter than analysts had expected and that its business would improve in the second half of the year.

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