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标题: 求教一道关于比较的语法题！ [打印本页]

作者: sisi1203 时间: 2012-11-18 10:36
标题: 求教一道关于比较的语法题！
GWD5-Q14:
Even though more money was removed out of stock funds in July as in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as an industry trade group had previously estimated.

A. as in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as
B. as had been in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what
C. than there was in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as that which
D. than in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as
E. than in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what
这道题选E，请问D错在哪？比较对象是sales of fund shares，为什么as low as后面不能省略sales of fund shares,直接加后面的an industry trade group had previously estimated？为什么还要加个what呢？

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-11-18 10:59
再仔细看一眼。。。亲。。。应该是D选项的问题是应该使用any other month啦！！！我觉得what是可以省略的，加上也没错，主要的问题D 错在没有other上，是逻辑上的错误

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-18 14:58
any other 问题同意LS
但是what能不能省问题，有一点疑问：这句话中的estimated和平常所见的than estamated的特殊比较结构似乎不太一样，
sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what an industry trade group had previously estimated，这里比较的是两个noun,如果去掉what，后面就是一个句子，和前面一个noun比较不对称，所以感觉不能去掉~~

请教NN~

作者: kiwifoodtown 时间: 2012-11-19 10:23

any other 问题同意LS
但是what能不能省问题，有一点疑问：这句话中的estimated和平常所见的than estamated的特殊比较结构似乎不太一样，
sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what an industry trade group had previously estimated，这里比较的是两个noun,如果去掉what，后面就是一个句子，和前面一个noun比较不对称，所以感觉不能去掉~~

请教NN~

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

非常同意！

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-24 13:11

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

sorry~ 这里说错了~~
这里可以省略what~ 这句话应该和A surge in new home sales and a drop in weekly unemployment claims suggest that the economy might not be as weak as some analyst previously thought一样，特殊的比较结构~

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-25 16:51

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/24 13:11:44)

这道题我觉得是应该选D。不是选E，

首先 other 没必要出现，因为不需要把“自己”排除在外

其次这题就像yiqing说的一样。和OG 12-13结构一样，只是as 后面省略了 “sales of fund shares in July that” 而已。

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-25 18:52

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/24 13:11:44)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/25 16:51:25)

我理解你的意思了~~ 你的意思是不是觉得october应该在july之后，所以不用排除自己？
但是从句意理解，我觉得这个july就不是1987年的，而是后面年份的~ 特别是这里还用了一个since，since表示从什么时候开始到后来什么时候，所以1987.10应该在这个JULY的前面~

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-26 00:00

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/24 13:11:44)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/25 16:51:25)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/25 18:52:30)

刚刚再想想，
我同意你这个观点，因为比较基本要求，是比较的两方不可以是相同的事物，所以用了other就非常严谨的排除了这种逻辑错误。OG好像也有类似的题。

但是对于what的省略这点：我觉得不可以省略，这也是D的另外一个错误点。
sales of fund shares 是一个短语，用 imply "sales of fund shares that" 这种结构that不可以指代一个短语，应该是具体某个词，假如放到这题里，就会造成指代歧义的问题。所以作者干脆用what 代替。。。

想问问，不知道有哪位大侠有what的总结？？

作者: TerraceHo 时间: 2012-11-26 00:57
在manhattan找了好久，只找到一丁點大神說的話，結合Stacey說的俺是這樣想的，歡迎糾正><!! 順便把另外一題目也在這裡研究一下，謝謝！

【注：由於俺是直接把自己note po上來，所以有點亂...見諒!!!><】

1.A surge in new home sales and a drop in weekly unemployment claims suggest that the economy might not be as weak as some analysts previously thought.
(A) claims suggest that the economy might not be as weak as some analysts previously thought A
(B) claims suggests that the economy might not be so weak as some analysts have previously thought
(C) claims suggest that the economy might not be as weak as have been previously thought by some analysts
(D) claims, suggesting about the economy that it might not be so weak as previously thought by some analysts
(E) claims, suggesting the economy might not be as weak as previously thought to be by some analysts

(1) parallel maker: As weak as

(2) 前面部份：The economy might not be...
後面部份我分別分為active voice和passive voice兩種形式來補充原句（因為在manhattan上面看到有人問Stacey關於passive voice的，然後Stacey指出passive voice只要適當修改也是grammatically right的）

a)【active voice】

Some analysts previously thought that the economy might be...//

Some analysts previously thought the economy to be...//

【passive voice】

The economy was previously thought by some analyst.

In a passive construction, the subject is NOT doing the action. Rather, the subject is having the action performed on it. The analysts thought something ABOUT an idea / the economy, so that becomes the subject in a passive construction.【passive voice的時候，句子的subject不是動作的執行者，而是動作的對象。所以動作執行者對應進行動作針對的事物，就是此時的subject。】

b)【From Stacey】When the comparison is between what something actually is vs. what someone thought it was, you can indicate the "thought it was" part via tense, without repeating the initial word.【就是說當某事的事實情況跟某人所想的情況相比較的時候，“thought it was”可以通過時態來替代，不需要重複原來的詞語】

c)【Omit】沒有ambiguity & 保持parallelism的前提下，

【active voice】what some analysts previously thought

Some analysts previously thought.

【passive voice】was previously thought by some analysts.

【論】爲什麽that-clause可以用what來代替？

A：What do you suggest on this matter?

B：I suggest that...

根據上面的例子，what對應的是that-clause。

【論】active voice和passive voice的選擇：經濟沒有分析師所想的weak，我覺得比較后部份的重點在于分析師這個主體，而不是think這個動作。因此，根據主動側重於subject，被動側重於verb的原則，比較的后部份用active voice比用passive voice好。但是這個也是要到句子判斷到最好兩個才用。

2. Even though more money was removed out of stock funds in July as in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as an industry trade group had previously estimated.
A. as in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as
B. as had been in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what
C. than there was in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as that which
D. than in any month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as
E. than in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what

(1) more...than

a)more money was removed out of stock funds in July【某年7月，不確定】

b)money was removed out of stock funds in（any）other month since October 1987【自從1987年7月】

c)more money was removed out of stock funds in July than in any（other）other month since October 1987

(2) as low as

a)Sales of fund shares in July were...

b)【active voice】

An industry trade group had previously estimated that sales of fund shares...//

An industry trade group had previously estimated the sales of fund shares to be...

【passive voice】

Sales of fund shares had been previously estimated by an industry trade group.

c)【Omit】沒有ambiguity & 保持parallelism的前提下，

【active voice】what an industry trade group had previously estimated

an industry trade group had previously estimated

【passive voice】had been previously estimated by an industry trade group

【解釋】

根據句子意思的理解，可以大概確定July是在1986年October以後的，如果直接用any month since October 1987的話，就會把July也包含進去，起不到一個compare的作用。因而要在any後面加上other，any other month since October 1987，表示1987年10月起除了7月以外的其他月份。

Conclusion: 我覺得在active voice的情況下，當比較后部份有what的時候，what代替的是estimate/think後面的賓語從句。沒有what的時候，省略的是estimate/think to be中的to be【因為有學生問Stacey是不是要不to be，然後Stacey就說Yes，something like this。據此，我認為，要補充原句的方法不僅只有一種，所以分了賓從和固定搭配兩方面】。
在passive voice的情況下，直接省略與比較前部份相同的subject，留下tensed verb。

希望覺得俺這樣想不對的同學糾正一下！thx><!!~~!

(1) more...than

a)more money was removed out of stock funds in July【某年7月，不確定】

b)money was removed out of stock funds in（any）other month since October 1987【自從1987年7月】

c)more money was removed out of stock funds in July than in any（other）other month since October 1987

(2) as low as

a)Sales of fund shares in July were...

b)【active voice】

An industry trade group had previously estimated that sales of fund shares...//

An industry trade group had previously estimated the sales of fund shares to be...

【passive voice】

Sales of fund shares had been previously estimated by an industry trade group.

c)【Omit】沒有ambiguity & 保持parallelism的前提下，

【active voice】what an industry trade group had previously estimated

an industry trade group had previously estimated

【passive voice】had been previously estimated by an industry trade group

【解釋】

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-26 11:49
LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-26 16:38

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/24 13:11:44)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/25 16:51:25)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/25 18:52:30)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 0:00:30)

找到一篇关于这种用法总结的论文，你看看~
关于这种用法的理解好像学术界也没有统一的结论，但是关于怎么用还是有总结的~
终于可以不用再纠结这个用法了~ 就记着用法应该就够了，毕竟学术界都没讨论出结论。。。。
[attach]110520[/attach]

作者: 九尾 时间: 2012-11-26 18:34

LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 11:49:04)

他的意思大概是说 what 是可以指代that。。。。的于是这里的what就合情合理了

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-26 21:42

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/18 14:58:13)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/24 13:11:44)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/25 16:51:25)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/25 18:52:30)

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 0:00:30)

找到一篇关于这种用法总结的论文，你看看~
关于这种用法的理解好像学术界也没有统一的结论，但是关于怎么用还是有总结的~
终于可以不用再纠结这个用法了~ 就记着用法应该就够了，毕竟学术界都没讨论出结论。。。。
110520

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/26 16:38:28)

妹子。。。Thanks

1986把我给震了

作者: 光明使者开盖 时间: 2012-11-26 22:14
as......as an industry trade group had previously estimated就和 than expected差不多的结构吧

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-27 08:51

妹子。。。Thanks

1986把我给震了

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 21:42:07)

作者: TerraceHo 时间: 2012-11-27 20:53

LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 11:49:04)

【Even though more money was removed out of stock funds in July than in any other month since October 1987, sales of fund shares in July were not as low as what an industry trade group had previously estimated.】

簡單地說，就是as low as後面可以分為主動（就是trade group had estimated（that.../to be something））和被動（就是something had been estimated by trade group）兩種用法。而上面就是屬於主動的用法。

現在問題是上面的用法到底要不要把what留下來。

在這個問題上，我的意思是留下what和不要what是對兩種不同敘述方式的簡化和省略。
（1）留下what，那麼as low as後面的內容應該是：an industry trade group had previously estimated that sales of fund shares... (注意這裡是一個clause)
這個clause可以用what指代，所以就變成了答案的說法了。
（2）不要what，as low as後面的內容應該是：an industry trade group had previously estimated sales of fund shares to be... (注意這裡是estimate的一種用法)
在這種情況下，把上面黑體劃綫省略了，就變成了D項結尾的內容了。

不知道這樣ok否

謝~

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-11-27 21:38

LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 11:49:04)

謝~

-- by 会员 TerraceHo (2012/11/27 20:53:21)

留不留下what都是对的~，至于补充的省略。。。我只能说不同人有不同的省略，合理的都是可以的（其实我觉得这种用法就没必要去纠结省略的到底是什么）~

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-27 23:03

LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 11:49:04)

謝~

-- by 会员 TerraceHo (2012/11/27 20:53:21)

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/11/27 21:38:52)

同意，
我觉得what的放在里面可以满足 as low as 的语义和结构平行。

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-11-27 23:06

LS 老实说，没看懂你想说什么。

-- by 会员 abjure (2012/11/26 11:49:04)

謝~

-- by 会员 TerraceHo (2012/11/27 20:53:21)

清楚，非常谢谢。我对被动语态运用不是非常懂，尤其放在比较结构里面的应用，遇到不多，你这个例子我先留着，等我看到被动语态的时候，在拿出来看看。

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