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标题: 关于that的省略 请NN指教 [打印本页]
作者: 090743    时间: 2012-11-3 17:01
标题: 关于that的省略 请NN指教
Scientists have identified an asteroid, 2000 BF19, that is about half a mile wide and, if it strikes Earth, it can do tremendous damage to part of the planet but probably not cause planetwide destruction.

C. andthat, if it were to strike Earth, could do tremendous damage to part of the planet but would
正确答案

The bones of Majungatholus atopus, a meat-eating dinosaur that is a distant relative of Tyrannosaurus rex and closely resembles South American predatory dinosaurs, have been discovered in Madagascar.
(A) The bones of Majungatholus atopus, a meat-eating dinosaur that is a distant relative of Tyrannosaurus rex and closely resembles South American predatory dinosaurs, have been discovered in Madagascar.
正确答案

我想问的是相比较第一题，第二题题的第二个that 为何可以省略呢？还是说有其他理由在and后根本就不用加that？？
我的想法是that在这个从从句里的成分是主语，而相同主语又可以省略，那么是不是在asteroid题中正确答案c里的that是不是也可以省略，因为这个that也是作主语？？？
我的表达不是很清楚但还是想急求nn指正

作者: lunvs    时间: 2012-11-3 17:27
系表结构可以跟动词结构平行,即 It is a distant relative of Tyrannosaurus rex and closely resembles South American predatory dinosaurs.是符合平行结构的。
记得好像是宾语从句的话，从句谓语不同的话就要补that，相同就不补。这里是定语从句，是我的想法，欢迎楼下指正
作者: 090743    时间: 2012-11-3 18:01
lunvs兄多谢指教，不过主系表和主谓宾是确定可以平行的吗，以前翻老帖的时候，看到过有分歧
还有就是谓语不同补that同时使用在宾语和定于从句中？
作者: DUKB24    时间: 2012-11-3 18:03
that的补出省略只是一个相对的优化问题...（当然如果有两个that-clause的选项做出了split，还是要选最平行的那一项）：

quote：


Note that in simpler sentences, the common elements in parallel structures can be implied. For instance "I told you that I love food but hate water". In this case, "that I" is implied before "hate". However, because the two parts of the list are so close, it is acceptable to imply common elements. When, as is the case in the elephant sentence, the two parts are far apart, it becomes very important to be explicit and repeat the common elements in order to re-inforce the parallelism and make the sentence easier to understand.

OG12 #128为什么要补出that，和你问的问题是同样的道理
作者: 090743    时间: 2012-11-3 18:13
that的补出省略只是一个相对的优化问题...（当然如果有两个that-clause的选项做出了split，还是要选最平行的那一项）：

quote：


Note that in simpler sentences, the common elements in parallel structures can be implied. For instance "I told you that I love food but hate water". In this case, "that I" is implied before "hate". However, because the two parts of the list are so close, it is acceptable to imply common elements. When, as is the case in the elephant sentence, the two parts are far apart, it becomes very important to be explicit and repeat the common elements in order to re-inforce the parallelism and make the sentence easier to understand.

OG12 #128为什么要补出that，和你问的问题是同样的道理
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/3 18:03:30)


谢谢！！！！明白了，多谢NN
但现在困惑二楼说的，主系表和主谓宾能平行咩？以前翻老帖看到有俩NN争论过
作者: DUKB24    时间: 2012-11-3 18:31
that的补出省略只是一个相对的优化问题...（当然如果有两个that-clause的选项做出了split，还是要选最平行的那一项）：

quote：


Note that in simpler sentences, the common elements in parallel structures can be implied. For instance "I told you that I love food but hate water". In this case, "that I" is implied before "hate". However, because the two parts of the list are so close, it is acceptable to imply common elements. When, as is the case in the elephant sentence, the two parts are far apart, it becomes very important to be explicit and repeat the common elements in order to re-inforce the parallelism and make the sentence easier to understand.

OG12 #128为什么要补出that，和你问的问题是同样的道理
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/3 18:03:30)



谢谢！！！！明白了，多谢NN
但现在困惑二楼说的，主系表和主谓宾能平行咩？以前翻老帖看到有俩NN争论过
-- by 会员 090743 (2012/11/3 18:13:16)



一个是is，一个working verb


两个都是跟在主语后面，性质一样


当然可以平行
作者: 090743    时间: 2012-11-3 18:37
that的补出省略只是一个相对的优化问题...（当然如果有两个that-clause的选项做出了split，还是要选最平行的那一项）：

quote：


Note that in simpler sentences, the common elements in parallel structures can be implied. For instance "I told you that I love food but hate water". In this case, "that I" is implied before "hate". However, because the two parts of the list are so close, it is acceptable to imply common elements. When, as is the case in the elephant sentence, the two parts are far apart, it becomes very important to be explicit and repeat the common elements in order to re-inforce the parallelism and make the sentence easier to understand.

OG12 #128为什么要补出that，和你问的问题是同样的道理
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/3 18:03:30)




谢谢！！！！明白了，多谢NN
但现在困惑二楼说的，主系表和主谓宾能平行咩？以前翻老帖看到有俩NN争论过
-- by 会员 090743 (2012/11/3 18:13:16)




一个是is，一个working verb


两个都是跟在主语后面，性质一样


当然可以平行
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/11/3 18:31:33)


多谢传教，受益匪浅，NN好人，长命百岁。
作者: lunvs    时间: 2012-11-3 18:43
既然og出现了这个句子，肯定是可以的，但肯定不是最好的，选最优选项
作者: 090743    时间: 2012-11-3 18:55
既然og出现了这个句子，肯定是可以的，但肯定不是最好的，选最优选项
-- by 会员 lunvs (2012/11/3 18:43:07)


恩，说的在理
作者: stt300    时间: 2012-11-4 23:15
标题: 再次请教DUKB！
不知道我这个问题是不是有点不值得问，但是还是有点没太明白。我查了CD所有帖子好像还没有人问到。请问A的but后面为何一定要补出could或者would情态动词？but不能像and一样引导的平行结构省略主语和情态动词吗？


另外，虚拟语气的could和would我一直认为语义上是没有区别的，那为何C正确项前面是could后面是would呢？是因为后面有probably，如果用could语义重复？因为我在之前帖子中看到Aeoluseros版主说may/might不能与probably一起，语义重复，would只是表个时态没有具体意思。那么可以理解为could和may/might表推测的意思差不多，所以不能跟probably？
作者: sisichen666    时间: 2012-11-4 23:31
我个人理解是could还是would要根据逻辑意思来选，本题与probably无关，
should have done 过去本该做.......（而没有）
would have done   过去若做了（实际没有）将会......
could have done    本可以/本能.........


这就说明为什么but后面补出could/would，只有补出才能体现其使用的虚拟语气一滴滴的差别
作者: stt300    时间: 2012-11-4 23:43
谢谢sisi这么快回复，不过还是没太明白，你说的虚拟是与过去相反的，此题是与现在相反，不过我认为表意上应该像你说的那样。should表示更肯定，could和would表推测意思更多，不过我记得白勇里面说should用于第一人称，would用二、三人称，但是could和might没有说，那这么看还是表意区别更多一些，应该不在白勇说的人称的区别吧？

另，那你意思是说but其实后面不用必须补出助动词，只是因为虚拟表意更清晰才补出的？
作者: sisichen666    时间: 2012-11-4 23:59
白勇语法我是不推荐看的，很多说法很主观，观点考点思路也都过时了。。。。。。
正题哈，对于事情没有发生，所以只能could/would；But后面需要有情态动词，补全一下就可以看出来细微的logic：could do…but would not cause… 能够发生....但是却没有发生.....
作者: sisichen666    时间: 2012-11-5 00:00
but和and是一样的呀亲.....补出不补出助动词，全看有没有逻辑歧义。。。。。。。
作者: DUKB24    时间: 2012-11-5 00:08
不知道我这个问题是不是有点不值得问，但是还是有点没太明白。我查了CD所有帖子好像还没有人问到。请问A的but后面为何一定要补出could或者would情态动词？but不能像and一样引导的平行结构省略主语和情态动词吗？


另外，虚拟语气的could和would我一直认为语义上是没有区别的，那为何C正确项前面是could后面是would呢？是因为后面有probably，如果用could语义重复？因为我在之前帖子中看到Aeoluseros版主说may/might不能与probably一起，语义重复，would只是表个时态没有具体意思。那么可以理解为could和may/might表推测的意思差不多，所以不能跟probably？
-- by 会员 stt300 (2012/11/4 23:15:08)




你这样的做法相当于是去质疑正确答案，既然答案是对的..我们的思考方向当然是去考虑为什么是对的
我承认这里可能有点wordy甚至redundancy的嫌疑，但是这是一个相对来说比较low priority的issue，做SC我们最忌讳的就是捡了芝麻丢了西瓜
这两者其实不是redundant

看看国外怎么解释的：
quote：
"would" and "probably" are different parts of speech and have different meanings, so they are not redundant.
--"probably" is an adverb that means "very likely"
--"would" is a verb that is the past tense version of "will", among other uses

最后补充一点自己的看法
could和would这里的用法不一样的
我倾向于理解这里的would为过去时的will，表示可能性很大或者一定会发生（在hypothetical 的情况下）
而could表达的是一种可能性
两者的意思感觉还是有点区别

最后：
我觉得这题这个split太subtle，建议了解下就好，不要太过深究







作者: stt300    时间: 2012-11-5 01:36
谢谢 太感谢sisi和DUKB的解释，我基本明白了。其实这题也是今天偶然看到的就问了下，然后看了下之前别人问的问题。白勇的我也是参照看了下，谢谢sisi提醒！确实感觉应该再多来CD多看看新更新的资料，自己的有点旧，所以才下了最新的manhattan 5，之前看的是4.

关于but我有点绕到死胡同了，认为非得省情态动词，因为can not cause我觉得logic还可以，因为我自己就是选的A，觉得it的句子可以和主句平行，but后省略也可，没太想表意不一样的话情态动词还是要补出的。而且之前对于虚拟语气一直认为should could would表意没有区别，就是时态的问题，看来还是表意上有区别的，而且我又搜了下og，对的虚拟语气的句子基本都是用的would，看了下感觉表意是有区别的。


关于DUKB解释的would和probably，此题我也搜了manhattan论坛还有beatthegmat，没找到，所以就来问了问。
作者: FTKJ    时间: 2013-6-16 22:52
路过～～～～～～
作者: zzloveyibo    时间: 2013-11-3 21:14
十分同意DUKB24的：that的补出省略只是一个相对的优化问题。但是有时候好像在定语从句中，平行的that好像补出的情况比较少。

我也困扰了好久这道题。。。

下面附上prep1


63. (27901-!-item-!-188;#058&003440)

Unlike emergency calls that travel through regular telephone lines, where they thus automatically
inform the operator of the location and phone number of the caller, cellular calls require emergency
operators to determine the location of the caller.

(A) lines, where they thus automatically inform the operator of the location and phone number of the
caller, cellular calls require emergency operators to determine the location of the caller
(B) lines and thus automatically inform the operator of the location and phone number of the caller,
cellular calls require emergency operators to determine the location of the caller
(C) lines, thus automatically informing the operator of the location and phone number of the caller,
the location of the caller on a cellular phone has to be determined by the operator
(D) lines, and thus automatically inform the operator of the location and phone number of the caller,
emergency operators have to determine the location of the cellular phone caller
(E) lines, thus automatically informing the operator of the location and phone number of the caller,
emergency operators receiving a cellular call have to determine the location of the caller

OA：B

travel和inform同时修饰的是emergency calls 但是and后没有that。
作者: huanyoushijie    时间: 2015-10-9 10:44
顶楼主！               
作者: moneyandtata    时间: 2017-4-11 22:12
因为A错了，where不能修饰line，所以选B。 如果B有that更好，但是没有的话，跟A相比还是可以接受的。所以选B。
个人觉得SC是找到最几个选项当中最合适的答案，所以是要跟选项比较，不能单独拿出来修改或者怎样的。按照问题的重要性排序，逐一排除其它选项，才是解题关键。



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