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标题: OG13 sc 9 请教NN们~~~ [打印本页]

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 21:47
标题: OG13 sc 9 请教NN们~~~

9. In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice productionto about 41 million tons, nearly 25 percentless than those of the 1978 harvest.

(A) less than those of the 1978 harvest

(B) less than the 1978 harvest

(D) fewer than 1978

(E) fewer than that of India’s 1978 harvest

看过了其它的帖子，又看了几遍OG的解释还是不理解：1）为什么不能比较tons,而一定要比较rice production呢？
2）在nearly 25 percent less than those of the 1978harvest 前面到底省略了什么？是which is 还是which are还是。。。?
3）A中解释说those 应该指代tons,如果those指代tons，OG上为什么没有提less应该改成fewer的错误，而仅仅只说有语义重复的问题呢？
4）解释上说的think of 41 million tons of rice as the collective equivalent of the 1979 harvest 到底包含了什么含义？
求NN们指导~~

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 21:57
dddddd

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 22:11
up~~

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 22:36
up~~~

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-21 22:40

9. In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 percent less than those of the 1978 harvest.

(A) less than those of the 1978 harvest

(B) less than the 1978 harvest

(D) fewer than 1978

(E) fewer than that of India’s 1978 harvest

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/10/21 21:47:01)

tricky question

So,here u get the split between fewer and less

countable nouns vs. uncountable nouns.

also that vs those

that of /those of

you should understand that if you use structure such as that of/ those of . you should have a similar structure in the former part to let the sentence parallel and also to let us understand what that or those refers to

since there is no" noun of ..... structure" present in the former part, such structure should be out

also, if you don't understand this technique, even that those can be point to tons

how can u use less for comparison between countable nouns

the same applies to that (production ) fewer cannot introduce comparison between uncountable nouns

"nearly 25 percent less than those of the 1978harvest " is a adverbial modifier , modifies the preceding clause

you can further post your questions if I omit some points you ask here

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 23:10
OG上的解释感觉并没有否定that/those of 因为前面没有类似的结构所以不对，而是因为that/those的指代会和harvest引发语义重复。
以A选项为例，OG的解释是：This version exhibits redundant word choice. The pronoun those refers to the tons of the 1978 harvest. Both harvests are measured in tons, and it is clearer and simpler to compare with the harvest itself, not with the tons of the harvest.

所以我才会问，如果those指代了tons，为什么不提less的错误呢？是不是会和：“think of 41 million tons of rice as the collective equivalent of the 1979 harvest ”的解释有关系？

而E选项中，OG的解释是：Since the comparative adjective should refer to rice production, fewer is not appropriate. Furthermore, the pronounthat refers back to India’s rice production [fewer than the rice production of India’s 1978 harvest] and is redundant. The word harvest is sufficient here to express the comparison.
是不是由于语义上和年份更相关的应该是该年份的产量，而不是该年份的吨数，所以推出比较的对象是production而不是tons?

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-21 23:16

OG上的解释感觉并没有否定that/those of 因为前面没有类似的结构所以不对，而是因为that/those的指代会和harvest引发语义重复。
以A选项为例，OG的解释是：This version exhibits redundant word choice. The pronoun those refers to the tons of the 1978 harvest. Both harvests are measured in tons, and it is clearer and simpler to compare with the harvest itself, not with the tons of the harvest.

所以我才会问，如果those指代了tons，为什么不提less的错误呢？是不是会和：“think of 41 million tons of rice as the collective equivalent of the 1979 harvest ”的解释有关系？

而E选项中，OG的解释是：Since the comparative adjective should refer to rice production, fewer is not appropriate. Furthermore, the pronounthat refers back to India’s rice production [fewer than the rice production of India’s 1978 harvest] and is redundant. The word harvest is sufficient here to express the comparison.
是不是由于语义上和年份更相关的应该是该年份的产量，而不是该年份的吨数，所以推出比较的对象是production而不是tons?

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/10/21 23:10:38)

OG解释的人也不是神

他们也是人

他们分析错误不见得会全部分析出来，就像OG12的解释他们也漏掉很多东西

1+1=3， OG的解释是说1+1=2所以之前的等式是错的

1+2=3，这个也可能证明之前的等式是错的

殊途同归

我可以很确定的告诉你这里的those不能指代到之前的tons，理由就是我之前说的

在几乎所有的those/that of引导的比较问题，OG的选项前面都会有个与that/those of对称的结构来认为that/those是指代 noun/nouns of中的noun/nouns

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-21 23:25
额。。。。LZ见过哪道题有比较吨和kg，厘米和米的吗？？？这种计量单位有比较的意义吗？？？？只有实词有意义的词汇才有比较的可能。。。。

对于A选项，og的解释实际上是说，原句主要想表达1979年的production和1978年的harvest相比减少了25%，但是这里those指代41 million tons，那么就变成了产量和41 million tons比，不合理——那还有必要再说fewer的问题吗？？源头都错误了，修饰成分还用再纠结吗？

对于E选项，形容词使用错误，fewer指代可数名词，而production是不可数名词；that of是冗余的，意思为india‘s 1978年产量的产量

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-21 23:32
LZ还是从语义来看，如果能想通是比较production和harvest，其他估计问题就不大了。。。。

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 23:34

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/10/21 23:10:38)

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/10/21 23:16:50)

thks a lot~~ 我最近刷第三遍OG的时候非常苦恼，因为发现了很多OG解释里没有提到的问题，而且很多问题论坛上也木有人讨论过，所以不知道对错。。。
可不可以再问一个问题啊~因为每次你回答的都比较清楚而且有说服力~：

4. At the end of the 1930s, Duke Ellington was looking for a composer to assist him—someone not only who could arrange music for his successful big band, but mirroring his eccentric writing style as well in order to finishthe many pieces he had started but never completed.

(A) someone not only who could arrange music for his successful big band, but mirroring his eccentric writing style as well in order to finish

(B) someone who could not only arrange music for his successful big band, but also mirror his eccentric writing style in order to finish

(C) someone who not only could arrange music for his successful big band, but also to mirror his eccentric writing style in finishing

(D) that being someone who could not only arrange music for his successful big band, but mirroring his eccentric writing style for finishing

(E) being someone not only who could arrange music for his successful big band, but mirror his eccentric writing style as well, finishing

答案很清楚，但是对于D的解释：

Instead of the shorter and clearersomeone who, this version uses the longer phrasethat being someone who, which is overly wordy. Furthermore, the verbs are not in the same form and so the construction is unparallel. Finally, the best way to express the causal relationship between the composer’s qualities and finishing Ellington’s pieces is to use the conjunctionin order to.
that being 结构肯定不对，但解释没有说that的指代问题，好像默认指代了composer,而不是him,这里的that可以跳跃to assist him 来修饰composer吗(因为我只知道that的跳跃修饰最大只能跳跃介词短语)？同理，同位语跳跃的修饰中也可以跳跃to do？

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-21 23:43
事实上，你的问题是建立在错误的基础上的

that不能指代人，whom和who才可以

再者

就是that真能指代人，我想你得根据句子的背景来分析到底要指代谁

但是这是一个错误的选项，你分析不出句子的大背景（尤其这个选项句意特别含糊）

如果指代两个都是make sense

那么优先指代him（就近原则）

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2012-10-21 23:58
也就是说，如果有一个选项是：who could not only arrange...but also mirror...in order to的话，因为就近指代him所以还是错的？
另外，我想知道定语从句和同位语从句可以跳跃to do来修饰吗？（因为我觉得这里的to do不含修饰成分，所以应该不能跳跃，但是正确答案的同位语明显跳跃修饰了。。。）

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-22 08:15

也就是说，如果有一个选项是：who could not only arrange...but also mirror...in order to的话，因为就近指代him所以还是错的？
另外，我想知道定语从句和同位语从句可以跳跃to do来修饰吗？（因为我觉得这里的to do不含修饰成分，所以应该不能跳跃，但是正确答案的同位语明显跳跃修饰了。。。）

-- by 会员 yiqing2012 (2012/10/21 23:58:45)

umm

我还是觉得你换成who不能指代him（之前说错了抱歉）

宾语当不成主语，所以只能指代composer

再者

关于that的指代，没有一个以偏概全的总结

在不同的背景下that的指代都是不一样的

你说的各种情形都有可能，你得把关于that指代的题目一题一题好好分析一下为什么不会产生歧义

作者: Yui1991 时间: 2013-4-1 20:09

嗯嗯嗯，我还想问一下，关于those/that of基本上都会指代上文的noun of结构，我刚看了下manhattan上的，看见有一些例句都是没有noun of的结构，例如：
A leopard’s skill in catching a wildebeest is as impressive as that of a cheetah.
Frank's build, LIKE that of his brother, is broad and muscular.
所以说，是不是说只要句子里有所有格的出现，比较时就可以用that/those of指代呢？
那这道题里面：
1. A项的those能不能就是指代tons呢，而A项的错误原因之一就是less 和those指代的tons矛盾？
2. 如果把A项改为less than that of the 1978，那语法上对不对呢？that能指代production么？虽然还是B项比较简洁。

作者: 冷月无声5555 时间: 2013-4-2 07:57
我是这么理解的，harvest=production，只是换了个说法而已

作者: FTKJ 时间: 2013-7-1 21:08
嘟嘟哥绝对霸气了

作者: wudchun 时间: 2013-7-24 11:37
上面的OG13 4题中的E选项里在someone和who之间可以插入not only吗？还是who必须要直接连接它所修饰的人

作者: lafee 时间: 2013-9-10 11:01

DUKB24 发表于 2012-10-21 22:40
9. In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 perc ...

Very clear, very useful, thanks

作者: 几米的世界9 时间: 2014-8-14 15:06

DUKB24 发表于 2012-10-22 08:15
也就是说，如果有一个选项是：who could not only arrange...but also mirror...in order to的话，因为 ...

你好！
1.宾语当不成主语的话，那么这句话对么：I saw him on the street who had helped me before.
2.我认为这里的someone who不存在修饰歧义，因为原文中有dash，说明someone who是可以用来修饰composer的；如果没有dash的话一般就得就近原则修饰了。

求指教

作者: 几米的世界9 时间: 2014-8-14 15:09

DUKB24 发表于 2012-10-21 22:40
9. In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 perc ...

你好！
请问这个句子对么：Company A has a management system that is more efficient than that of Company B.

作者: Hendy 时间: 2014-12-28 23:00
语义语义

作者: 成成儿 时间: 2015-3-12 10:35

sisichen666 发表于 2012-10-21 23:25
额。。。。LZ见过哪道题有比较吨和kg，厘米和米的吗？？？这种计量单位有比较的意义吗？？？？只有实词有意 ...

这个解释好新奇，后头看看有没有比较这些量词的，谢谢sisichen666

作者: daidaiyula 时间: 2015-12-17 16:21

DUKB24 发表于 2012-10-21 22:40
9. In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 perc ...

关于这个题，我和楼主遇到了一样的困惑，但是还有一点不太一样，恳请求解。
我认为nearly那后半句是修饰紧前面41 million tons的，所以我认为了是tons和tons比较，在第一时间就排除了production和harvest比较的可能，最后导致了错误。不知道，这种“comma＋比较”这种形式怎么筛选出是在比较前面的哪个部分呢？

作者: fesche 时间: 2016-4-21 06:55
我对这题究竟是哪个比较哪个也是非常模糊的，我用的是排除法，欢迎吐糟

首先可以马上把CD排除，一定不是年份的，剩下ABE
A：those指代tons，但是tons是可数，不能用less
E：that指代rice production，不可数，不能用few

只剩下B

作者: 芒果脑壳 时间: 2016-9-19 22:20
其实很简单啊，理解了就好了
A选项里的those of 指代的是“1978年harvest中的41million tons”，拿这个再来和“1979年的41million tons”相比毫无意义啊。
所以A比较对象直接错了

作者: 阿君怪 时间: 2016-12-9 22:49
曼哈顿上说： use less with unit nouns, when you really want to indicate something about the underlying quantity.
example : We have less than 20 dollars.
If you write We have fewer than twenty dollars, you would mean the actual pieces of paper.
同理：这里的tons指的是数量，是rice production的总重量为40 million tons，所以应该用less.

作者: fzjj 时间: 2017-3-13 00:31
我感觉这道题OG解释弄复杂了
从语义上来说：产量比前一年少了25% 变成了40M TONS ，那40M TONS应该是前一年的75%啊所以逗号后的MODIFER是修饰整个句子而不是 40M TONS。（说得比较复杂，其实凭直觉可以判断出）
从语法来说，这是同位语句型，逗号后的修饰前面整个句子
In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons, nearly 25 percentless than the 1978 harvest.
=
1.In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to about 41 million tons
2.In 1979 lack of rain reduced India’s rice production to nearly 25 percent less than the 1978 harvest.

一开始就想到底是什么跟什么比较：是1978年粮食产量跟1979年粮食产量比，题干已经给出1979年产量我现在需要相对应的1978年产量直接选B

作者: colorfuljiajia 时间: 2017-4-23 18:20
谢谢DUKB24的解释，很好。
补充一下，这里用less 是因为use less with unit nouns.

作者: 葱花kdku 时间: 2017-9-21 19:14
Less and fewer
1、When something uncountable decreases, we use “less”:
1) Pennsylvania has less land than does Georgia.
2) I have gotten less water in my basement since sealing the windows.
2、When something countable decreases, we use “fewer”:
1) My dorm had fewer international students.
2) When fewer people are unemployed, the interest rates tend to rise.

3、when we compare numbers, and numbers decrease, we can simply go back to using “less.”
1) The population of Mongolia is less than that（the population） of Los Angeles.
2) The cost of a night at the opera is less than total cost of a day at the ballgame.

作者: 小陈冲鸭 时间: 2018-8-19 13:16

DUKB24 发表于 2012-10-21 23:16
OG上的解释感觉并没有否定that/those of 因为前面没有类似的结构所以不对，而是因为that/those的指代会 ...

可是og的解释里确实说了those指代的是tons呀…就算他解释的不完全总不能是错的吧

作者: 小陈冲鸭 时间: 2018-8-19 13:27

Hendy 发表于 2014-12-28 23:00
语义语义

这样想想好像说“比1978年的收成的吨数少”确实不太对哦

作者: 小陈冲鸭 时间: 2018-8-19 13:29

colorfuljiajia 发表于 2017-4-23 18:20
谢谢DUKB24的解释，很好。
补充一下，这里用less 是因为use less with unit nouns.

之前看Manhattan一直是这么记的但是刚刚看到各种各样的解释之后我迷茫了……

作者: chase1026 时间: 2018-8-21 16:48

阿君怪发表于 2016-12-9 22:49
曼哈顿上说： use less with unit nouns, when you really want to indicate something about the underly ...

Mark一下！

作者: chase1026 时间: 2018-8-21 16:52

葱花kdku 发表于 2017-9-21 19:14
Less and fewer
1、When something uncountable decreases, we use “less”:
1) Pennsylvania has less la ...

Mark一下！

作者: Hendy 时间: 2018-8-31 21:52

小陈冲鸭发表于 2018-8-19 13:27
这样想想好像说“比1978年的收成的吨数少”确实不太对哦

我已经读完MBA了

作者: 小陈冲鸭 时间: 2018-9-1 09:44

Hendy 发表于 2018-8-31 21:52
我已经读完MBA了

哇！！太棒了我97年的明年准备出国

作者: Hendy 时间: 2018-12-25 21:04

小陈冲鸭发表于 2018-9-1 09:44
哇！！太棒了我97年的明年准备出国

牛牛的, 加油

作者: DADAFT 时间: 2019-11-9 23:42

fzjj 发表于 2017-3-13 00:31
我感觉这道题OG解释弄复杂了
从语义上来说：产量比前一年少了25% 变成了40M TONS ，那40M TONS应该是前一年 ...

说的很对！应该是从语义出发。特别是关于40M实际是已经减少的量，所以是不可能将40M tons进行比较的，这个点很关键！感谢！！！！

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