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标题: 语法求助 [打印本页]

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 03:06
标题: 语法求助
Except for a concert performance that the composer himself staged in 1911, Scott Joplin’s ragtime opera Treemonisha was not produced until 1972, sixty-one years after its completion.
(A) Except for a concert performance that the composer himself staged
(B) Except for a concert performance with the composer himself staging it
(C) Besides a concert performance being staged by the composer himself
(D) Excepting a concert performance that the composer himself staged
(E) With the exception of a concert performance with the staging done by the composer himself

答案：A
这题的B，只讨论with，with究竟错哪里？我感觉只是wordy和awkward，就纯粹语法而言，with的用法在这里是正确的吗？

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-6 03:41
B选项，with修饰performance，即with所修饰的名词就是它的逻辑宾语, 其后面不可以再补出宾语（it）

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 07:58
这样的话，with的作用和that是类似的。看上去，这个解释不是很通。。。而且，没有it的话，这个句子也可以理解为：（他人）做演奏，作者只是在（伴随）演奏。而究竟作者自己是不是在演奏这个作品，并不能完全确定，ambiguous。

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 08:23
I'm not quite sure about the redundancy of it here

but choice B is wordier and much more indirect than A

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 08:29
Yes, this is my idea, however, the explanation gives that "with phrase" here is ungrammatical.

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 08:41

Yes, this is my idea, however, the explanation gives that "with phrase" here is ungrammatical.

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/6 8:29:30)

http://www.beatthegmat.com/ogv-18-t85461.html

I don't see ungrammatical here..but the instructor's explanation is quite pale and brief here .. maybe choice B is quite easy for native to recognize its error

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 09:05
Thanks a lot! I think the original explanation, "with" here is ungrammatical, is right. As "with" means to accompany or accompanying, it cannot modify the belonging. Obviously, the "composer himself" has shown that this performance was not accompanied, but just done by the composer himself. BTW, do you think "it" here is unnecessary? I am confused......

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 09:25

Thanks a lot! I think the original explanation, "with" here is ungrammatical, is right. As "with" means to accompany or accompanying, it cannot modify the belonging. Obviously, the "composer himself" has shown that this performance was not accompanied, but just done by the composer himself. BTW, do you think "it" here is unnecessary? I am confused......

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/6 9:05:41)

i think the with here is grammatically correct, but just a little bit wordy and indirect

with is a versatile modifier（it can play nearly all sorts of modifying role，noun modifier，verb modifier as well as adverbial modifier）

after thinking for a while， I think #1sisichen666 ’s explanation is right

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-6 09:31
192. Cajuns speak a dialect brought to southern Louisiana by the four thousand Acadians who migrated there in 1755; their language is basically seventeenth-century French to which has been added English, Spanish, and Italian words.
(A) to which has been added English, Spanish, and Italian words
(B) added to which is English, Spanish, and Italian words
(C) to which English, Spanish, and Italian words have been added
(D) with English, Spanish, and Italian words having been added to it（C）
(E) and, in addition, English, Spanish, and Italian words are added

记得有这么一个问题的，出现在这道题D选项，与LZ提出的问题可一起考虑

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 10:20

192. Cajuns speak a dialect brought to southern Louisiana by the four thousand Acadians who migrated there in 1755; their language is basically seventeenth-century French to which has been added English, Spanish, and Italian words.
(A) to which has been added English, Spanish, and Italian words
(B) added to which is English, Spanish, and Italian words
(C) to which English, Spanish, and Italian words have been added
(D) with English, Spanish, and Italian words having been added to it（C）
(E) and, in addition, English, Spanish, and Italian words are added

记得有这么一个问题的，出现在这道题D选项，与LZ提出的问题可一起考虑

-- by 会员 sisichen666 (2012/10/6 9:31:35)

这样就更加深了我对那位instructor所谓的it是unnecessary的疑惑了

关于prep的这题我和instructor的思路一样，D选项的it并不是多余，而是ambiguous：http://www.beatthegmat.com/cajuns-t58478.html（stacey的回复）

但是关于LZ贴的这道题，没搞懂为什么it就是unnecessary

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 11:19
是啊。搞不懂。。。。

作者: yakev6 时间: 2012-10-6 12:10
个人感觉。
1. 定语从句改成了with名词修饰语改变含义。
2. 这个with用的很不好，表现不出performance和staging之间的关系。
3. it 是多余的，成了performance with the composer himself staging performance
附送with介宾做名词修饰语的例句
95.The peaks of a mountain range,acting like rocks in a streambed, produce ripples in the air flowing over them；the resulting flow pattern, with crests and troughs that remain stationary although the air that forms them is moving rapidly, is known as "standing waves".

69.The Anasazi settlementsat Chaco Canyon were built on a spectacular scale, with more than 75 carefully engineered structures, of up to 600 rooms each, connected by a complex regional system of roads.

81.Since 1986, when the Department of Labor began to allow fees of investment officers to be based on the performance of the funds they manage, several corporations have begun paying their investment advisersa small basic fee, with a contract promising higher feesif the managers perform well.

162. Orb-weaving spiders such as the argiope build webs that are essentially wheel-like, with an outer rim and a number of spokes emanating from the hub.

7. The intricate structure of the compound insect eye, with its hundreds of miniature eyescalled ommatidia, helps explain why scientists have assumed that it evolved independently of the vertebrate eye.

With a new park, stadium, and entertainment complex along the Delaware River, Trenton, New Jersey, is but one of a large number of communities that are looking to use their waterfronts to improve the quality of urban life and attract new businesses.

155. With surface temperatures estimated at minus 230 degrees Fahrenheit, Jupiter's moon Europa has long been considered far too cold to support life, its 60 square miles of water thought to be frozen from top to bottom.

Except for a concert performance that the composer himself staged in 1911, Scott Joplin’s ragtime opera Treemonisha was not produced until 1972, sixty-one years after its completion.
(A) Except for a concert performance that the composer himself staged
(B) Except for a concert performance with the composer himself staging it
(C) Besides a concert performance being staged by the composer himself
(D) Excepting a concert performance that the composer himself staged
(E) With the exception of a concert performance with the staging done by the composer himself

答案：A
这题的B，只讨论with，with究竟错哪里？我感觉只是wordy和awkward，就纯粹语法而言，with的用法在这里是正确的吗？

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/6 3:06:24)

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 21:22
从A里可以看出，performence是可以作为stage的宾语的。如果没有it，performence和with后面的staging，有可能是两个人啊。。。。另外，在您给的例子里，7，with后面的its中的it指的是？structure还是eyes？无论哪个，这里with后面也出现了it。这个算您在回帖里说的重复吗？

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 21:38
对于第一点

有点意见1. with modifier和that-clause究其本质都可以认为是一个noun modifier，这里modifier的性质并没有改变

要说改变的话，就是潜在的从属关系that-clause确切的表示了所谓的performance的地位，和后面部分的关系

而with就比较模糊

让我想起了OG上的一道题目

OG12 #86 The results of the company's cost-cutting measures are evident inits profits, which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months ofthis year after falling over the last two years.

with和which的split

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-6 21:44
是啊，我刚才给版主回的你看了吗？我越来越感觉it不多于，只是with的用法在这里比较awkward，wordy。。。。。it是无辜的。。。

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-6 22:21

是啊，我刚才给版主回的你看了吗？我越来越感觉it不多于，只是with的用法在这里比较awkward，wordy。。。。。it是无辜的。。。

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/6 21:44:27)

哪来的版主，他是900分巨牛，突破800无极限

作者: yakev6 时间: 2012-10-6 23:11

从A里可以看出，performence是可以作为stage的宾语的。如果没有it，performence和with后面的staging，有可能是两个人啊。。。。另外，在您给的例子里，7，with后面的its中的it指的是？structure还是eyes？无论哪个，这里with后面也出现了it。这个算您在回帖里说的重复吗？

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/6 21:22:55)

嗯，我很同意你说的stage和performance之间是动宾关系，因为原句是定语从句。
我的理解是B选项改成with之后，动宾关系丢失，变成了伴随关系，含义上改变了。
至于it是否充分，我保留意见。。。不是很确定，因为既然是名词修饰语这个with就要attach到这个名词上，而with结构内又是动宾关系，Except for a concert performance with the composer himself staging performance.让人感觉逻辑结构非常不清晰。

第7题里面的its没有问题，因为这个its表现的是with结构和其修饰名词之间的从属关系，而这个its指代谁要从逻辑上判断，with修饰的是谁这个its就指代谁。这题很明显是 compound insect eye

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-7 03:10
如果改成：with the composer himself staging another one. 是否也说得通呢？我的意思是，with后面没有it的话，staging的宾语是？我刚才查了下，stage可以做vt.和vi. 如果stage做vi理解，那么composer himself未必非要演奏自己的作品，因为他是在伴随，而himself只是强调在演奏的是他的作品。但是，stage做vt的时候，it就不是unnecessary，并且意思就准确无二了--这样理解是不是过于牵强了？with能搞死人啊。。。

作者: yakev6 时间: 2012-10-7 13:50

如果改成：with the composer himself staging another one. 是否也说得通呢？我的意思是，with后面没有it的话，staging的宾语是？我刚才查了下，stage可以做vt.和vi. 如果stage做vi理解，那么composer himself未必非要演奏自己的作品，因为他是在伴随，而himself只是强调在演奏的是他的作品。但是，stage做vt的时候，it就不是unnecessary，并且意思就准确无二了--这样理解是不是过于牵强了？with能搞死人啊。。。

-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/10/7 3:10:58)

如果按照原句来理解，stage只能做vt，因为定语从句先行词和定语从句的动词之间本身就是动宾关系。如果改成你写这个句子含义肯定也就不一样了。

作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-7 14:49
个人还是感觉得吧。。。咱还是别想着怎么改对不对，还是多总结这么用的不合理和合理性比较好吧。。。。

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-7 21:36
如果stage这里默认为vt，那么更应该加个it了，with只是表示伴随意义的连接，stage得有个宾语。。。。

作者: slr257 时间: 2012-10-7 21:39
with不合理，因为它改变了原意所强调的从属关系。表达本身也很awkward和wordy - 我的看法。这个it是不是多余呢？

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