ChaseDream

标题: Help,XDF-S4-6, use of ",", like, unlike, as [打印本页]

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-4 13:16
标题: Help,XDF-S4-6, use of ",", like, unlike, as
6. Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, like adults, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(A) like adults
(B) unlike an adult
(C) as adults
(D) as adults do
(E) as an adult

I know the answer should be  D.

But I'm not sure about the comma and want to  know how to correct the sentence by using "as adults do" or "like adults" or "unlike adults".

Attention:
the following sentences may need some change to be correct, I'm not sure and put them here for your help.

eg.
1.
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(no comma before "as adults do")

2.
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(a comma before "as adults do")

3.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically like adults.
(no comma before " like adults")

4.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically,like adults.
(a comma before" like adults")

5.
Because unlike adults, young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(no comma before "unlike adults")

6.
Because,unlike adults, young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(a comma before "unlike adults")

7.
Because young children,unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

8.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because  unlike adults, they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.
(no comma before "unlike adults")

9.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because ,unlike adults, they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.
(a comma before "unlike adults")

10.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they, unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.

11.(if there's any other correct one)

Can any  NN help choose or give the correct sentences and explain why?

Thanks in advance.

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-4 14:50:07编辑过]

作者: lyricling 时间: 2003-7-4 13:44
嘻嘻，很有意思的例子。大家快来看看！！！

作者: jubel 时间: 2003-7-4 16:25
我觉得6和8是对的，当然，在没有正确的as选项的情况下

作者: lyricling 时间: 2003-7-4 18:20
偶还有一些例子，大家看看，对不对呢？

Because young children do not organize,like adults, their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

Young children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore,because they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, unlike adults who can do so.

Because young children do not think systematically like adults, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-4 19:41
怎么区分啊？我糊涂了。

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-4 21:13
我认为1、2、6、7、9、10是正确的用法

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-4 21:59:34编辑过]

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-4 21:32

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-4 21:13:00的发言：
我认为1、2、6、9、10是正确的用法

Why?

1stzhang, could u please help me distinguish those sentences?Thanks.

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-4 21:55
Very interesting! "LIKE" or "UNLIKE" and" AS "here  are all  indicators of comparison. Let me try to tell the differences among them as follows,

"Like" ,which is a  preposition, should be followed by a noun or pronoun, and such a noun or pronoun need to be paralleled with the subject of the sentence.Commonly, the position of the phrase led by "like" in a sentence used to be : the beginner of a sentence or the middle of the subject and the predicate in a sentence.Only if a phrase led by "like" serves as a predicative, it wil be placed at the end of sentence.

eg:
1、Like her sisters, Emily also wrote a world-class novel.
2、Some suspect that corporate naptime, like other perks, is just a way to keep people at the office longer.
3、I am very like my elder brother.

Being a conjunction, "as" ought to be followed by a subordinate clause, which includes a subject and a verb. The objective of using  such a clause is to avoid  repetition in the predicate and that of comprison of a clause led by "as" with the main clause is to show their differences.The clause led by "as" can  be placed after the main cluse or  in the middle of the main clause and another subordinate clause.In addition, sometimes the structure of the clause preceded by "as" can be the same as that of question sentence.

eg:
1、He was a Catholic, as most of his friends were .
2、She believed, as did all her family, that the king was their superme lord.

So, due to the above-mentioned statements, I think that correct sentences are 2、7、10 and the sentences written by lyricling are wrong.
Welcome comments!

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-4 21:55:51编辑过]

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-4 22:03
1.
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(no comma before "as adults do")

2.
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(a comma before "as adults do")
1、2我们把他们分为一组，as这个词后面是可以接句子的表示整个句子的比较，用“，”隔开不是那么重要。

3.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically like adults.
(no comma before " like adults")

4.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically,like adults.
(a comma before" like adults")

3、4一组，错误的原因是like要靠近它的比较对象。这种用法从结构上就是错误的。

5.
Because unlike adults, young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(no comma before "unlike adults")

8.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because unlike adults, they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.
(no comma before "unlike adults")

5，8也是结构上的错误，好象是because 引导的unlike但是because是个连词是只可以接完整的句子的。

6.
Because,unlike adults, young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(a comma before "unlike adults")

7.
Because young children,unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

9.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because ,unlike adults, they do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.
(a comma before "unlike adults")

10.
Yong children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they, unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.

6、7、9、10为一组，因为这里把unlike adults作为插入成分存在，而插入成分的位置是十分灵活的，所以他们是正确的。

在此我纠正一下，我上面的答案，我个人认为1、2、6、7、9、10是正确的用法。

欢迎讨论

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-4 23:58

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-4 22:03:00的发言：

1、2我们把他们分为一组，as这个词后面是可以接句子的表示整个句子的比较，用“，”隔开不是那么重要。

我到觉得这个逗号很重要，如果as adults do前面没有逗号，如句1，那么because引导的状从后面又多了一个as引导的从句，这不符合英语习惯用法。
正确的用法是句2，as adults do 是做插入语；也可把1句改为：
1.
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions as systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
再举一例：
Because Yaoming is unusually tall, as are his parents, he also becomes a basket-ball player.
or:
Because Yaoming is as unusually tall as are his parents, he also becomes a basket-ball player.

3、4、5、8四句我跟你的理解差不多，就不说了；

6、7、9、10为一组，因为这里把unlike adults作为插入成分存在，而插入成分的位置是十分灵活的，所以他们是正确的。

虽然这里的unlike adults是作插入语，但是它的位置也不是飘忽不定的，而是应该按照英语习惯来决定——一般是出现在比较对象的后面或是提到整个句子的前面作状语；
再举一例：
Some suspect that corporate naptime, like other perks, is just a way to keep people at the office longer.
or:
Like other perks, corporate naptime is just a way to keep people at the office longer.

所以我觉得2、7、10才是正确的！

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-5 0:05:18编辑过]

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-5 13:54
这个我还是保留意见。第一个题目的as是省略的，是正确的。67910都是对的

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-5 16:02
tocean0222 关于like, unlike作插入语的位置，我基本赞成。补充两句例外。

按照英语习惯来决定——一般是出现在比较对象的后面或是提到整个句子的前面作状语。

Like XXXX, 或者(,) like XXX(,)

15. More than thirty years ago Dr. Barhara Mc—Clintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can “jump.” like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another. (A-P1-227)

16. Artificial intelligence emerged during the late 1950’s as an academic discipline based on the assumption that computers could be programmed to think like people.(D-P44-6)

as 作为比较的用法：一个句子的比较，前面要加，AS引导的从句后，也要加，

例：5. Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore. (B-p88-6)

6. According to a recent poll, owning and living in a freestanding house on its own land is still a goal of a majority of young adults, as it was of earlier generations. (B-p162-16)

根据这些原则，我个人认为：

1，错，因为AS前少了，

2，对，

3,4对，结构与这句相似：

16. Artificial intelligence emerged during the late 1950’s as an academic discipline based on the assumption that computers could be programmed to think like people.(D-P44-6)

5,8错，原因与1stzhang同

6,7，9,10，对。

欢迎讨论。

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-5 16:23:09编辑过]

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-5 16:43
第一个题目as是省略的，是正确的。3，4是错误的，简单名词的比较和比喻及句子的比较是不可以这样认为的

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-5 17:19

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-5 16:43:00的发言：
第一个题目as是省略的，是正确的。3，4是错误的，简单名词的比较和比喻及句子的比较是不可以这样认为的

可以说得详细一点吗？谢谢。

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-5 18:29
第一个句子其实就是：Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions （as）systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

Artificial intelligence emerged during the late 1950’s as an academic discipline based on the assumption that computers could be programmed to think like people.
这个句子是个比喻用法，并不可以说明什么问题

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-5 22:09

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-5 18:29:00的发言：
第一个句子其实就是：Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions （as）systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

Artificial intelligence emerged during the late 1950’s as an academic discipline based on the assumption that computers could be programmed to think like people.
这个句子是个比喻用法，并不可以说明什么问题

1stzhang,
你说的1句是省略了第一个as，这种用法的确存在，但是在非正式文体中，我觉得这种用法在gmat中是不允许的，as+adjective or adverb +as才是standard english;
另外我觉得第2句中as不是比喻，as在这里是“作为“的意思，不是作连词用，based on...是后置定语修饰discipline的，因此根我们所讨论的as adults do的用法是不一样的，不能由此象joywzy说的那样3、4是对的；

joywzy,

关于你举的例子，
15. More than thirty years ago Dr. Barhara Mc—Clintock, the Nobel Prize winner, reported that genes can “jump.” like pearls moving mysteriously from one necklace to another. (A-P1-227)
这个句子的like用在句尾是因为pearls后面的修饰语太长，所以后置，是一特例；

16. Artificial intelligence emerged during the late 1950’s as an academic discipline based on the assumption that computers could be programmed to think like people.(D-P44-6)
这个句子的like people是做think的宾补，不是做插入语，所以可用在句末，我已经在前面提过，比如：
He looks very like his elder brother
因此不能说由此说6、9的用法是对的；

例：5. Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore. (B-p88-6)

6. According to a recent poll, owning and living in a freestanding house on its own land is still a goal of a majority of young adults, as it was of earlier generations. (B-p162-16)

这2个例子体现了as+subject+verb的习惯用法，在这点上我跟你的观点一致！

欢迎继续讨论和大牛指点！

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-5 22:28:09编辑过]

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-5 22:46
我没有说as是比喻，我是说的joy举地例子。like地用法

“你说的1句是省略了第一个as，这种用法的确存在，但是在非正式文体中，我觉得这种用法在gmat中是不允许的，as+adjective or adverb +as才是standard english;”

tocean0222 这个观点我不同意，gmat地语法是比较答案，1这种只是不正规不能说不对，但是在选择地时候不可以轻易地放弃答案

作者: siebel 时间: 2003-7-5 22:49
Jian4 Xing2 Jian4 Yuan3...

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-5 23:11
1stzhang兄，

呵呵，原来是这样，不过我更倾向于formal的用法，至少1句的用法我在正式文体我没见过，肯能是我看的还太少，不知道你能否找出个例句让我解惑呢？另外还有类似6、9两句的例子。先谢了！

siebel兄，

你也发表点意见啊？

期待ing...

作者: 1stzhang 时间: 2003-7-6 09:30
tocean0222，你好！

看了你很多语法和逻辑地帖子，受益匪浅。这几个句子地比较其中（1）的确不正规
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.但是我们看看gmat地语法题目，有这样一个映像有些正确答案也说地很不正规，特别是在比较和省略中。有些不正规地答案经常成为正确答案。这样的例子好像在正规地问题中比较难找，我也没有见过，请各位继续补充。

（6）（9）都是插入语地使用，在张道争地语法中对插入语地论述已经比较详细，由于插入语地用法十分灵活，我也举不出什么好地例子。但是插入语只要不违背两个原则就可以：（1）不可以吧句子地主要意思部分放在插入语，在gmat语法中体现有几个题目，比如把比较中地主体部分：less than放为插入语，就是错误地；（2）不产生歧义。

请各位继续讨论！

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-6 9:36:36编辑过]

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-6 12:47
1stzhang, tocean,

Thank you for your explanation and discussion , which benefit me a lot .

Anyway, all the senteces we discussed is not the real one. In the real test, we might find more errors in the wrong choices , thus remindins us to choose the corret one.Therefore, we only the general rules of as and like, i guess it is enough.

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-6 15:04

以下是引用joywzy在2003-7-6 12:47:00的发言：
1stzhang, tocean,

Thank you for your explanation and discussion , which benefit me a lot .

Anyway, all the senteces we discussed is not the real one. In the real test, we might find more errors in the wrong choices , thus remindins us to choose the corret one.Therefore, we only the general rules of as and like, i guess it is enough.

1stzhang, joy
再补充一点，

关于插入语的用法可能很难总结，下面是我从gmat中找的几个例子，希望能给大家一些启发:
1、There is no consensus on what role, if any, is played by acid rain in damaging or slowing the growth of forests in the easten United States.

2、The emperor Augustus, it appears, commissioned an idealized sculptured portrait, the features of which are so unrealistic as to constitute what one scholar calls an "artificial face".

3、The pattern of whisker spots on the face of a male lion, like human fingerprints , is a lifelong means of identification, since it is both unique and unchanging.

4、According to some annalusts, whatever its merits, the proposal to tax away all capital gains on short-term investments would , if enacted , have a diastrous effect on Wall Sreet trading and employment.

通过观察我发现，这些插入语一般被放在其修饰的或密切相关的key words后面，还有一列没找到，就是考it is hoped那题，用法也是这样，所以我个人认为插入语用法又一个就近原则，就是要靠近其修饰的或密切相关的中心词。

不知道大家有何想法？

作者: joywzy 时间: 2003-7-6 16:47
这些插入语一般被放在其修饰的或密切相关的key words后面，还有一列没找到，就是考it is hoped那题，用法也是这样，所以我个人认为插入语用法又一个就近原则，就是要靠近其修饰的或密切相关的中心词。

坚决赞成!!!!

考it is hoped那题，还考到了逻辑意思的合理性。

tocean，我发现越是做到后面，SC考的就是意思和逻辑意思的合理性。尤其是其中的难点，修饰语的问题，我总是把握不好。实际上与这个插入语的用法是异曲同工的。

不知你对修饰语的把握上有什么好办法吗？谢谢。

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-6 19:59
Thanks for all the discussion. I'm reading.

wait to see if i have any further Gamt questions.

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-7 00:07

以下是引用joywzy在2003-7-6 16:47:00的发言：
这些插入语一般被放在其修饰的或密切相关的key words后面，还有一列没找到，就是考it is hoped那题，用法也是这样，所以我个人认为插入语用法又一个就近原则，就是要靠近其修饰的或密切相关的中心词。

坚决赞成!!!!

考it is hoped那题，还考到了逻辑意思的合理性。

tocean，我发现越是做到后面，SC考的就是意思和逻辑意思的合理性。尤其是其中的难点，修饰语的问题，我总是把握不好。实际上与这个插入语的用法是异曲同工的。

不知你对修饰语的把握上有什么好办法吗？谢谢。

joy,

我也没有太好的办法，不过我觉得关键就是要搞清楚2个问题：
1、这个修饰语的结构和含义；
2、它在句中起什么作用；
这样的话，才能迅速的找到其修饰的对象，直至最后解题！

你呢？有什么建议？

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 09:19

以下是引用tocean0222在2003-7-6 15:04:00的发言：
还有一列没找到，就是考it is hoped那题

Tocean0222, is it the following sentence?

Modernizing the steel mill, a program that can, it is hoped, be completed in the late 1980's, will cost approximately 51 million dollars.(xdf-s2-16)

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 9:21:59编辑过]

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 11:59
TOCEAN0222,

I think that No.6,No.9 may be correct,

since,
it's one of the following two formal structures in Gmat,

like A, B ...
unlike A, B...

and since

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-6 9:30:00的发言：
插入语只要不违背两个原则就可以：
（1）不可以把句子的主要意思部分放在插入语，
在gmat语法中体现有几个题目，比如把比较中的主体部分：less than放为插入语，就是错误的；
（2）不产生歧义。

how do you think?

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 12:06:45编辑过]

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-7 12:30

以下是引用isuffering在2003-7-7 11:59:00的发言：
TOCEAN0222,

I think that No.6,No.9 may be correct,

since,
it's one of the following two formal structures in Gmat,

like A, B ...
unlike A, B...

and since

how do you think?

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 12:06:45编辑过]

isuffering，

先谢谢你帮我找得句子！
1、你说的结构是对的，但是你要注意like..或unlike..都是提前作了状语，而不是在句中作插入语。
2、6、9两句前面如果没有because就对了，这种用法可能老外也看的懂，但不符合英语的习惯用法---一般把插入语放在其修饰或密切关联的中心词后面，例子前面我举了很多了。你也可以留意在阅读中找找跟6、9类似的句子，相信很难找到。

所以我个人认为最好不要认为类似6、9句的结构是对的！

good luck!

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 12:38

以下是引用1stzhang在2003-7-5 22:46:00的发言：

tocean0222说的1句是省略了第一个as，这种用法的确存在，但是在非正式文体中.我觉得这种用法在gmat中是不允许的，as+adjective or adverb +as才是standard english;”

tocean0222 这个观点我不同意，gmat地语法是比较答案，1这种只是不正规不能说不对，但是在选择地时候不可以轻易地放弃答案

Tocean0222,lstzhang,

So appreciate your discussion,thanks.

As to no. 1 sentence, I got some idea from your discussion.

It seems that Sentence 1 is still a question sentence, i.e.,we can't make sure whether it's correct in Gmat though we know that it's not formal.

Anyway, we can choose the better one from the choices through killing some obvious errors,right?

Thanks again.

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 12:42

以下是引用tocean0222在2003-7-7 12:30:00的发言：
6、9两句前面如果没有because就对了，这种用法可能老外也看的懂，但不符合英语的习惯用法---一般把插入语放在其修饰或密切关联的中心词后面，例子前面我举了很多了。你也可以留意在阅读中找找跟6、9类似的句子，相信很难找到。

所以我个人认为最好不要认为类似6、9句的结构是对的！

Thanks tocean0222, I see.

So let me still call No.6.No.9 question sentences like No.1

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-7 12:51
isuffering,

yeah,but remember one thing: the objective of SC in gmat is to know how well test takers understand the meaning of a sentence which is expressed in formal and concise English,
as well as how well they master the usages of English.

good luck!

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 13:36:20编辑过]

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 13:52
Thanks tocean0222, I think I'd better take your suggestions, thanks again.

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 14:11:00编辑过]

作者: isuffering 时间: 2003-7-7 14:08
Thanks for all the discussion.

At least we can make sure that No.2,7,10,11 sentences are correct,

No.2
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.
(a comma before "as adults do")

No.7
Because young children,unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

No.10
Young children may notice and remember details that their elders ignore, because they, unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically.

No.11
Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions as systematically as adults do, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

And No.3,4,5,8 are definitely wrong.

And No.1,6,9 are not formal, and we'd bettter not take them as good sentences in Gmat.

Thanks again.

[此贴子已经被作者于2003-7-7 15:14:57编辑过]

作者: tocean0222 时间: 2003-7-7 20:47
isuffering,

Also thanks your question and summary!

good luck!

作者: 八戒 时间: 2004-1-11 19:14
经典呀!!

再次强烈顶一下!

tocean0222和1stzhang好久不见了呀.

作者: dajiqi 时间: 2004-10-10 14:24

我认为NO. 10 不对, 起码从翻译的意思上是不太和逻辑的. 起码和句子的原型相比较. 愿意讨论.

作者: ydqsbfs 时间: 2015-5-31 12:39
This is the "like" vs. "as" lesson - be careful, because we all mess this one up in everyday English:

"like" is used to compare nouns. Just nouns - nothing else.
"as" is used to compare clauses (ie, a phrase that includes a verb - could include a noun, too, but has a verb)

We have defaulted, in spoken English, to using "like" all the time - but we're speaking incorrectly when we do so.

So, logically, the sentence is not just comparing children to adults, but what children don't do to what adults do. Children don't organize systematically. Adults do organize systematically. Because the verb is part of this comparison, we have to use "as."

And we can't just use the "as" - we have to say "as adults do" b/c, again, we're comparing the verb.

A "like" sentence might say: Bobby's eyes, like those of his brother Peter, are blue. I'm not comparing "are blue" to something else - in fact, there isn't even another verb in the sentence to compare with. Here, I really am just comparing Bobby's eyes to Peter's eyes (just nouns), so I use "like."

_________________
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

Stacey Koprince
GMAT Instructor
Director of Online Community
Manhattan GMAT

Contributor to Beat The GMAT!

欢迎光临 ChaseDream (https://forum.chasedream.com/)