ChaseDream
标题: 寻求全面的with的用法 [打印本页]
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-9-9 22:25
标题: 寻求全面的with的用法
做了很多的题目，with主要是作为独立主格式结构，和作为伴随修饰名词的情况；但是明显看到很多次将with+n+从句是错误的认定，但是又在做题时发现有正确答案就是这种格式。。。。。。。。。。。。confusing。。。。。。求NN可以给出最直接最明确的判断方法。。。谢谢啦
作者: 瓦利哥 时间: 2012-9-9 22:44
Lz不要太贪心，自己总结去吧。素材告诉你：prep08 Sc1 190，prep08 Sc1 191，prep08 Sc1 220，prep08 Sc2 175，prep08 Sc2 191，prep08 Sc2 193，prep08 Sc2 205，prep08 Sc2 216，prep08 Sc2 220，prep08 Sc2 223，prep08 Sc2 227，prep07 Sc2 2
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-9-9 23:11
LS说得不错
好好花上1,2H小时去看看with的选项，好建议
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-9-9 23:51
.....貌似大家最近都很纠结with的用法。。。。
我还是不要那么残忍懒得打字了。。。。稍微总结下个人关于with的用法
generally ，with is indeed a versatile modifier（it can modify the preceding noun or clause）
既然它是一个modifier，也要符合总的规矩，it is somewhat related to the main clause（you cannot use with in expressing two independent clause）
so，you should use the context to determine；context is the king
1.adverbial modifier
例子：he went home，with a dog.（在这种情况下，with 充当adverbial modifier，当然你也可以理解为verb modifier，how he went home？ just with the company of a dog）
在这种情况下，comma+with的用法和comma+ving的用法差不多，都是作为adverbial modifier，providing extra information（how/when/where/why。。。）
当然，comma+with不能表示immediate consequence这个要说明
为什么说tricky呢？
当with前面有comma的时候，它也可以修饰preceding noun（要知道comma+ving是不能这样修饰的）
所以with 这个modifier相当蛋疼（至于是修饰preceding clause 还是preceding noun；老话，use the context；我是见过在official source出现comma+with修饰preceding noun的。。。具体哪题忘记了）
2. noun modifier
这种是没逗号的，和ving没逗号差不多，修饰the closest noun
3.有时候with是不需要逻辑主语的（不像例子1，with的逻辑主语是he）
prep出现的正确句子：
With the cost of wirelessservice plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasinglycommon, many people are now using theirmobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, whennumerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively smallmonthly fee.
4、关于with的一些misconception
总见到论坛直接有人很敷衍的回答with不是GMATpreferred的结构，直接排除。。。
这个是很致命的。。。
其实OG上有很多关于with的用法都是正确的，只是包含with这个选项的其他split有问题。。。with本身没有问题
对于with modifier的理解，还要通过多做类似的题去理解
personal opinion open to discussion
hope it helps
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-9-9 23:57
亲。。。。教训的是。。教训的是呀。。。。。其实题目做的很多，总结了一些，但是还是会混淆，所以求助一下NN的好方法
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-9-10 00:03
亲。。。。教训的是。。教训的是呀。。。。。其实题目做的很多，总结了一些，但是还是会混淆，所以求助一下NN的好方法
-- by 会员 sisichen666 (2012/9/9 23:57:13)
做题总结 分-总-分-总才是有效的提高SC
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-9-10 01:00
谢谢您详尽的回复。。。。我也是十分反对直接把with结构当做gmat的错误选项而排除的说法，这是我发的第一张贴，所以不太了解规矩，直接就问问题了，还是贴上例题吧，NN要是方便就帮我分析下：
最基本的知识点就是：独立主格都是with＋n＋ed/ing/prep/adj，而不可以加句子，但没有说可不可以加that，做题中看到with+n+that的结构，就迷茫了，that合适吗？
As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
A.As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing
B.As the heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, with the result that the act of stinging causes
C.The honeybee’s stinger, heavily barbed and staying where it is inserted, results in the fact that the act of stinging causes
D.The heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, and results in the act of stinging causing
E.The honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with the result that the act of stinging causes
正确答案是：the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, withtheresultthatthe act of stinging causes the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
后来看您的解释，感觉应该是that用于修饰the result的，而with结构是作为主句的伴随而使用的独立主格。。。。不知这样理解是否正确呢。。。。
还有一题：
For the last five years the Dutch economy has grown faster than Britain, France, or Germany, with the unemployment rate having remained well below that of the other three countries.
A.Britain, France, or Germany, with the unemployment rate having remained
B.have those of Britain, France, or Germany, and the unemployment rate remaining
C.have Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment rate has remained
D.the economy of Britain, France, and Germany, with the unemployment rate that has remained
E.the economies of Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment rate has remained
正确答案是：E，我对正确答案没什么疑问，但是想问一下，当主句是现在完成时的条件下，with表示伴随功能的独立主格是不可以使用的？因为with即使是修饰，也是会强调与主句的主谓条件有密切关系，且表达伴随的含义的。。。。。。
就是这两点疑虑了，以上也是根据笔记总结后的问题和个人的看法。。。希望NN来指导分析。。。。。
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-9-10 01:03
[quote]
亲。。。。教训的是。。教训的是呀。。。。。其实题目做的很多，总结了一些，但是还是会混淆，所以求助一下NN的好方法
-- by 会员 sisichen666 (2012/9/9 23:57:13)
做题总结 分-总-分-总才是有效的提高SC-- by 会员
DUKB24 (2012/9/10 0:03:10)
好滴，一定按这种方法好好奋斗！！！！！！！
作者: wyw1018 时间: 2012-9-10 03:47
谢谢您详尽的回复。。。。我也是十分反对直接把with结构当做gmat的错误选项而排除的说法，这是我发的第一张贴，所以不太了解规矩，直接就问问题了，还是贴上例题吧，NN要是方便就帮我分析下：
最基本的知识点就是：独立主格都是with＋n＋ed/ing/prep/adj，而不可以加句子，但没有说可不可以加that，做题中看到with+n+that的结构，就迷茫了，that合适吗？
As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
A.As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed, staying where it is inserted, this results in the act of stinging causing
B.As the heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, with the result that the act of stinging causes
C.The honeybee’s stinger, heavily barbed and staying where it is inserted, results in the fact that the act of stinging causes
D.The heavily barbed stinger of the honeybee stays where it is inserted, and results in the act of stinging causing
E.The honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, with the result that the act of stinging causes
正确答案是：
the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed and stays where it is inserted, withtheresultthatthe act of stinging causes the bee to sustain a fatal injury.
后来看您的解释，感觉应该是that用于修饰the result的，而with结构是作为主句的伴随而使用的独立主格。。。。不知这样理解是否正确呢。。。。
还有一题：
For the last five years the Dutch economy has grown faster than Britain, France, or Germany, with the unemployment rate having remained well below that of the other three countries.
A.Britain, France, or Germany, with the unemployment rate having remained
B.have those of Britain, France, or Germany, and the unemployment rate remaining
C.have Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment rate has remained
D.the economy of Britain, France, and Germany, with the unemployment rate that has remained
E.the economies of Britain, France, and Germany, and the unemployment rate has remained
正确答案是：E，我对正确答案没什么疑问，但是想问一下，当主句是现在完成时的条件下，with表示伴随功能的独立主格是不可以使用的？因为with即使是修饰，也是会强调与主句的主谓条件有密切关系，且表达伴随的含义的。。。。。。
就是这两点疑虑了，以上也是根据笔记总结后的问题和个人的看法。。。希望NN来指导分析。。。。。-- by 会员 sisichen666 (2012/9/10 1:00:00)
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-9-10 08:21
vote for LS的第一个观点。。。第二个观点真心看不懂
关于第一个例子：
我看不出是同位语从句。。。
这里with的用法就是adverbial modifier：
1.In this sentence "that" acts as the marker for the dependent clause.
2. the phrase with the result that the act of stinging causes the bee to sustain a fatal injury serves as an adverb modifying the preceding clause.
second example：
I don't think that the use of with is illegal here（it is fine）
the split between D and E is the economy vs economies
作者: abjure 时间: 2012-9-10 13:55
3.有时候with是不需要逻辑主语的（不像例子1，with的逻辑主语是he）
prep出现的正确句子：
With the cost of wirelessservice plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasinglycommon, many people are now using theirmobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, whennumerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively smallmonthly fee.
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/9/9 23:51:16)
这个我同意， 这个属于独立主格 “with” 用法
作者: abjure 时间: 2012-9-10 13:56
1.adverbial modifier
例子：he went home，with a dog.（在这种情况下，with 充当adverbial modifier，当然你也可以理解为verb modifier，how he went home？ just with the company of a dog）
在这种情况下，comma+with的用法和comma+ving的用法差不多，都是作为adverbial modifier，providing extra information（how/when/where/why。。。）
当然，comma+with不能表示immediate consequence这个要说明
为什么说tricky呢？
当with前面有comma的时候，它也可以修饰preceding noun（要知道comma+ving是不能这样修饰的）
所以with 这个modifier相当蛋疼（至于是修饰preceding clause 还是preceding noun；老话，use the context；我是见过在official source出现comma+with修饰preceding noun的。。。具体哪题忘记了）
2. noun modifier
这种是没逗号的，和ving没逗号差不多，修饰the closest noun
这两个说的不是很明白，能否再深入点？我做preps， with狂错， 逢with必错，要with的我不选， 不要with的我选了。
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-9-10 14:12
。。。。。。例子才说得清。。。。
abjure你的例子呢！
作者: slr257 时间: 2012-9-30 08:39
挖坟了。。。。请问，如果A选项之前加上economies，有可能成为正确选项吗？
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-1 08:42
挖坟了。。。。请问，如果A选项之前加上economies，有可能成为正确选项吗？
-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/9/30 8:39:24)
作者: wyw1018 时间: 2012-10-1 09:40
with +n的用法，和v+ing形式差不多，放在句首和句尾都要考虑逻辑主语的问题，做状语修饰整个主谓结构。
作者: wyw1018 时间: 2012-10-1 09:43
with+n在句中紧跟着名词后面有可能作用和v+ing形式一样，做后置定语修饰前面的名词，所以with+n 结构和v+ing形式非常相似。
作者: wyw1018 时间: 2012-10-1 09:50
挖坟了。。。。请问，如果A选项之前加上economies，有可能成为正确选项吗？
-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/9/30 8:39:24)
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-1 22:15
挖坟了。。。。请问，如果A选项之前加上economies，有可能成为正确选项吗？
-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/9/30 8:39:24)
不行，据我所总结，完成时态的现在分词形式如果前面有词语肯定不对，比如after having done， although having done，以及n+having done做后置限定性定语，这些结构都不对，但是如果having done前面没有词语，比如放在句首，或者前面有逗号，这样的句型可能对，比如S， having done...，V+O，或者Having done...，S+V+O都可能是对的句型。A项要改只能改成remaining 去掉前面的having。
-- by 会员 wyw1018 (2012/10/1 9:50:24)
大哥，。。。。我怎么记得前面主句是完成时，后面with doing表伴随逻辑上不成立呢。。。。貌似是manhattan中的一道例子。。我去找找。。。。
作者: wyw1018 时间: 2012-10-2 00:20
挖坟了。。。。请问，如果A选项之前加上economies，有可能成为正确选项吗？
-- by 会员 slr257 (2012/9/30 8:39:24)
不行，据我所总结，完成时态的现在分词形式如果前面有词语肯定不对，比如after having done， although having done，以及n+having done做后置限定性定语，这些结构都不对，但是如果having done前面没有词语，比如放在句首，或者前面有逗号，这样的句型可能对，比如S， having done...，V+O，或者Having done...，S+V+O都可能是对的句型。A项要改只能改成remaining 去掉前面的having。
-- by 会员 wyw1018 (2012/10/1 9:50:24)
大哥，。。。。我怎么记得前面主句是完成时，后面with doing表伴随逻辑上不成立呢。。。。貌似是manhattan中的一道例子。。我去找找。。。。
-- by 会员 sisichen666 (2012/10/1 22:15:40)
我是从纯语法角度谈论having done的正确用法，没考虑逻辑意思这一块，所以我说是可能对。
作者: wxtttt 时间: 2012-10-9 20:07
今天刚好在纠结 with的用法
看到RON在讨论OG13 90 (OG12 86) 的DE选项说到过：
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its profits, which increased 5 percent during the fi rst 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after having fallen
“in general, “COMMA + prep phrase modifier" is an adverbial modifier, meaning that it modifies the entirety of the preceding clause.
in this sentence, we don't want an adverbial modifier, since it doesn't make any sense for this modifier to apply to the entire preceding clause.
rather, we want a modifier that will only modify the noun at the end of the preceding clause (i.e., "profits"). since this is the exact function of a "which" modifier, that's the modifier we want here.“
然后在E-GMAT forum上看到说COMMA + WITH是可以修饰前面的名词的:
“Now let’s talk about the comma + with modifiers. So here we are talking about prepositional phrases. “with” modifiers are very versatile modifiers. They can modify either the preceding clause or the preceding nouns. What they modify actually depends on the context of the sentence and the wording of the modifier itself.
Bihar is India's poorest state, with an annual per capita income of $111.
In this sentence, with modifier actually modifies the preceding noun. With modifier in this sentence has the following sense. Notice how “which has” can be understood to replace “with”.
India’s poorest state, which has an annual per capita income of $111
However, this modifier can be understood to modify the subject of the clause as well because of the nature of the verb - is. This is a linking verb, which establishes the following relationship:
Bihar = India’s poorest state.”
那么修饰前面的名词的条件是当动词为系动词的时候？（其实跟V-ING修饰主语时的用法一样了）
ANYWAY，感谢DUKB24把总结分享出来，受益匪浅
作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-10-9 21:26
perhaps
I not quite sure about your conclusion
just be cautious when encountering with
analyse the “with” example in OG and prep， you will get crystally clear
作者: lunvs 时间: 2012-10-22 23:44
DU大哥总结的很好，楼主列的两个例子正好是我晚上纠结的两个例子。
关于例子1，with the result that，with是对前面整句修饰（就是普通的介词表伴随不是独立主格结构），而例子2中D选项是对Dutch economy修饰，所以prep说逻辑主语不符。
关于第二个问题，with表伴随的独立主格结构应该不可以使用，完成时动作已完成，不可以伴随
作者: lunvs 时间: 2012-10-22 23:52
GWD-29-Q15
In little more than a decade, Argentina has become the world’s leading exporter of honey, with nearly 90,000 tons a year sold to foreign markets, almost half of which going to the United States.
A.with nearly 90,000 tons a year sold to foreign markets, almost half of which going
B.with the sale of nearly 90,000 tons a year to foreign markets, and almost half of it that goes
C.with the sale to foreign markets of nearly 90,000 tons a year, with almost half of it going
D.selling nearly 90,000 tons a year to foreign markets, and almost half of it goes
E.selling nearly 90,000 tons a year to foreign markets, with almost half going
答案选e
主句是完成时，不是不能伴随么？prep里说伴随分为伴随过程和伴随结果。但都属于伴随，如果被修饰的句子是完成时，则是已经完成了的，不能再被伴随。
那这个selling在这里是什么意思呢？
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2011/10/9 19:03:32)
借用另一个帖子。这里第一个with是介词表原因修饰前面整句，第二个with是独立主格结构，对第二句的伴随（这里为什么可以对它伴随不清楚）
作者: lunvs 时间: 2012-10-23 00:05
另外，还有一点，不要把with的独立主格结构和with的复合结构混淆，with的复合结构可以做状语、定语，作定语时可以理解为独立主格结构
作者: sisichen666 时间: 2012-10-23 01:05
LS的亲来挖坟啦。。嘻嘻。。谢谢又讲了一遍呦~~~
作者: lunvs 时间: 2012-10-23 01:49
你已经考了呗？
作者: 九尾 时间: 2012-11-19 17:21
vote for LS的第一个观点。。。第二个观点真心看不懂
关于第一个例子：
我看不出是同位语从句。。。
这里with的用法就是adverbial modifier：
1.
In this sentence "that" acts as the marker for the dependent clause.2.the phrasewith the result that the act of stinging causes the bee to sustain a fatal injuryserves as an adverb modifying the preceding clause.
second example：
I don't think that the use of with is illegal here（it is fine）
the split between D and E is the economy vs economies
-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/9/10 8:21:42)
但是我觉得D E的economy和economies问题不大啊
作者: 九尾 时间: 2012-11-19 17:39
Aeoluseros对D的看法：
首先D最大的错误仅进在于后面with引导的伴随状语的逻辑主语Dutch economy错误，其次：
个人认为用the economy of Britain, France, and Germany和the economies of Britain, France and Germany都是可以的。
在GMAT中曾经有一题提到过类似用法，用的是单数:
A mixture of poems and short fiction, Jean Toomer's Cane has been called one of the three best novels ever written by a Black American—the others being Richard Wright's Native Son and Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man.
说明单数和复数的搭配并没有问题。
而本题后半句the unemployment rate has remained well below that of the other three countries中后面没有用unemployment rates，按照规则比较结构中单复数不一致、时态不一致都是要重新补出的，但是这里用了that，说明后面用的是单数。并且GMAT不会那么荒谬地认为那三个国家公用一个unemployment rate，所以说明仅使用that即已可以表达出三个国家各自的增长率。
而且在日常英语(非GMAT语境)中the economy of Britain, France and Germany和the economies of Britain, France and Germany都是可以的，类似的有birds have four-chambered hearts和birds have a four-chambered heart都对，因为根据常识不会有歧义。
作者: dszdspc 时间: 2013-2-20 19:34
真是救命贴
作者: joanfighter 时间: 2013-6-8 15:00
瓦利哥 发表于 2012-9-9 22:44 
Lz不要太贪心，自己总结去吧。素材告诉你：prep08 Sc1 190，prep08 Sc1 191，prep08 Sc1 220，prep08 Sc2 1 ...
太详细了谢谢亲~~~~~~
作者: zzwho 时间: 2013-9-22 22:34
DUKB24 发表于 2012-9-10 08:21
vote for LS的第一个观点。。。第二个观点真心看不懂关于第一个例子：我看不出是同位语从句。。。这里with ...
借老大的光，给个刚发现很有用的帖子：
如果你把上面的都看完了，我确定下面这个帖子将更有帮助：http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/in-1988-the-council-on-economic-priorities-began-publishing-t5735.html
作者: 笑小笑小蚂蚁 时间: 2014-9-27 10:24
DUKB24 发表于 2012-9-9 23:51
.....貌似大家最近都很纠结with的用法。。。。我还是不要那么残忍懒得打字了。。。。稍微总结下个人关于wit ...
亲，你说的当with前面有comma的时候，它也可以修饰preceding noun 这一点，我还是不太认可，因为og13 sc90这道题，The results of the company’s cost-cutting measuresare evident in its profits, with a 5 percent increase during the first 3 months of this year after falling over the last two years.。如果with可以修饰前面的名词的话， 那就是说修饰profits，那讲得通啊。 翻译为：在今年的前三个月利润有5%的增长在。
而og上的解释说It is not clear what connection is being described by with; the prepositional phrase makes the sentence wordy and unclear.
混乱啊混乱，求解答
作者: 4747siqi 时间: 2015-2-19 06:34
markmark：-）
作者: xcdamon 时间: 2016-1-20 09:52
顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶顶
作者: 疯狂的狐狸 时间: 2016-4-7 17:54
Mark一下！
作者: 晒个月亮吧 时间: 2018-8-19 16:41
Mark一下！
作者: joii 时间: 2018-8-23 19:23
很有疑问！
贴几句Ron说的
in general, \"COMMA + prep phrase modifier\" is an adverbial modifier, meaning that it modifies the entirety of the preceding clause.
Prep phrase modifiers without commas can modify either the preceding noun or the preceding clause. The distinction depends on context.
这和四楼说的完全相反啊...
comma with可以修饰preceding noun？有例子吗？看了外网的说法都是adv modifier啊
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