ChaseDream

标题: og13-114 starfish,with。。。求拍砖指教!!! [打印本页]

作者: lalapiao    时间: 2012-7-28 10:34
标题: og13-114 starfish,with。。。求拍砖指教!!!
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating

这道题已经问过一次,但好像还没有得出最后解释。我的疑问是为什么C的by不可以?在gmatclub中
A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and--- ]it seems as if the plural starfish is pronouned by the first, singular it; in addition in an active voice sentence, the use of by is improper

B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and -------
seems ok with the SV problem avoided altogether. Here the it should logically refer to the arm. correct choice

C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating, -----use of by is improper in an active voice setting. It should be with the animal rather than by the animal; overcompensating, growing is importer co-ordination. There should be an and in between

D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,’---use of they means that the starfish themselves are replaced; over compensating should be followed by and

E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating, ---in a passive voice we need to use by rather than with ; in addition overcompensating should be followed by and
1.
这里不是说被动中不适合用with吗?而正确答案就是用的with,by和with的问题有些迷惑,求指教!!
2.我选的是E,因为觉得sometimes可以和growing从句一起修饰前面的it is quickly replaced。求拍砖!!


作者: lalapiao    时间: 2012-7-28 23:12
求拍砖,求指教!!
作者: smilingshirley    时间: 2012-7-30 15:18
同问,C为什么不可以
作者: tucaozhuanyong    时间: 2012-8-1 10:21
这题我也选择的C,但是不得不按照OG的意思去理解:OG说C的问题是句子意思有问题。

句子本身的意思是:海星丢了一只手,他可以很快的回复。他可以通过“超强的再生能力“和”本来就多长了几只手”两种能力来恢复。


C的意思是:海星丢了一只手,他可以很快的回复。他可以通过“超强的再生能力”来恢复,这种“超强的再生能力”体现在他可能一次长出来“额外的”1只手或者2只手。
那么,如果是,只长出来一只手的话,我觉得说是“额外的”不太合适。由此,判断,“extra”是本来就多长的手。


你们觉得呢?
作者: cegret    时间: 2012-8-9 10:41
1.with和by的区别:
(1) 做某事时通过什么方法或手段用by:do something by (doing) something。
(2) 表示使用有形工具时,通常用with来表示:write with a pen, see with naked eyes, strike with a hammar
(3) 作”用”讲时,by和with的区别在于:with表示行为动作的工具,后面的名词一般要有冠词;by表示动作的手段,后面的名词一律不用冠词。

本题的B中的with应该是一个独立主格结构,表达伴随状态,修饰前面主谓宾结构
作者: bear1419    时间: 2012-8-9 17:14
同意楼上,看来看去觉得这个with应该用独立主格理解,有种补充说明的含义在里头
作者: 7890613    时间: 2012-9-21 17:51
OG的解释说,在条件从句中,IF X,(then)Y. 这里的X是主动,则Y主动。X被动,则Y被动。
这题考了:1.代词指代,it,they,指代有无歧义。 2.条件句的主被动关系。 3.最后的 overcompensating 和 growing的关系(这部分我也不懂,到底什么关系)
作者: xuzhuo8837863    时间: 2012-9-22 11:17
This page contains the following errors:error on line 1 at column 1452: Unescaped '<' not allowed in attributes values

Below is a rendering of the page up to the first error.[quote]
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating

这道题已经问过一次,但好像还没有得出最后解释。我的疑问是为什么C的by不可以?在gmatclub中

作者: xuzhuo8837863    时间: 2012-9-22 11:18
This page contains the following errors:error on line 1 at column 1452: Unescaped '<' not allowed in attributes values

Below is a rendering of the page up to the first error.[quote]
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating

这道题已经问过一次,但好像还没有得出最后解释。我的疑问是为什么C的by不可以?在gmatclub中

作者: xuzhuo8837863    时间: 2012-9-22 11:22
[quote]
This page contains the following errors:error on line 1 at column 1452: Unescaped '<' not allowed in attributes values

Below is a rendering of the page up to the first error.
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating

这道题已经问过一次,但好像还没有得出最后解释。我的疑问是为什么C的by不可以?在gmatclub中
-- by 会员 xuzhuo8837863 (2012/9/22 11:18:22)

overcompensating 要与growing并列,没有and不行 CDE排除。 By和with都是小词,能不分析就不分析。所以这里只知道c没有and不行,by行不行不知道。剩下AB,A中两个it指代模糊,剩下B,做完
作者: wxtttt    时间: 2012-11-16 15:39
个人觉得BY和WITH在这里用法都正确,GMAT论坛上说BY不适合用在主动句中,这跟WITH不适合用在被动句中一样,都是臆想的。
BY用在主动句中PREP的例子有一打,表通过什么方法。
至于WITH为什么不适合用于被动句,个人觉得是因为WITH修饰的是主谓,逻辑主语不合适。
但with有时是不需要要逻辑主语的,这样想更好:in general, "COMMA + prep phrase modifier" is an adverbial modifier, meaning that it modifies the entirety of the preceding clause.

C的错误点应该是 overcompensating和growing的关系混乱,这里是comma + ving的结构,直接跳过non-modifier修饰前面的they... it。至于overcompensating和growing xxx 是不是两种能力还不清楚,因为and可以表示cause-and-effect relationship,并不是说这两个就是两个东西。从字面来看我觉得是一个东西,只是根据结构来看,CDE使用的结构不好。

这道题的句意理解:the animal 指代 starfish,所以这就是为什么sometimes可以插入animal 和 overcompensating之间

===


求讨论!
作者: yakev6    时间: 2012-12-1 22:17
个人感觉ACE中sometimes的位置不好
BD 中sometimes是作为adv修饰overcompensating and growing : 有时候增生
ACE sometimes作为adv修饰介宾结构by the animal overcompensating and growing 有时候通过增生
含以上略有不同
作者: yakev6    时间: 2012-12-1 22:21
个人感觉ACE中sometimes的位置不好
BD 中sometimes是作为adv修饰overcompensating and growing : 有时候增生
ACE sometimes作为adv修饰介宾结构by the animal overcompensating and growing 有时候通过增生
含以上略有不同
-- by 会员 yakev6 (2012/12/1 22:17:09)



sometimes overcompensating and growing --> 有时候增生,有时候不增生
sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing --> 有时候通过增生,会让人觉得在imply有时候通过另外一种方式
修饰语位置的变化改变了含义。
作者: lalapiao    时间: 2012-12-3 17:08
[quote]
个人觉得BY和WITH在这里用法都正确,GMAT论坛上说BY不适合用在主动句中,这跟WITH不适合用在被动句中一样,都是臆想的。
BY用在主动句中PREP的例子有一打,表通过什么方法。
至于WITH为什么不适合用于被动句,个人觉得是因为WITH修饰的是主谓,逻辑主语不合适。
但with有时是不需要要逻辑主语的,这样想更好:in general, "COMMA + prep phrase modifier" is an adverbial modifier, meaning that it modifies the entirety of the preceding clause.

C的错误点应该是 overcompensating和growing的关系混乱,这里是comma + ving的结构,直接跳过non-modifier修饰前面的they... it。至于overcompensating和growing xxx 是不是两种能力还不清楚,因为and可以表示cause-and-effect relationship,并不是说这两个就是两个东西。从字面来看我觉得是一个东西,只是根据结构来看,CDE使用的结构不好。

这道题的句意理解:the animal 指代 starfish,所以这就是为什么sometimes可以插入animal 和 overcompensating之间

===

对于C的错误确实就是overcompensating 和growing的关系混乱,可以说这里就成了两个状语并列的情况,这种情况在og中是要小心避免的。相同例子可以参照一些将状语两个并列无连词,加一主语的情况---这种错误也不少。
至于sometimes,和前面有关系么?求讨论!

作者: EMMALIULIU    时间: 2012-12-8 20:10
看到C\D\E中,growing前面都出现了逗号,那么就是说growing现在分词修饰前面主句的主语、谓语,或者前面整个主句。再看这三个选项中,前面的结构也不大清晰,说不清楚修饰的是什么。Anyway,就是觉得“逗号+growing”结构不好,改变了原句意思。
作者: EMMALIULIU    时间: 2012-12-8 20:43
我突然想起来,manhattan里有说过,如果原句意思没有非改不可的理由,尽量忠于原句意思。既然原句是说overcompensating and growing,没有错误,就不要改成“overcompensating,growing”的结构。即使改后的句子意思也可以说得通。

这个解释我觉得差不多了。因为我实在想不出“overcompensating,growing”这个结构逻辑意思哪里不对,CD上帖子讨论来讨论去也没个结果。
作者: 蓝梦红林    时间: 2013-3-21 15:27
求解释题干部分 Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, 这里的have是指arms have? 感觉好奇怪。难道不应该是starfish has之类的么?
作者: cyuyolanda    时间: 2013-4-11 12:16
蓝梦红林 发表于 2013-3-21 15:27
求解释题干部分 Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability,  ...

with anywhere from five to eight arms是插入语,是starfish(pl.) have a strong...
作者: cyuyolanda    时间: 2013-4-11 12:19
同时求问 B项  if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two 是考独立主格么?
作者: enkyklios    时间: 2013-4-12 06:30
都说的不到点上
作者: avocadodo    时间: 2013-4-12 14:59
我是这么排除的:C/D/E错,因为句末两个V-ing形式不平行,无论介词用什么,应该是V-ing AND V-ing~
作者: Gero拓    时间: 2013-4-12 15:00
EMMALIULIU 发表于 2012-12-8 20:43
我突然想起来,manhattan里有说过,如果原句意思没有非改不可的理由,尽量忠于原句意思。既然原句是说overc ...

完全同意16楼..其他解释都有点照着答案倒退的意思 这里确实需要忠于原句。
作者: avocadodo    时间: 2013-4-12 16:10
yakev6 发表于 2012-12-1 22:21
个人感觉ACE中sometimes的位置不好BD 中sometimes是作为adv修饰overcompensating and growing : 有时候 ...

by 还是with 我也不太懂。。。但yakev6说的sometimes修饰谁导致的句意变化,我之前真是没注意到!谢谢=)
作者: bobotea    时间: 2013-5-21 08:41
I get it!
The overcompensation is a possible side effect rather than how the arm is replaced.
作者: bobotea    时间: 2013-5-21 08:43
http://www.beatthegmat.com/starfish-t117546.html
作者: bobotea    时间: 2013-5-21 08:50
In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that the lost arm is replaced sometimes NOT BY or sometimes WITHOUT the animal.
Eliminate C and E.

The correct answer is B.

Where a modifier is placed affects MEANING.
Always notice when a modifier such as SOMETIMES changes position in the answer choices.
In the OA, sometimes correctly modifies overcompensating and growing:
If one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING AND GROWING an extra one or two.

原句想说的是,有的时候海星会多长个腿(side-effect)而不是有的时候通过多长个腿的方式。差别在于,一个意思是不管长几条腿都会长,另一个意思是不一定会长腿。所以somemtimes应该修饰overcompensating而不是by the animal overcompensating。
作者: peby1223    时间: 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长出一只手臂来代替A,有时,这个动物(starfish)会过渡补偿,即额外长出一条手臂B来。
C选项意思:他们丢掉了一只手臂A,有时是通过过渡补偿并额外长出一只手臂的方法来长出一只代替手臂A的手臂

即原句是可能出来手臂A和手臂B两只手臂,C选项怎么算都是只有一只手臂A。

不知道我这样说能否理解!
作者: zneverland    时间: 2013-6-15 14:08
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

Bingo,我觉得你说得很对。开始我也错选了C。
overcompensating和growing用于介宾短语,我觉得是对于a strong regenerative的补充说明,即超强的再生能力有时表现为过渡补偿和长出多一只脚。
而C就错在逻辑关系混乱上。如果用by的介词短语,则其应修饰前面的quikly replace it.但是,从逻辑可知,并不是通过overcompensating and growing而很快长出脚,所以B错。
作者: DesmondWang    时间: 2013-7-11 00:19
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

非常clear!
作者: zhangdanqing    时间: 2013-8-17 07:22
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

说得太好啦!!!高端大气上档次
作者: mogu724    时间: 2013-8-24 12:55
cegret 发表于 2012-8-9 10:41
1.with和by的区别:(1) 做某事时通过什么方法或手段用by:do something by (doing) something。(2) 表示使 ...

前句是passive 后面应对应也是passive 怎么就用了with
难道with 是有passive的意思在里面?
作者: AresMa    时间: 2013-10-24 17:28
我觉得根本是从意思上解决问题。

要知道somtimes在compensating之前。所以后面半句我认为是表明一种特殊情况:即一些海星过度补偿而造成多长出一个或两个。

这样by就真的不合适(with表伴随且列举了特殊情况),而且C的问题也解决了,因为海星恢复arm需要的是by compensate,而不是by overcompensate, 多长一个到两个是overcompensate这个特殊情况的后果。growing是紧接着overcompensate的,所以从意思的连接上不应被逗号拆开。所以可以排除C
作者: flhuihui1001    时间: 2013-11-15 11:16
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

赞同!


作者: 千贺铃    时间: 2013-12-21 17:37
我觉得这里面by和with的互换很好解决。
by sth/sb (noun 、pronoun、名词性短语)或 by doing sth (表示通过某种途径)
但是绝对没有 by sb doing sth 这种表达。首先我没有在一个辞典里看到过这种奇怪的表达,其次设想这么一个用by sb doing的句子,你翻译一下,A通过让B(非A的第三者)做某事来让A实现。。。非常变扭,对吧?某人通过某个途径实现什么什么,很合理,这个途径的实施主体是主语自己,但是如果途径的实施主体是第三者,就非常奇怪了。第三,虽然本题中的 by the animal overcompensating 正好animal和it 同指starfish,但是animal这词放在by后头也非常多余,完全可以直接by overcompensating。而by overcompernsating 在楼上诸多位的分析种也说了,意思有误,即不可能是途径这个意思。
作者: 兰心寒    时间: 2013-12-23 20:47
蓝梦红林 发表于 2013-3-21 15:27
求解释题干部分 Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability,  ...

是starfish have
作者: dennis2k    时间: 2014-1-21 14:46
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

赞!这样说就明白了!
作者: uato    时间: 2014-2-1 21:17
我觉得还是从意思上面来说比较清楚。胖大星长出手臂,靠的不是overcompensating,所以by就不对了,而with表示伴随状态的side-effect。
作者: chenyu2436    时间: 2014-2-13 09:43
27楼高大上!!
作者: 远方的树    时间: 2014-5-1 15:53
bobotea 发表于 2013-5-21 08:50
In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that  ...

赞同,谢谢。。。
作者: fausttao    时间: 2014-7-10 07:32
In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that the lost arm is replaced sometimes NOT BY or sometimes WITHOUT the animal.
作者: 烂烂家的芸    时间: 2014-8-3 11:18
不是说在句子意思不明确的时候要忠于A选项的意思吗,这里说的B选项不是就和A选项岔开了吗??
作者: avawang    时间: 2014-8-14 01:17
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

赞!楼主正解!
作者: mmmmmignon    时间: 2015-1-21 13:51
这道题og上 没说by不可以 那就证明 by 和 with都说正确用法,要错就错在CDE搞乱了overcompensating和growing的逻辑关系。
本来题中想说通过animal compensating和 growing an extra两种方式来replace lost 的arm但是CDE没有体现出这是两种方式 。
作者: claire_hu    时间: 2015-2-4 13:21
不明白这里的starfish为什么是复数,查下来starfish的复数形式是starfishes啊,如果是单数,但这里的they都可以排除掉了。。。
作者: zhaokai09    时间: 2015-2-4 16:14
cegret 发表于 2012-8-9 10:41
1.with和by的区别:(1) 做某事时通过什么方法或手段用by:do something by (doing) something。(2) 表示使 ...

by + method
with + 具体工具, for example, write with a open
作者: zhaokai09    时间: 2015-2-4 16:22
the vital error in choice C is parallel, AND connects two action OVERCOMPENSATING and GROWING, so they should in same structure. Therefore, there are only choice A and C.
作者: ZJPt找到M    时间: 2015-5-22 18:43
27楼解释的很好,
个人觉得by/with;ving;平行之类的解释都很牵强,关键要从意思着手
作者: soonhow    时间: 2015-8-6 06:07
claire_hu 发表于 2015-2-4 13:21
不明白这里的starfish为什么是复数,查下来starfish的复数形式是starfishes啊,如果是单数,但这里的they都 ...

starfish单复数同行。题干中have没划线,已经表明了这里的starfish是复数
作者: Hailee    时间: 2015-9-5 10:21
replace by a new 手,而with后面接的是方法。
作者: karahuihui    时间: 2015-10-4 19:48
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

这个解释太牛逼了,一针见血,句子的逻辑意思是排除C选项的关键!
作者: audrey99    时间: 2015-10-20 18:38
bobotea 发表于 2013-5-21 08:50
In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that  ...

但是原句A的sometimes就是在by之前的呀,那按原句的意思岂不就应该是 有时通过这种方式吗
作者: audrey99    时间: 2015-10-20 18:46
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

为什么C只能算出一条手臂呢,句末没划线的部分已经说了one or two啊
作者: sandrahuang    时间: 2015-11-8 17:49
重新做这道题的时候又晕了。。。
翻论坛看到大家的讨论,我觉得并不完全是逻辑意思的错误,they quickly replace it, sometimes growing extra one and two,我觉得并没错,ing做状语补充说明前面的动作。错的是some times by the animal overcompensating 是夹心修饰,可以修饰前面的replace,也可以修饰后面的growing. 不知道这样考虑对不对。
作者: 医生吃鱼    时间: 2015-11-8 22:35
把C选项代入原句后如下:(WRONG)Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability,
and if they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating , growing an extra one or two.
这道题的c选项确实很坑人,坑就坑在你很难“准确地把c选项翻译成中文”,以此证明它的句意错误。我们不妨抛开中文含义,换成用英文思维。

我对C选项错误的判断依据是:其中“逗号+growing..."这个modifier(蓝色部分),修饰的是preceding clause(红色部分)

而根据常识,蓝色部分(多长一两只手)应该仅仅红色划线部分这个动作一起发生。因此蓝色部分红色划线部分应该用“and”连接。

换句话说,C选项错就错在growing前的那个逗号上。



作者: rorkey    时间: 2015-11-13 22:43
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

同意!               
作者: 琳二    时间: 2016-1-8 16:31
peby1223 发表于 2013-6-14 19:50
这道题我也错选了C,我觉得大家说得好乱,其实C选项是扭曲了句意
原句意思:如果丢掉一只手臂A,那么会另长 ...

同意!               
作者: 琳二    时间: 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天,终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说,如果starfish的一只手臂A lost,那么会很快被复原(因为他有超强的再生能力),但伴随着失掉的手臂A被复原,会出现过度补偿的后果,即在补偿了手臂A之后,多长出来一两只。而C选项则扭曲了文义,把过度补偿作为了复原手臂A的方法,而且是sometimes by这个方法,那么也就是说sometimes还有其他方法来复原。所以综上,应该选B。

自己的理解哈,不晓得大家看得懂不,欢迎拍砖,欢迎探讨
作者: Daisyliu1989    时间: 2016-1-11 07:36
我开始也选的C,后来才发现C确实不对。我个人觉得主要原因是,C选项那个overcomepensating 后面有个逗号,如果把逗号改成and,可能这道题就只能用by和with的用法来分析和判断了。我觉得overcompensating 和 growing都表示starfish的某种能力,所以这两个动词应该是并列,可以理解为平行结构。如果不用and,而用逗号的话,那这句话就会出现歧义。“....... ,V-ing....”这种形式,我们见过很多。V-ing 可以修饰前面主句的主语,也可以修饰前面主句的宾语,主要看哪个在逻辑上更通顺一些。如果修饰哪个都行,那么就会出现歧义。而对于这句话,主要的原因还是overcompensating 和growing 是并列的,所以才要用and来连接,而不能用逗号。
作者: tyzs    时间: 2016-2-4 17:06
说C去掉and就不遵从原文就排除掉其实很不靠谱啊,做过太多那种原文意思就不合理的题,都是直接改意思的。。不愧是难题啊。。我倒是觉得用夹心修饰还好选一点
作者: 花儿mm    时间: 2016-3-5 09:01
赞成#54和#58楼对于C错误的看法,就是在overcompensating 和 growing之间少了一个连词表示这两个并列,用With的独立主格做状语进行补充说明。至于A为什么不能用by overcompensating and growing呢,是因为这里的by overcompensating and growing是作为状语修饰replace it的,但是显然逻辑关系通过增生是不能使得这一个手臂长出来。所以不正确。

作者: mama_woo    时间: 2016-3-25 13:10
答案解析如下:(转载)

  (A)one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and

  【错误1】 代词指代:“it quickly replaces it”中前后两个“it”本意上的指代对象并不相同,前者本意上指代“starfish”,而后者本意上指代“arm”。GMAT考察的标准书面英语中,同类代词在句子中反复出现理应指代同物(人),否则指代不明。因此本选项中代词“it”指代不明。

  【错误2】 句子意思:“sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two”本意上想表达“有时通过这个动物(即海星)过度补偿并多长出一两个触角。”但“by”在语法中只能引导名词性结构,名词性结构不具有叙事的功能,因此这个结构只能被翻译为“通过过度补偿并多长出一两个触角的动物”,表述“通过”的方式落脚点,但句意的重心却落在了“动物”上,表意不佳。

  (B)one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and

  【正确】 “it”出现在主语位置,根据“平行指代优先”原则可以平行指代主谓结构“one arm is lost”中的主语“one arm”。“with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two”是“with”引导的独立主格(事实上如果去掉“with”选项仍然正确,但“with”在此处仅仅是独立主格的引导词,我们不讨论其是否冗余)。

  【大意】 海星,拥有4到8个触手,拥有很强的再生能力,且如果一只触手丢了,它会迅速被替代,有时这种动物还会过度补偿并多长出一两条触手。

  (C)they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,

  【错误1】 修饰成分:本选项中“growing an extra one or two”不再与“overcompensating”用“and”平行,本意上是要用“growing an extra one or two”伴随修饰非谓语动词“overcompensating”,但这种预期的修饰关系无法实现,因为“,growing an extra one or two”作为伴随状语,只能修饰主谓结构中的某个动词(包括谓语动词),而不能修饰主谓结构之外的状语 “by the animal overcompensating”中的动词。

  【错误1】 句子意思:见(A)中【错误2】。

  (D)they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,

  【错误1】 代词指代:“they lose one arm they are quickly replaced”中前后两个“they”本意上的指代对象并不相同,前者本意上指代“starfish”,而后者本意上指代“arms”(实际上无法指代,因为“arm”并为以复数形式在句中出现过)。GMAT考察的标准书面英语中,同类代词在句子中反复出现理应指代同物(人),否则指代不明。因此本选项中代词“they”指代不明。

  【错误1】 修饰成分:见(C)中【错误1】。

  (E)they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

  【错误】 修饰成分:见(C)中【错误1】。

  【最优解题思路推荐】

  本题的错误大多需要对比选项才能排除。

  (A)、(D)中的指代关系没有(B)明确,排除。

  (C)、(E)中的修饰关系没有(B)中的合理,排除。

  因此选择(B)
作者: vianvee    时间: 2016-7-21 12:12
看了上面的解释,我觉得有些回答太关注by和with了,在这题里我觉得by和with都解释得通啊,我选with的原因是照顾了句子结构的一致性。我们看一下这句话的结构Starfish, with........, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with..........

wish it helps
作者: yangfei    时间: 2016-7-26 12:43
千贺铃 发表于 2013-12-21 17:37
我觉得这里面by和with的互换很好解决。
by sth/sb (noun 、pronoun、名词性短语)或 by doing sth (表示 ...

赞同该说法。
从语义上来看,B选项中,with表伴随状态,即quickly replace后,有时候还会伴随with后面的事情出现,C选项中直接replace.. by,表示是通过by后面的方式完成replace。
从语法上看,C选项中,they quickly replaced it by the animal overcompensating...,the animal明显多余。
作者: 油闹家    时间: 2016-7-26 20:29
61楼解释的炒鸡清楚~~~
赞一个~~
作者: 油闹家    时间: 2016-7-26 21:04

这道题出现在了OG16上,看过了各种网站上各位牛牛们,前辈们,大神们的解答,现在结合OG总结一下~
同时向前辈们孜孜不倦的求真精神致敬!



98. Starfish,with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability,

andif one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensatingand growing an extra one or two.

先弄清楚作者的意图:Starfish (plural) have a certain ability: if they lose anarm, another one grows in its place. In fact, sometimes the animalovercompensates for the loss by growing extra arms. Note that the last idea(the animal overcompensates) is not an explanation of how the arm is replaced,but rather a side note about what sometimes happens along with the replacementof the arm.

(A).one arm is lost it quickly replaces it,sometimes by the animal overcompensating  and
  • 1.itquickly replaces it ,it在这里肯定指的是“胖大星”,但是由于前面出现了have,所以这里的胖大星应该用they指代。
    2.by在这里有解释的意味,表示前面的replace是通过 overcompensating来实现的,但是其它们之间的关系是side effect的关系,即因为“过度补偿”而产生了多余的触角是一种“side effect副作用。”
    3.OG解释“if X…… (then) Y”这种句式的if从句和主句必须保持主被动一致。ifone arm is lost是被动,而itquickly replaces it是主动形式
  • (B).one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, withthe animal sometimes overcompensating  and
  • 正确
  • (C).they lose one arm they quickly replace it,sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
  • 1.by在这里有解释的意味,表示前面的replace是通过 overcompensating来实现的,但是其它们之间的关系是side effect的关系,即因为“过度补偿”而产生了多余的触角是一种“side effect副作用。”
    2.注意在overcompensating之后出现了“,”, 因此growing an extra one or two”不再与“overcompensating”平行,本意上是要用“growing an extra one or two”伴随修饰非谓语动词“overcompensating”,但这种预期的修饰关系无法实现,因为“,growing an extra one or two”作为伴随状语,只能修饰主谓结构中的某个动词(包括谓语动词),而不能修饰主谓结构之外的状语 “by the animalovercompensating”中的动词。

    (D)they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes  overcompensating,
    1. “ifX……(then) Y”这种句式的if从句和主句必须保持主被动一致。ifthey lose one arm是主动,而theyare quickly replaced是被动形式。
    2. 注意在overcompensating之后出现了“,”, 因此growing an extra one or two”不再与“overcompensating”平行,本意上是要用“growing an extra one or two”伴随修饰非谓语动词“overcompensating”,但这种预期的修饰关系无法实现,因为“,growing an extra one or two”作为伴随状语,只能修饰主谓结构中的某个动词(包括谓语动词),而不能修饰主谓结构之外的状语 “by the animalovercompensating”中的动词。

    (E)they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,
    1. 注意在overcompensating之后出现了“,”, 因此growing an extra one or two”不再与“overcompensating”平行,本意上是要用“growing an extra one or two”伴随修饰非谓语动词“overcompensating”,但这种预期的修饰关系无法实现,因为“,growing an extra one or two”作为伴随状语,只能修饰主谓结构中的某个动词(包括谓语动词),而不能修饰主谓结构之外的状语 “by the animalovercompensating”中的动词。
    2. “ifX……(then) Y”这种句式的if从句和主句必须保持主被动一致。theylose one arm是主动,而itis quickly replaced是被动形式。








作者: Evangeline璇    时间: 2016-8-13 17:33
同意楼上对C的解释
考试中对于with by的区别挺难马上反应出来 通过两者修饰关系应该会好排除很多
作者: MS06    时间: 2016-8-19 23:00
赞同61和65楼的答案,其实Ron有一节课上也说过的:Comma+ing must DESCRIBE the main action in some way,然而这里严格意义上不是svo结构确实没有。
作者: bbc94    时间: 2016-11-23 04:19
但是我还是不是很明白“if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it,” 这是个完整的句子吗? 为什么不用逗号隔开?“if one arm is lostit quickly replaces it”
作者: 猪小王    时间: 2017-1-6 06:05
C有几处ambiguous的地方,they 和 one arm的搭配,感觉这么多starfish就丢了一只arm。sometimes位置不好,感觉sometimes by X, sometimes NOT by X的意思。compensating,growing...中间的comma让growing到底修饰什么意思不明确。最后,好像X is replaced by Y这种passive voice用by比较多,而Mary replaces X with Y这种active voice用with比较多。


B选项里面,如果with引导的是独立主格结构,那说的通:说明这句子根本不是Mary replaces X with Y这种结构,而是这个独立主格在告诉我们额外的results/consequences。


从gmatclub上看到一个expert说的话。说这道题目是难题。This is one characteristic of themore difficult SC questions: the OA is far from ideal, but it's better than theother four answers, each of which is wrong for a clear and discernible reason.



作者: emmahiggins09    时间: 2017-1-6 08:39
猪小王 发表于 2017-1-6 06:05
第一轮通过pronouns ONE vs. It以及IF X Y (X Y结构要consistent),排除A/D/E.

B vs. C的区别在使用介词w ...

嗯,我的理解和层住理解的不太一样。

首先要看sometimes 这个词的位置发生了变化,B中sometimes 修饰右面的overcompensating and growing... 这个是句子的本意, 也就是说句子里要强调的不是有时候是动物补回了触角,而是动物有时候通过某种方式补回了触角,不造说明白了没,好晕

而C中 sometimes 在 the animal 之前修饰的就是动物,意思就变成有时候动物会补回触角(they replace it sometimes by the animal?? 言外之意就是有时候动物不回补回触角, 这是nonsense 的,动物在任何情况下都会补回触角的)

然后with-modifier 和 by-modifier,层主的理解和我的也不太一样(也可能我没有理解层主的意思,如果是这样的话,请层主原谅我的语文水平

在英语中,with-modifier 应该是用来强调HOW 而 by-modifier 应该是用来是强调 WHAT and WHO

欢迎大家来讨论


作者: 猪小王    时间: 2017-1-7 11:08
emmahiggins09 发表于 2017-1-6 08:39
嗯,我的理解和层住理解的不太一样。

首先要看sometimes 这个词的位置发生了变化,B中sometimes 修饰右 ...

我修改了之前的解释,希望能说明白。sometimes究竟该修饰noun还是preposition,这点我和你理解一样。with or by我觉得不能直接破题。AND可以破题,因为C中growing这个modifier让句子意思变了。
作者: Barron1234    时间: 2017-2-8 22:19
我是从意思的角度理解的:1)何为replace,一个换一个叫replace,数量上不对等谈不上replace;2)所以原文想表达的意思是,一个arm断了会replace一个,但是呢sometimes由于他的overcompensating,甚至还会多长出一、两个arm
B选项one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two;(就是以上粗体的意思)
C选项they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,growing an extra one or two(意思掉了一个arm会replace,这种replace的方式有时是通过overcompensating的“意思是莫非有时还通过其他方式?”,会多长一个或两个,既然多长怎么还叫replace?)

浅薄见解,欢迎拍砖!
作者: 猪小王    时间: 2017-3-3 12:25
yakev6 发表于 2012-12-1 22:21
个人感觉ACE中sometimes的位置不好BD 中sometimes是作为adv修饰overcompensating and growing : 有时候 ...

同意!               
作者: GXN233    时间: 2017-5-7 15:16
lalapiao 发表于 2012-12-3 17:08
[quote]个人觉得BY和WITH在这里用法都正确,GMAT论坛上说BY不适合用在主动句中,这跟WITH不适合用在被动句 ...

我觉得c里面the animal overcompensating , growing an extra one or two可以理解为,后面的growing 表示overcompensating的结果
作者: 778807    时间: 2017-7-10 14:03
http://www.beatthegmat.com/starfish-t117546.html

Please please underline the relevant portion of the sentence when you post. To do so, highlight the portion and click the "u" symbol above the text box.

Think about the story: Starfish (plural) have a certain ability: if they lose an arm, another one grows in its place. In fact, sometimes the animal overcompensates for the loss by growing extra arms. Note that the last idea (the animal overcompensates) is not an explanation of how the arm is replaced, but rather a side note about what sometimes happens along with the replacement of the arm.

Now that we have a clear idea of the intended meaning, let's go through the choices.

A) "it replaces it" is not right since starfish is used in the plural here (we know because of the plural verb "have" earlier). In addition, it's not ideal to link the two ideas with "by" as though the animal replaces the arm by overcompensating. As noted above, the overcompensation is a possible side effect rather than how the arm is replaced.

B) Passive voice ("one arm is lost" and "one arm is replaced" are both passive). This doesn't automatically make a sentence wrong, but raises a flag. Otherwise, I don't have any problem with B

C) Like A, this answer links the ideas with "by" as though the starfish replaces its arm by overcompensating. This doesn't fit the intended story.

D)"they are quickly replaced" is incorrect since "they" cannot refer to the singular arm that was lost.

E) See Additional notes below.

Additional notes:
(1) In addition, unlike A and B, which tell us "with/by the animal overcompensating and growing extra arms", C through E tell us "with/by the animal overcompensating, growing extra arms". The linkage in A and B is more appropriate since these actions occur in sequence. The animal indeed overcompensates and grows extra arms. This can be used to eliminate C, D and E

(2) A, D and E break the flow of the sentence by having a mismatch of active and passive voice in the condition and consequence. A is passive->active (if one arm is lost it replaces it) while D and E are active->passive (if they lose one arm it is quickly replaced). Ideally, both clauses would be active ("if they lose one arm they quickly replace it" as in C). The next best option is to have two passive options ("if one arm is lost it is quickly replaced"). This can be used to eliminate A, D, and E
作者: 小题目叔叔    时间: 2017-7-22 09:45
我也选了c,但是感觉这题其实是不是在考伴随的用法,因为曼哈顿语法有说过不要连着用两个长修饰词组来修饰一个主句?b把两个ing用and连起来就变成一个修饰从句了?
作者: 黄苏打    时间: 2017-9-27 11:46
琳二 发表于 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天,终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说,如果starfish的一只手臂A lost,那 ...

同意!               
作者: einfucs    时间: 2017-11-29 21:25
Mark一下!               
作者: 程诗琦    时间: 2018-1-21 09:58
请问一下这题为什么可以用被动语态呀?我的想法是,被动语态省略了动作的合理发出者,和前面的句子就没有联系了,求各位NN解答!谢谢啦!
作者: Jinnjenny23    时间: 2018-1-27 03:00
关于by和with, 赞同前面#34层主的看法,下面摘自Ron的关于这类结构的解释

In the construction "Prepostion + Noun + Verb-ing"
1. If the “VERB-ing” is the intended object of the preposition, then this construction is incorrect.
e.g.
There is no evidence of my brother stealing the candy.
- This is incorrect: we want evidence of his STEALING, not “evidence of my brother”

2. If the focus of the construction is the ACTION, then you must use the POSSESIVE form for the noun/pronoun preceding the “-ing” participle.
e.g.
There is no evidence of my brother’s stealing the candy. – Correct
选项A,C中的by the animal overcompensating, 实际上overcompensating才是by的object,所以这个结构不正确。

但B,D,E中的with the animal overcompensating不也是上面的结构,为什么正确?下面是摘自Ron对with用法的解释:
1. ‘With’ can be used with NOUN or NOUN equivalent
2. 'With' can be  used with an __ING form to represent circumstances that are contemporaneous with the action described in the main clause. PS. Other prepositions can only be used with NOUN or NOUN equivalent.

The clearest example of this special usage is in the non-underlined part of og12 problem 29:
OG Example – OG12 29
The end of the eighteenth century saw the emergence of prize-stock breeding, with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest whenever they were put on show.

with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest

This usage directly violates the principles for the use of other prepositions -- specifically, "with + noun + VERBing" is allowed even though the VERBing, rather than the noun, is the intended object of "with". (i.e., in the sentence above, prize-stock breeding was not "with bulls and cows" -- it was specifically with prizes awarded to these animals.)

This is veeeerrry interesting, since identical constructions with other prepositions are definitely incorrect. for instance, I've never heard of people biting dogs is incorrect, because the intended object of the preposition is the action (the biting) rather than the noun ("people"); instead, one could write i've never heard that people have bitten dogs.

A similar usage can be found in og12 #23, with a past participle rather than an ING form ("with its weight concentrated...")
OG Example: OG12 23
In a previous design, the weight of the discus used in track competition is concentrated in a metal center-but now it is lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting in longer throws.

Correct Answer
(C) Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in track competition is now

So, it is confirmed: "with" has its own special set of rules, independent of (and contradictory to) the rules for other prepositions.

希望能给大家的理解带来帮助
作者: 李青鱼    时间: 2018-1-29 17:46
growing 作为participle modifier修饰,有两种,一种是作为前面句子的结果发生,一种是伴随主句的谓语动作发生。但是不管是哪一种,都是不对的。把中间结构一去就好理解了,they replace it, growing extra one or two。长出额外的一个或两个都是有时发生的,而不是replace的结果,或是伴随动作。growing extra
作者: summer163    时间: 2018-2-6 15:58
琳二 发表于 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天,终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说,如果starfish的一只手臂A lost,那 ...

同意!               
作者: Ivy蓝蓝蓝蓝    时间: 2018-3-16 23:27
Jinnjenny23 发表于 2018-1-27 03:00
关于by和with, 赞同前面#34层主的看法,下面摘自Ron的关于这类结构的解释

In the construction "Prepostio ...

感谢感谢!明白了hhh
作者: Ivy蓝蓝蓝蓝    时间: 2018-3-16 23:41
油闹家 发表于 2016-7-26 21:04
这道题出现在了OG16上,看过了各种网站上各位牛牛们,前辈们,大神们的解答,现在结合OG总结一下~同时向前 ...

太感谢了!
作者: kakakaka13579    时间: 2018-7-8 11:54
B:手臂丢失了会很快被替代,替代时,有时候会有过度补偿长出额外手臂的情况
C:他们丢了手臂会很快替换手臂,长出额外的一两只手,其中有时候是通过过度补偿的方法
作者: Tinori    时间: 2018-7-19 22:49
Jinnjenny23 发表于 2018-1-27 03:00
关于by和with, 赞同前面#34层主的看法,下面摘自Ron的关于这类结构的解释

In the construction "Prepostio ...

Mark一下!               
作者: 我一只土拨鼠    时间: 2018-7-23 14:14
感谢分享!               
作者: tessl    时间: 2018-11-10 06:58
错选c之后,上论坛看解析。
B with之后应当是with引导的独立主格结构,主语加上修饰语,与主句形成松散的逻辑关系。
c sometimes后面的句子结构很混乱
作者: jadaliu    时间: 2019-4-12 00:42
请问E为什么不可以呢?
作者: 大熊仔    时间: 2019-4-19 21:13
感谢分享!               
作者: 斯洛    时间: 2019-5-22 14:35
李青鱼 发表于 2018-1-29 17:46
growing 作为participle modifier修饰,有两种,一种是作为前面句子的结果发生,一种是伴随主句的谓语动作 ...

正解
作者: Charlotte_xas    时间: 2019-6-4 16:59
我理解这里overcompensating和grwoing是并列关系:
如果用逗号连接的话,growing...会变成overcompensating的modifier,growing...表示overcompensating的结果。也就是只有overcompensate一种方法来replace
如果用and连接的话表示有两种不同的方法来replace(overcompensating或者growing)
作者: Heron    时间: 2019-6-9 17:37
我觉得C还有一个错误点是,海星不是自己replace手臂的,不是海星拿着一条手臂给自己安手臂,而应该是是手臂断了的那里自己恢复的,所以这个replace的主语应该是手臂自己,不是海星。但是还有一个问题,可以把and和逗号当成一个排除点吗
作者: AMBER513    时间: 2019-10-11 08:08
主谓一致的话CDE都要排除的
作者: 典座    时间: 2020-9-8 23:43
我记得Ron在Manhattan里说过,growing的句子是修饰前面的动词,而如果前面是overcompensating的话,就变成了一个verb-ing句子修饰另一个verb-ing句子,这样在gmat里是不允许的。这样就直接排除了BCD。
作者: Crustmaster    时间: 2021-8-25 11:08
琳二 发表于 2016-1-8 16:39
理解了半天,终于明白了B和C的区别。还是应该从理解文义来下手。B是说,如果starfish的一只手臂A lost,那 ...

同意!               
作者: Crustmaster    时间: 2021-8-25 11:52
观点总结于manhattan SC书籍 & RON的发言:
any “comma -ing” structures are adverbial modifiers.
(修饰latest action or the whole clause,不修饰plain noun。 To express the meaning of purpose, result or simultaneous action of 被修饰成分)


观点1:有时comma -ing放在句首时看起来在修饰它所adherent的句子or短语的主语,但其实修饰的是整个句子。时刻记住comma -ing不能修饰plain noun,不可能做定语。

(RIGHT,exhausted修饰的是主句的整个信息)Exhausted by her work, she bought an expensive ice-cream.
(WRONG,exhausted如果可以作定语修饰she的话,那么这句话就是对的,但是很遗憾GMAT不这样认为。Exhausted只能是修饰后面的整个句子,而这样则illogical,所以这个句子是错误的)Exhausted by her work, she has a red hair.

观点2:(From Ron,搜索T945,在manhattan网站可以看到):'comma _ing' modifies the closest action. e.g( both of these sentences work in the same way): ①A drunk driver drove his car into a storefront, causing several hundred thousand dollars' worth of damages. ②A verdict is due today in the trial of a drunk driver who drove his car into a storefront, causing several hundred thousand dollars' worth of damages.

(PS: when modifiers modify actions, they just modify the closest action, regardless of whether that action is actually a verb. e.g.: ①I made weird expressions with my mouth and fingers, scaring the babies. ②My sister saw me making weird expressions with my mouth and fingers, scaring the babies. both of these sentences are ok, and both of them work in exactly the same way. the fact that ""making"" isn't grammatically a verb doesn't make any difference )

作者: coco700+    时间: 2021-9-5 09:34
个人感觉是因为C选择 ,sometimes by the animal overcompensating, 这个结构构成插入语,那么插入语向前修饰的是it,即被替换掉的手臂,显然是不合理的,这个overcompensating和growing应该是并列修饰replace的方式,所以肯定要放在一起。
作者: 窝窝wooo    时间: 2021-11-15 08:43
AresMa 发表于 2013-10-24 17:28
我觉得根本是从意思上解决问题。

要知道somtimes在compensating之前。所以后面半句我认为是表明一种特殊情 ...

同意!               




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