@help & baby姐~~~og sc 62 一点小菜的见解，求共鸣~~~特别求baby姐啊，好久米有见到baby姐啦我~~ - ChaseDream

try to do (seek to accomplish) vs. try doing (experiment with)
摘自manhattan 5th，貌似本句中，如果用try doing 挺ridiculous的。bob觉得呢？

-- by 会员 yakev6 (2012/7/17 17:14:11)

TRY

RIGHT: They WILL TRY TO BUILD a company. (= intent or purpose)
………………………………………………
SUSPECT: We TRIED BREAKING the door down. (= experiment)
………………………………………………
WRONG: They WILL TRY AND BUILD a company.
They WILL TRY THAT THEY BUILD a company.

-- by 会员 yakev6 (2012/7/17 17:16:52)

我已经跟不上楼主的思路了。。。。。

-- by 会员 jeffery2541 (2012/7/17 17:40:04)

我已经跟不上楼主的思路了。。。。。

-- by 会员 jeffery2541 (2012/7/17 17:40:04)

不要这样嘛小哥~~~~对了，我有og12 阅读的pdf ，我平时打印就用那个，打出来和og的书一样，你还要吗，要我就发给你~~

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:48:34)

When Congress reconvenes, some newly elected members from rural states will try and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed to grow and to encourage more aggressive sales of United States farm products overseas.
(A) and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed ti to grow and to encourage
(B) and establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain able to be grown by farmers and encouraging
(C) establishing tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are allowed to grow and to encourage
(D) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain capable of being grown by farmers and encouraging
(E) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain farmers will be allowed to grow and to encourage

这题选E，小菜知道，但小菜有个问题一直不明白，求各位指点，问题如下：

题中的 try，若不考虑和下面的encourage平行，try and 和try doing 这两种形式是否在语义上说的通？？？

第一部分，对于try and establish：

小菜自己觉得不行，举个例子吧：

i eat and drink 我边吃边喝 ~ 这个and应该表示“同时进行”，逻辑上可以成立
open the door and sit down ~这个and应该表示“一先一后的逻辑顺序平行”，即先进门，然后坐下，逻辑上也成立~

那来看 sb try and establish restrictions
这个东东肯定不可能是边“尝试”，边“发布”，所以第一种说不通~
第二种呢，sb先“尝试”，然后“发表” ，语义上显然不同，因为try这个词是：有方向性的词，趋向性的感觉~单独的try，谁知道你在try什么？

所以try and establish不对~
所以这个时候可能就会去想try to establish restriction（设法发表规则），显然这个在语义上没有错误，还能把try和establish很好地连接起来，所以：要在establish前面加to~~

所以我认为，加to不单单是说：为了平行而平行，而是根据语义，然后观察，然后根据语义恰好是两个并列的意思，然后发现to do..and to do用作平行还不赖，然后才对的~

不知道大家同意我这种说法吗？

--------------------------------------------------------------------分割线----------------------------------------------------------------------

第二部分，还有关于这里的try to do & try doing~~

因为在这题中，“when........, elected members will .......” 这是一个时间点上的事情，也就是说“当他们重新集合后，the next thing they need to do” 就是后面will要表达的东西了~~~
小菜记得baby姐说过：

began studying 表目的 ultimate goal.
began to study 表“this is what we are going to do” (有点动作的感觉)
所以，对于此题，在先不考虑平行的时候，try to do 也应该是最好的选择~~~
（不知道baby姐这点是否同意哈~）

（ps：to baby姐：起初我一直以为try to do 和 try doing是比较特殊的固定搭配，因为从中文感觉不大对劲，感觉应该不会适用您的那个：began studying & began to study~
~但后来想了想baby姐的例子，觉得还是按上面所说的解释才对，而不是简单的用中文翻译来比较~~）

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:04:09)

我觉得你说的没错啊~~
至于began doing，我想强调的是ULTIMATE goal，注意时间词。began to do，是IMMEDIATE action. 结合那个数学课的例子，相信你能理解。或者你把begin doing理解为进入一个大的project，一个很大的project有个ultimate goal. 见下。

还有个简单的理解方法，你把v-ing form (gerund)理解成名词，替换。
这么验证一下，就知道该用ing form还是to do了。
甭管什么动词，ing form vs. to do 的法则都是一样的，因为这属于meaning范畴。

拿到具体的句子的时候，你可以理解句子之后，来根据句意选类似的名词。比如这题，TEST：
... will try the establishment of the regulation
... will try the implementation of the regulation
发现这显然不是作者要表达的意思——作者要表达的意思不是try sth. （你甚至可以吧try sth.替换成try the suit, try the cake来体会意思）
所以就得用try to do.

句子：
Although various eighteenth-and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in NativeAmerican poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their ownworks, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriouslybegan studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
TEST:
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the project on traditional Native American poetry
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the investigation on traditional Native American poetry

看吧，这里began sth.完全表达了作者的意思。所以就该用began studying.

再来个，比如说他戒烟了，He stopped smoking.
TEST: He stopped his habit. He stopped his routine.
对吧？
比如说他停下来休息：He stopped to take a rest.
TEST: He stopped his rest. He stopped his break.
这表达的意思和原句相反，所以这里肯定不是"stop taking a rest"

When Congress reconvenes, some newly elected members from rural states will try and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed to grow and to encourage more aggressive sales of United States farm products overseas.
(A) and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed ti to grow and to encourage
(B) and establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain able to be grown by farmers and encouraging
(C) establishing tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are allowed to grow and to encourage
(D) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain capable of being grown by farmers and encouraging
(E) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain farmers will be allowed to grow and to encourage

这题选E，小菜知道，但小菜有个问题一直不明白，求各位指点，问题如下：

题中的 try，若不考虑和下面的encourage平行，try and 和try doing 这两种形式是否在语义上说的通？？？

第一部分，对于try and establish：

小菜自己觉得不行，举个例子吧：

i eat and drink 我边吃边喝 ~ 这个and应该表示“同时进行”，逻辑上可以成立
open the door and sit down ~这个and应该表示“一先一后的逻辑顺序平行”，即先进门，然后坐下，逻辑上也成立~

那来看 sb try and establish restrictions
这个东东肯定不可能是边“尝试”，边“发布”，所以第一种说不通~
第二种呢，sb先“尝试”，然后“发表” ，语义上显然不同，因为try这个词是：有方向性的词，趋向性的感觉~单独的try，谁知道你在try什么？

所以try and establish不对~
所以这个时候可能就会去想try to establish restriction（设法发表规则），显然这个在语义上没有错误，还能把try和establish很好地连接起来，所以：要在establish前面加to~~

所以我认为，加to不单单是说：为了平行而平行，而是根据语义，然后观察，然后根据语义恰好是两个并列的意思，然后发现to do..and to do用作平行还不赖，然后才对的~

不知道大家同意我这种说法吗？

--------------------------------------------------------------------分割线----------------------------------------------------------------------

第二部分，还有关于这里的try to do & try doing~~

因为在这题中，“when........, elected members will .......” 这是一个时间点上的事情，也就是说“当他们重新集合后，the next thing they need to do” 就是后面will要表达的东西了~~~
小菜记得baby姐说过：

began studying 表目的 ultimate goal.
began to study 表“this is what we are going to do” (有点动作的感觉)
所以，对于此题，在先不考虑平行的时候，try to do 也应该是最好的选择~~~
（不知道baby姐这点是否同意哈~）

（ps：to baby姐：起初我一直以为try to do 和 try doing是比较特殊的固定搭配，因为从中文感觉不大对劲，感觉应该不会适用您的那个：began studying & began to study~
~但后来想了想baby姐的例子，觉得还是按上面所说的解释才对，而不是简单的用中文翻译来比较~~）

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:04:09)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/7/18 2:40:09)

我已经跟不上楼主的思路了。。。。。

-- by 会员 jeffery2541 (2012/7/17 17:40:04)

不要这样嘛小哥~~~~对了，我有og12 阅读的pdf ，我平时打印就用那个，打出来和og的书一样，你还要吗，要我就发给你~~

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:48:34)

我觉得你说的没错啊~~
至于began doing，我想强调的是ULTIMATE goal，注意时间词。began to do，是IMMEDIATE action. 结合那个数学课的例子，相信你能理解。或者你把begin doing理解为进入一个大的project，一个很大的project有个ultimate goal. 见下。

还有个简单的理解方法，你把v-ing form (gerund)理解成名词，替换。
这么验证一下，就知道该用ing form还是to do了。
甭管什么动词，ing form vs. to do 的法则都是一样的，因为这属于meaning范畴。

拿到具体的句子的时候，你可以理解句子之后，来根据句意选类似的名词。比如这题，TEST：
... will try the establishment of the regulation
... will try the implementation of the regulation
发现这显然不是作者要表达的意思——作者要表达的意思不是try sth. （你甚至可以吧try sth.替换成try the suit, try the cake来体会意思）
所以就得用try to do.

句子：
Although various eighteenth-and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in NativeAmerican poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their ownworks, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriouslybegan studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
TEST:
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the project on traditional Native American poetry
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the investigation on traditional Native American poetry

看吧，这里began sth.完全表达了作者的意思。所以就该用began studying.

再来个，比如说他戒烟了，He stopped smoking.
TEST: He stopped his habit. He stopped his routine.
对吧？
比如说他停下来休息：He stopped to take a rest.
TEST: He stopped his rest. He stopped his break.
这表达的意思和原句相反，所以这里肯定不是"stop taking a rest"

When Congress reconvenes, some newly elected members from rural states will try and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed to grow and to encourage more aggressive sales of United States farm products overseas.
(A) and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed ti to grow and to encourage
(B) and establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain able to be grown by farmers and encouraging
(C) establishing tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are allowed to grow and to encourage
(D) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain capable of being grown by farmers and encouraging
(E) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain farmers will be allowed to grow and to encourage

这题选E，小菜知道，但小菜有个问题一直不明白，求各位指点，问题如下：

题中的 try，若不考虑和下面的encourage平行，try and 和try doing 这两种形式是否在语义上说的通？？？

第一部分，对于try and establish：

小菜自己觉得不行，举个例子吧：

i eat and drink 我边吃边喝 ~ 这个and应该表示“同时进行”，逻辑上可以成立
open the door and sit down ~这个and应该表示“一先一后的逻辑顺序平行”，即先进门，然后坐下，逻辑上也成立~

那来看 sb try and establish restrictions
这个东东肯定不可能是边“尝试”，边“发布”，所以第一种说不通~
第二种呢，sb先“尝试”，然后“发表” ，语义上显然不同，因为try这个词是：有方向性的词，趋向性的感觉~单独的try，谁知道你在try什么？

所以try and establish不对~
所以这个时候可能就会去想try to establish restriction（设法发表规则），显然这个在语义上没有错误，还能把try和establish很好地连接起来，所以：要在establish前面加to~~

所以我认为，加to不单单是说：为了平行而平行，而是根据语义，然后观察，然后根据语义恰好是两个并列的意思，然后发现to do..and to do用作平行还不赖，然后才对的~

不知道大家同意我这种说法吗？

--------------------------------------------------------------------分割线----------------------------------------------------------------------

第二部分，还有关于这里的try to do & try doing~~

因为在这题中，“when........, elected members will .......” 这是一个时间点上的事情，也就是说“当他们重新集合后，the next thing they need to do” 就是后面will要表达的东西了~~~
小菜记得baby姐说过：

began studying 表目的 ultimate goal.
began to study 表“this is what we are going to do” (有点动作的感觉)
所以，对于此题，在先不考虑平行的时候，try to do 也应该是最好的选择~~~
（不知道baby姐这点是否同意哈~）

（ps：to baby姐：起初我一直以为try to do 和 try doing是比较特殊的固定搭配，因为从中文感觉不大对劲，感觉应该不会适用您的那个：began studying & began to study~
~但后来想了想baby姐的例子，觉得还是按上面所说的解释才对，而不是简单的用中文翻译来比较~~）

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:04:09)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/7/18 2:40:09)

我觉得你说的没错啊~~
至于began doing，我想强调的是ULTIMATE goal，注意时间词。began to do，是IMMEDIATE action. 结合那个数学课的例子，相信你能理解。或者你把begin doing理解为进入一个大的project，一个很大的project有个ultimate goal. 见下。

还有个简单的理解方法，你把v-ing form (gerund)理解成名词，替换。
这么验证一下，就知道该用ing form还是to do了。
甭管什么动词，ing form vs. to do 的法则都是一样的，因为这属于meaning范畴。

拿到具体的句子的时候，你可以理解句子之后，来根据句意选类似的名词。比如这题，TEST：
... will try the establishment of the regulation
... will try the implementation of the regulation
发现这显然不是作者要表达的意思——作者要表达的意思不是try sth. （你甚至可以吧try sth.替换成try the suit, try the cake来体会意思）
所以就得用try to do.

句子：
Although various eighteenth-and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in NativeAmerican poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their ownworks, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriouslybegan studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
TEST:
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the project on traditional Native American poetry
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the investigation on traditional Native American poetry

看吧，这里began sth.完全表达了作者的意思。所以就该用began studying.

再来个，比如说他戒烟了，He stopped smoking.
TEST: He stopped his habit. He stopped his routine.
对吧？
比如说他停下来休息：He stopped to take a rest.
TEST: He stopped his rest. He stopped his break.
这表达的意思和原句相反，所以这里肯定不是"stop taking a rest"

When Congress reconvenes, some newly elected members from rural states will try and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed to grow and to encourage more aggressive sales of United States farm products overseas.
(A) and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed ti to grow and to encourage
(B) and establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain able to be grown by farmers and encouraging
(C) establishing tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are allowed to grow and to encourage
(D) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain capable of being grown by farmers and encouraging
(E) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain farmers will be allowed to grow and to encourage

这题选E，小菜知道，但小菜有个问题一直不明白，求各位指点，问题如下：

题中的 try，若不考虑和下面的encourage平行，try and 和try doing 这两种形式是否在语义上说的通？？？

第一部分，对于try and establish：

小菜自己觉得不行，举个例子吧：

i eat and drink 我边吃边喝 ~ 这个and应该表示“同时进行”，逻辑上可以成立
open the door and sit down ~这个and应该表示“一先一后的逻辑顺序平行”，即先进门，然后坐下，逻辑上也成立~

那来看 sb try and establish restrictions
这个东东肯定不可能是边“尝试”，边“发布”，所以第一种说不通~
第二种呢，sb先“尝试”，然后“发表” ，语义上显然不同，因为try这个词是：有方向性的词，趋向性的感觉~单独的try，谁知道你在try什么？

所以try and establish不对~
所以这个时候可能就会去想try to establish restriction（设法发表规则），显然这个在语义上没有错误，还能把try和establish很好地连接起来，所以：要在establish前面加to~~

所以我认为，加to不单单是说：为了平行而平行，而是根据语义，然后观察，然后根据语义恰好是两个并列的意思，然后发现to do..and to do用作平行还不赖，然后才对的~

不知道大家同意我这种说法吗？

--------------------------------------------------------------------分割线----------------------------------------------------------------------

第二部分，还有关于这里的try to do & try doing~~

因为在这题中，“when........, elected members will .......” 这是一个时间点上的事情，也就是说“当他们重新集合后，the next thing they need to do” 就是后面will要表达的东西了~~~
小菜记得baby姐说过：

began studying 表目的 ultimate goal.
began to study 表“this is what we are going to do” (有点动作的感觉)
所以，对于此题，在先不考虑平行的时候，try to do 也应该是最好的选择~~~
（不知道baby姐这点是否同意哈~）

（ps：to baby姐：起初我一直以为try to do 和 try doing是比较特殊的固定搭配，因为从中文感觉不大对劲，感觉应该不会适用您的那个：began studying & began to study~
~但后来想了想baby姐的例子，觉得还是按上面所说的解释才对，而不是简单的用中文翻译来比较~~）

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:04:09)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/7/18 2:40:09)

to abjure:
law + doing 表持续性效用，毕竟法律不是只用一次~
而如果用：
law+ to do就表示目的了，对于这题用to do，重心就变了，变成了require devices成了目的，而真正的目的是：protect bababa~~

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/31 20:12:02)

to abjure:
law + doing 表持续性效用，毕竟法律不是只用一次~
而如果用：
law+ to do就表示目的了，对于这题用to do，重心就变了，变成了require devices成了目的，而真正的目的是：protect bababa~~

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/31 20:12:02)

我觉得你说的没错啊~~
至于began doing，我想强调的是ULTIMATE goal，注意时间词。began to do，是IMMEDIATE action. 结合那个数学课的例子，相信你能理解。或者你把begin doing理解为进入一个大的project，一个很大的project有个ultimate goal. 见下。

还有个简单的理解方法，你把v-ing form (gerund)理解成名词，替换。
这么验证一下，就知道该用ing form还是to do了。
甭管什么动词，ing form vs. to do 的法则都是一样的，因为这属于meaning范畴。

拿到具体的句子的时候，你可以理解句子之后，来根据句意选类似的名词。比如这题，TEST：
... will try the establishment of the regulation
... will try the implementation of the regulation
发现这显然不是作者要表达的意思——作者要表达的意思不是try sth. （你甚至可以吧try sth.替换成try the suit, try the cake来体会意思）
所以就得用try to do.

句子：
Although various eighteenth-and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in NativeAmerican poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their ownworks, it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriouslybegan studying traditional Native American poetry in native languages.
TEST:
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the project on traditional Native American poetry
.... it was not until 1900 that they seriously began the investigation on traditional Native American poetry

看吧，这里began sth.完全表达了作者的意思。所以就该用began studying.

再来个，比如说他戒烟了，He stopped smoking.
TEST: He stopped his habit. He stopped his routine.
对吧？
比如说他停下来休息：He stopped to take a rest.
TEST: He stopped his rest. He stopped his break.
这表达的意思和原句相反，所以这里肯定不是"stop taking a rest"

When Congress reconvenes, some newly elected members from rural states will try and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed to grow and to encourage more aggressive sales of United States farm products overseas.
(A) and establish tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are to be allowed ti to grow and to encourage
(B) and establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain able to be grown by farmers and encouraging
(C) establishing tighter restrictions for the amount of grain farmers are allowed to grow and to encourage
(D) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain capable of being grown by farmers and encouraging
(E) to establish tighter restrictions on the amount of grain farmers will be allowed to grow and to encourage

这题选E，小菜知道，但小菜有个问题一直不明白，求各位指点，问题如下：

题中的 try，若不考虑和下面的encourage平行，try and 和try doing 这两种形式是否在语义上说的通？？？

第一部分，对于try and establish：

小菜自己觉得不行，举个例子吧：

i eat and drink 我边吃边喝 ~ 这个and应该表示“同时进行”，逻辑上可以成立
open the door and sit down ~这个and应该表示“一先一后的逻辑顺序平行”，即先进门，然后坐下，逻辑上也成立~

那来看 sb try and establish restrictions
这个东东肯定不可能是边“尝试”，边“发布”，所以第一种说不通~
第二种呢，sb先“尝试”，然后“发表” ，语义上显然不同，因为try这个词是：有方向性的词，趋向性的感觉~单独的try，谁知道你在try什么？

所以try and establish不对~
所以这个时候可能就会去想try to establish restriction（设法发表规则），显然这个在语义上没有错误，还能把try和establish很好地连接起来，所以：要在establish前面加to~~

所以我认为，加to不单单是说：为了平行而平行，而是根据语义，然后观察，然后根据语义恰好是两个并列的意思，然后发现to do..and to do用作平行还不赖，然后才对的~

不知道大家同意我这种说法吗？

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第二部分，还有关于这里的try to do & try doing~~

因为在这题中，“when........, elected members will .......” 这是一个时间点上的事情，也就是说“当他们重新集合后，the next thing they need to do” 就是后面will要表达的东西了~~~
小菜记得baby姐说过：

began studying 表目的 ultimate goal.
began to study 表“this is what we are going to do” (有点动作的感觉)
所以，对于此题，在先不考虑平行的时候，try to do 也应该是最好的选择~~~
（不知道baby姐这点是否同意哈~）

（ps：to baby姐：起初我一直以为try to do 和 try doing是比较特殊的固定搭配，因为从中文感觉不大对劲，感觉应该不会适用您的那个：began studying & began to study~
~但后来想了想baby姐的例子，觉得还是按上面所说的解释才对，而不是简单的用中文翻译来比较~~）

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/7/17 17:04:09)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/7/18 2:40:09)