ChaseDream

标题: 问道TN-13的语法题，google都木有找到解释啊！求baby姐姐各路NN [打印本页]

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-5-31 22:31
标题: 问道TN-13的语法题，google都木有找到解释啊！求baby姐姐各路NN
Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.
(A) that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity
(B) of producing and understanding it have revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity
(C) by which it is produced and understood has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity
(D) by which it is produced and understood have revealed great complexity rather than underlying simplicity
(E) by which one produces and understands it have revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity

可是A中produce后缺少宾语啊！如果认为与make共用it作其宾语，我认为是不可以的。因为it后面还有understandable，要共用，这个understandable总得也要共用吧？但意思是荒谬的。我认为A是错的，当时模考我选了C
但是仔细一想，
C选项的逻辑意思是错误的the language is understood by process
但是我还是找不出选A的理由

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-5-31 23:40
睡前顶一个

作者: 晨依Jacqueline 时间: 2012-5-31 23:52
我不会。。。我猜的是produce后面的it省略了……
不应该是共用。。。
我主要是来帮高富帅顶一下帖子的

作者: bb1447 时间: 2012-5-31 23:57
understandable为什么总得也要共用？？

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-6-1 04:06
My take on this question:
(We are already down to A and C)

Split #1. "the processes that produce ..." VS. "the processes by which it is produced ..."

(1) "the processes that produce ..." is logically sound

Ask yourself: does it make sense to say "the processes produce the language" and "the processes make it understandable"?

Well, I ask this question because this question is important to consider. Only if the answer is "yes", the usage of "the processes that produce ..." is justified.
An example from Ron:
INCORRECT: The restaurant that we ate last Friday was crowded.
(This sentence literally says that "we ate the restaurant" -oh my gosh!!!!)
CORRECT: The restaurant at which we ate last Friday was crowded.

I mentioned the above example because I want to say: when we use essential noun modifier "something that bla bla", we should make sure it is EITHER:
(a) "something" is the subject or object of the "that clause"

OR
(b) "something" is this kind of words: finding, opinion, belief, suggestion, etc. and "that bla bla" is to explain "something" in a clause. --However, this situation does not apply here.

So, back to this question, the answer is "yes".
"the processes" can be the subject. i.e. we can say "the processes produce the language"
Therefore, the usage in A is justified.

(2) potential ambiguity in "the processes by which it is produced"

Consider the following two sentences. Does each of these two sentences make logical sense?
(a) Ancient Chinese produced the language by this process.
(b) This process produced the language.

As we discussed above, (b) makes logical sense.
Look at (a). It also makes sense, right? Using some process, people can produce a language.

So what I mean is:
if you, as a reader, see a sentence written as "the processes by which the language is produced", you may have two logically sound interpretations:
(a) some people (or nationality or whatever) produced the language by the processes
(b) the processes produced the language
So you CANNOT tell who/what produced the language!

--Let me extend beyond this question.
I hear a lot of people say "GMAT prefers active voice to passive voice". Even a GMAT instructor says this in explaining this question. (http://www.beatthegmat.com/nature-of-language-t91077-15.html)
But I want to say: BE CAREFUL!!! Do not AUTOMATICALLY choose the active voice answer choice.
We should understand WHY the particular voice is preferred in the GIVEN situation.
This example illustrates the potential ambiguity embedded in the passive voice. In fact, MGMAT SC Guide has a wonderful example:
INCORRECT: The dealer was asked to sell a painting by Picasso.
Is it "a painting by Picasso" or "the dealer was asked by Picasso"? Ambiguous!
If you change the sentence to active voice, saying "The boss asked the dealer to sell a painting by Picasso." then the ambiguity issue is perfectly resolved.
See? Same logic applies here. "the processes by which it is produced" is ambiguous.

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/5/31 22:31:39)

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-6-1 04:28
Split #2. "has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity" VS. "has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity"

意思上有区别哦，可能对我们non-native speakers来说不大容易发现。以下是我的感觉，不太100%确认，不过还是比较有把握的。

想象一个“寻宝”游戏吧，比如主持人让你在一间屋子里寻找一颗珍珠，结果你找到目标了，主持人说“恭喜你找到了！” 但你失望地发现：目标并不是“珍珠”，而是以假乱真的黄豆

你可以说：
I have found a bean instead of a pearl.
好，回顾一下这句话的逻辑：你本来以为你将要找到a pearl，你的目标也是a pearl，结果当你历尽千辛万苦之后，你unexpectedly发现——
找到的目标居然不是a pearl而是a bean ("a bean instead of a pearl")

再换一个情景哈。现在新的游戏开始，主持人对你说：“这间屋子里有一颗珍珠和一颗黄豆，你的任务是找到它俩”
你使劲儿找啊找......时间到啦！你只找到了a bean，没有找到a pearl. 你说：
I have found not a pearl but a bean.
好了，这句话的逻辑，就是parallelism，相当于以下两个意思的叠加：
(a) I have not found a pearl.
AND
(b) I have found a bean.
那么，到底是否房间里确实存在a pearl呢？你不能回答，你只能说你没有找到而已。

Back to this question.
(C)的意思，就是我刚才的第2个场景。"has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity" 就说"underlying simplicity"完全可能是存在的（是"underlying"），只是那研究has not revealed.
这显然不是作者的本意。作者的本意是"instead of".

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/5/31 22:31:39)

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-6-1 12:52
baby姐姐的第二解释好精确！服了！懂了，谢谢姐姐

作者: linlanjun1993 时间: 2012-6-1 15:15
baby姐的解释太精辟了哈，赞一个！
语感还是要多多培养~~

作者: 晨依Jacqueline 时间: 2012-6-1 23:33
baby姐姐好细心~~赞！
哎呀以后高富帅发帖我必须来顶呀收获多多

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-6-1 23:44

baby姐姐好细心~~赞！
哎呀以后高富帅发帖我必须来顶呀收获多多

-- by 会员晨依Jacqueline (2012/6/1 23:33:34)

晨依一顶baby姐姐就来了哈哈

作者: jeffery2541 时间: 2012-6-2 00:00

Split #2. "has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity" VS. "has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity"

意思上有区别哦，可能对我们non-native speakers来说不大容易发现。以下是我的感觉，不太100%确认，不过还是比较有把握的。

想象一个“寻宝”游戏吧，比如主持人让你在一间屋子里寻找一颗珍珠，结果你找到目标了，主持人说“恭喜你找到了！” 但你失望地发现：目标并不是“珍珠”，而是以假乱真的黄豆

-- by 会员 DUKB24 (2012/5/31 22:31:39)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/1 4:28:06)

太佩服了！！！解释的真好！

作者: romanyck 时间: 2012-6-20 19:09

(a) some people (or nationality or whatever) produced the language by the processes

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/1 4:28:06)

觉得c的话，这个比较好理解 by 改成 through就完胜了...

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-6-21 10:47
Good catch!
现在回头来看这道题，我觉得可以有另外的思路，就是从主动被动的角度，preserve the intended meaning.
原句的意思，包含这么一个信息量："the processes produce and make it (the language) understandable"，就说produce这个动作的主语是the processes.
而C改成了被动："the processes by which it (the language) is produced"，这样C选项就没有讲到底是produce这个动作的主语是谁.
这就属于distort the original meaning，不能允许的，看到直接咔擦。

Takeaway: 主动被动的区别，是meaning issue.
类似题目：
1. OG12 #79
2. http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/when-drafting-the-declaration-of-sentiments-that-t8828.html?sid=748f0a2dc0ba6dcf9f4e5d30f09d971f
这题可以用modifier的角度来解，不过我觉得，抓住原句的meaning从主动/被动这点来解(preserve the original meaning)速度更快：原句drafted和included这两个动作是有主语的（是Elizabeth Cady Stanton干的），而adopted使用被动语态表示的（所以该动作的主语不明），那么正确选项也必须体现这个，所以只能是E.

(a) some people (or nationality or whatever) produced the language by the processes

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/1 4:28:06)

觉得c的话，这个比较好理解 by 改成 through就完胜了...

-- by 会员 romanyck (2012/6/20 19:09:34)

作者: 赤尾屿 时间: 2012-7-26 12:00
baby姐的第一种解释我有点困惑~
“the processes produced the language”
为什么是对的呢，我不太理解的了呢？
主语是过程，过程产生语言？
我怎么觉得怎么也是“the processes in which the language produced”

求解答呀~~~

作者: chengzaaaa 时间: 2012-7-26 23:48
解释的太传神易懂了！！！

作者: grainy 时间: 2012-8-17 21:13
babybear简直就是中国版的Ron大神啊。。。比Ron还多了三分温柔五分细致。

作者: sudasuda 时间: 2012-10-15 20:13
太厉害了。。。神来之笔~~~~

作者: nadine1009 时间: 2012-11-2 23:18
完了，只有我看完bb的解释依旧感觉这是一坨屎？

作者: DUKB24 时间: 2012-11-2 23:20
我怎么觉得我穿越了

LS具体哪里不明白吗？

作者: ielaine0828 时间: 2013-1-4 15:07
找不到了--

作者: stephenlevi 时间: 2013-2-16 12:38
baby你好, 这道题我有个不同的看法哈，我觉得prevent the original meaning 是以原句不产生歧义为前提的。我觉得A还是有歧义：Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has...
其中，虽然 that...作为Essential Noun Modifier优先修饰processes，但难免产生跳跃修饰前面research的歧义。produce这个动作是research还是processes发出的呢？
引用曼哈顿语法的一句话：if you have to read a sentence more than once to figure out what the author is saying-or if the sentence lends itself to multiple interpretations-it is not a good sentence.
而选项C恰好用介词by以被动形式回避了可能产生的歧义。（by which的which指代的是前面的processes）
我认为这道题是考察：避免歧义用被动。
恳请指正！

作者: yiqing2012 时间: 2013-2-16 13:43

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/6/1 4:28:06)

sorry~我对这个解释有一点不同的看法：我认为not A but B一定是否定A但是肯定B,不存在可能性问题：
BABY姐举得第一个例子：I have found not a pearl but a bean.
虽然不能确定这个屋子里是否有pearl,但是这句话的动词不是“有”，而是“have found”，这句话一定可以确定的是：我没有找到pearl，但是找到了bean,即一定否定了pearl,肯定了bean~
类似的有prep上的一个句子：Unlikethe independent candidacies of George in 1968 and John Anderson in 1980, H. Ross Perot's independent run for the presidency in 1992 arose not from an unsuccessful effort to gain a major party nomination but from a desire to establish a viable third party in American politics.

这里一定是否定了not后面，肯定了but后面的内容，不可能是不确定not后面对不对的问题~

回到这个题目：has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity ,这里的动词确定是“has revealed”，所以一定是没有reveal underlying simplicity 但是一定有reveal great complexity~所以这和instead of表达的意思是一样的，没有差别~
所以我认为not..but...和instead of是可以换用的~~

这题的split点在于process后面用that还是用by which。如果用by which，除了像前面baby姐提到的有语义歧义（可以有两种理解）之外，也会使process没有定义，而process在句子也没有出现过，却用了the特指，所以可见后面一定是一个modifier来形容这是“怎样的一个process“~

open to discuss~

作者: blairwashere 时间: 2013-2-21 12:30
baby姐的解释太精彩了看的真心舒爽啊

作者: bingc2012 时间: 2013-5-3 19:23
baby姐大牛，佩服啊！五体投地！

作者: 杀G给猴看 时间: 2013-5-4 12:26
大谢！看baby姐的解释后明白了很多~~但还是有问题不懂：

我能够大致理解by process的歧义，而且觉得the language is understood by the process也不对。但是对于DUKB最原始在帖子中提到的produce找不到宾语的问题还是不明白：process在定语从句中做主语，the process produce the language的宾语是怎么来的（如果不是“借用”了make的宾语的话）？

作者: lycorisss 时间: 2013-7-27 21:49
赞！偶然看到这个解释，实在是佩服呀

作者: besoru 时间: 2013-9-24 13:40

同问the process produce the language的宾语是怎么来的？求NN们解答

作者: DANIELZZZZZ 时间: 2013-10-21 11:57
thxxxxxxxx

作者: DANIELZZZZZ 时间: 2013-10-21 12:00
really thxxxxxxx

作者: Indigolove 时间: 2013-10-21 12:11
Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

(A) that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity
(B) of producing and understanding it have revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity
(C) by which it is produced and understood has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity
(D) by which it is produced and understood have revealed great complexity rather than underlying simplicity
(E) by which one produces and understands it have revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity

According to S-V agreement, Research is singular and verb should be has, so we elinimate B,D,E

Regardless of "that" and "by which" we should know what they modify

language and the processes are plural, so when we modify them, we should say by which they(language and the processes) are produced and understood

So we know C is wrong

We go with A

作者: xinying07 时间: 2014-2-24 05:42
讲的太好了

感谢加赞

作者: cathywang2013 时间: 2014-3-4 15:25
还是没有明白

作者: cathywang2013 时间: 2014-3-4 15:27
虽然我答案选对了但是完全是凭借语感的咋办a啊完全没看明白各位的解释啊

作者: fo_yu 时间: 2014-3-26 09:18
got it clearly.

作者: JellyC 时间: 2014-7-9 14:48

从这个角度来看是不是也可以这么说，not。。。but。。。体现的是期待not后面的词但其实发现得到的是but后面的词，所以放在题目中，期待的其实是great complexity而不是underlying simplicity？也就是说not。。but。。句式其实有略强调not后面内容的意思？不知道这样理解可不可以。。。

作者: Teeth123 时间: 2014-7-31 15:57

我还想问一下哈，产生歧义的第一种意思（a）是因为it的指代问题造成的吗？it指代language？
（b）中的意思it指代的是processes？那by which又是指代的谁呢？
我有点搞不清楚了，举得那个例子是懂了，但变成定语从句之后，颠倒了顺序，我有的时候就读不太出来。

谢谢！

作者: 空白儿 时间: 2014-8-17 10:36
太棒了赞一个~~~~

作者: garnettcuidifan 时间: 2014-8-22 04:18
Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

(A) that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity
(C) by which it is produced and understood has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity

我看到楼主鼓励讨论，于是想参与一下。我对这句话的理解是把句子分成三个等级

主要成分：第一等级 Research during the past several decades
has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

然后：第二等级 on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable 整个是用来形容research的。

然后第三等级：that produce and make it understandable 用来形容processes 名词负数和动词一致。

在第三等级中：processes that produce and make it understandable 这个过程制造并且使得it可以被理解。我在做提过程中在这里的疑问是it 作为单数指的是research 还是the nature of language. 后来分析是it 指的是the nature of the language. 因为 the nature of language and the processes 都是research 的一部分，因此我们要选择的是两种逻辑：第一 "部分A(processes) 使得部分B (the nature of processes)可以被理解"
第二 “processes作为research的一部分自己使得自己容易被理解”
这里是我后来分析选择了第一，因为选项二自己使得自己被理解可以用被动语态表示更加直接。
不过在做题的时候不管你的it指的是research还是the nature。这里的主要逻辑是 the processes使得it可以被理解。
而选项c用的是被动和单数的it，这里句子意思变成research（代表it) 被人们制造和理解。。。改变了选项a的句子的本意processes作为research的一个部分和动词produce和make的发动者使得 the nature of language被人们理解。
因此我选择了a。
求大家指点错误！

作者: garnettcuidifan 时间: 2014-8-22 04:23

Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

(A) that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity
(C) by which it is produced and understood has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity

我看到楼主鼓励讨论，于是想参与一下。我对这句话的理解是把句子分成三个等级

主要成分：第一等级 Research during the past several decades
has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

然后：第二等级 on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable 整个是用来形容research的。

然后第三等级：that produce and make it understandable 用来形容processes 名词负数和动词一致。

在第三等级中：processes that produce and make it understandable 这个过程制造并且使得it可以被理解。我在做提过程中在这里的疑问是it 作为单数指的是research 还是the nature of language. 后来分析是it 指的是the nature of the language. 因为 the nature of language and the processes 都是research 的一部分，因此我们要选择的是两种逻辑：第一 "部分A(processes) 使得部分B (the nature of processes)可以被理解"
第二 “processes作为research的一部分自己使得自己容易被理解”
这里是我后来分析选择了第一，因为选项二自己使得自己被理解可以用被动语态表示更加直接。
不过在做题的时候不管你的it指的是research还是the nature。这里的主要逻辑是 the processes使得it可以被理解。
而选项c用的是被动和单数的it，这里句子意思变成research（代表it) 被人们制造和理解。。。改变了选项a的句子的本意processes作为research的一个部分和动词produce和make的发动者使得 the nature of language被人们理解。
因此我选择了a。
求指点错误！

作者: garnettcuidifan 时间: 2014-8-22 04:24
Research during the past several decades on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

(A) that produce and make it understandable has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity
(C) by which it is produced and understood has revealed not underlying simplicity but great complexity

我看到楼主鼓励讨论，于是想参与一下。我对这句话的理解是把句子分成三个等级

主要成分：第一等级 Research during the past several decades
has revealed great complexity instead of underlying simplicity.

然后：第二等级 on the nature of language and the processes that produce and make it understandable 整个是用来形容research的。

然后第三等级：that produce and make it understandable 用来形容processes 名词负数和动词一致。

在第三等级中：processes that produce and make it understandable 这个过程制造并且使得it可以被理解。我在做提过程中在这里的疑问是it 作为单数指的是research 还是the nature of language. 后来分析是it 指的是the nature of the language. 因为 the nature of language and the processes 都是research 的一部分，因此我们要选择的是两种逻辑：第一 "部分A(processes) 使得部分B (the nature of processes)可以被理解"
第二 “processes作为research的一部分自己使得自己容易被理解”
这里是我后来分析选择了第一，因为选项二自己使得自己被理解可以用被动语态表示更加直接。
不过在做题的时候不管你的it指的是research还是the nature。这里的主要逻辑是 the processes使得it可以被理解。
而选项c用的是被动和单数的it，这里句子意思变成research（代表it) 被人们制造和理解。。。改变了选项a的句子的本意processes作为research的一个部分和动词produce和make的发动者使得 the nature of language被人们理解。
因此我选择了a。

作者: jhanas 时间: 2014-8-24 14:12
这个解释真的是太赞了！！

作者: DANIELLLLLL 时间: 2015-1-13 11:51
baby姐真是用“心”解答，完全参透了SC的本质! PFPF!

作者: babyrun 时间: 2015-2-19 17:27
qiangaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

作者: weilf615 时间: 2015-6-23 12:36
哇，太牛了，这智商和这用心的程度，我辈叹为观止！！！

作者: untilil 时间: 2015-11-5 09:56

baby姐~我还是不太明白T T 就是说被动一定要表示出来动作的发出者么？可是我觉得语言由某个process发出感觉没有什么不对T T。。啊啊可能我还没完全了理解主被动？求解答~谢谢啦~

作者: untilil 时间: 2015-11-5 09:58

为什么我还是觉得it is understood by the process 挺对的呀。。。就是说通过这个过程语言被理解了。。。感觉很顺啊 orz。。纠结了一晚上还是没想通T T

作者: 无为 时间: 2015-11-28 07:04

讲得太好了

作者: xyxyxy_123 时间: 2016-7-25 20:41

崇拜baby姐~~~

作者: blu_bamboo 时间: 2017-3-21 03:00
刚刚把OG的SC做完了第一遍，错误率感人不说，对知识点的敏感程度也低地吓人。看到LZ从不同层面，结合经典的例子来解释，找到了复习SC的方向。非常感谢LZ的分享！

作者: yua 时间: 2017-4-1 08:53
ding!!

作者: 噜啦啦biu 时间: 2017-7-19 14:00
好厉害~~！

作者: chaseurmom 时间: 2017-9-6 14:28

为啥B不对啊

作者: 王百卉 时间: 2017-10-22 20:45
顶楼主！

作者: 神粥八宝 时间: 2017-11-30 10:38
感谢分享！

作者: ziling00 时间: 2018-10-16 09:51
感谢

作者: 郑布拉希莫维奇 时间: 2019-1-23 23:51

同意！

作者: Rieu 时间: 2019-1-30 06:48

同意！

作者: 图图君 时间: 2019-5-9 10:34
总结下：
被动表达会产生歧义。我们不太清楚什么到底produce了什么
1. The processes produce xxx.
2. XX is produced by processes.

但是，正常的通顺表达不应该是 has not revealed xxx but xxx. 如果用 has revealed not xxx but xxx, 显得很奇怪。

作者: 麦西维熙 时间: 2019-11-5 23:26
Mark一下！

作者: 畅畅畅 时间: 2020-5-13 11:31
感谢分享！

作者: 生活就要Hygge! 时间: 2020-10-13 15:43
baby姐真强！

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