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标题: 【求确认，求持续讨论】comma+V-ing非系表结构里到底能不能作定语？【求版主乱入】 [打印本页]

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-16 12:58
标题: 【求确认，求持续讨论】comma+V-ing非系表结构里到底能不能作定语？【求版主乱入】
贴出baby姐引述的RON的话：
"no comma+v-ing"是noun modifier, 遵从touch rule
"comma+v-ing" is adverbial modifier, modifies the entire action of the preceding clause and applies to the subject within that clause. 换句话说就是只能作状语不能作定语

说是这么说，但是楼主发现OG解释里和PREP里很多矛盾！comma+v-ing 到底能不能在非系表结构里作定语？？

21. Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are now drawing solid conclusions about how the human brain grows and how babies acquire language.
(A) Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are
(B) Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty
years, and are
(C) Neuroscientists amassing a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty years, and are
(D) Neuroscientists have amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,
(E) Neuroscientists have amassed, over the past twenty years, a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,

这道题OG解释里说答案D：“The final descriptor in present tense, now drawing conclusions … does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-perfect tense (have amassed a wealth …) and seems to modify adulthood ”。
换句话就是说非系表结构可以在有逗号的情况下依然可以作后置定语修饰adulthood？这样的用法可以GMAC接受？

还有两个例子：
OG12-65
65. In a plan to stop the erosion of East Coast beaches,
the Army Corps of Engineers proposed building
parallel to shore a breakwater of rocks that would rise
six feet above the waterline and act as a buffer, so
that it absorbs the energy of crashing waves and
protecting the beaches.
(A) act as a buffer, so that it absorbs
(B) act like a buffer so as to absorb
(C) act as a buffer, absorbing
(D) acting as a buffer, absorbing
(E) acting like a buffer, absorb
OA:C
OG说absorbing修饰宾语breakwater

PREP07-SC1-96
In some species of cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve as an approximate thermometer.

(A) for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve
(B) for attracting females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, which can in fact serve
(C) in attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving
(D) to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can in fact serve
(E) to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving
OA

笔记上说E的错误是serving作后置定语修饰temperature存在歧义

求大牛解惑。小弟拜谢

作者: cleotina 时间: 2012-5-16 13:15
首次从语法上讲—ing可以就近修饰，修饰名词主语或者整个句子。而到底修饰那部分呢? 根据大家的讨论没有固定规则，主要从逻辑方面理解。

在第一题中，that 从句和最后的Buffer都是要说明breakwater的，因此即使按照就近修饰原则逻辑上也说的通。

而在第二人题，修饰主语和就近修饰temperature 就是不一样的意思，容易引起混淆。

最后跟我的做题经验来看，如果语法解释有犹豫加上逻辑理解就没问题了。

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-16 18:03

首次从语法上讲—ing可以就近修饰，修饰名词主语或者整个句子。而到底修饰那部分呢? 根据大家的讨论没有固定规则，主要从逻辑方面理解。

在第一题中，that 从句和最后的Buffer都是要说明breakwater的，因此即使按照就近修饰原则逻辑上也说的通。

而在第二人题，修饰主语和就近修饰temperature 就是不一样的意思，容易引起混淆。

最后跟我的做题经验来看，如果语法解释有犹豫加上逻辑理解就没问题了。

-- by 会员 cleotina (2012/5/16 13:15:36)

第一题中不能就近修饰buffer吧。。如果修饰buffer还有逗号做什么呢？同第二题：如果做temperature定语，要逗号做什么呢？

还是不明白啊

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-17 14:33
UP

作者: scarlett006 时间: 2012-5-17 14:41
第二句用serving的话楼主是想表示伴随还是结果呢？这里意思应该是平行的吧？

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-18 13:58
serving在这里当然只能作伴随动作状语，而且不会有歧义。伴随rise and fall啊，逻辑主语也没问题。但是笔记上非要说他能做定语。非常不解。如果是作定语为什么要那个逗号

作者: wangjieava23 时间: 2012-5-18 21:40
65. In a plan to stop the erosion of East Coast beaches, the Army Corps of Engineers proposed building parallel to shore a breakwater of rocks that would rise six feet above the waterline and act as a buffer, so
that it absorbs the energy of crashing waves and protecting the beaches.
(A) act as a buffer, so that it absorbs
(B) act like a buffer so as to absorb
(C) act as a buffer, absorbing
(D) acting as a buffer, absorbing
(E) acting like a buffer, absorb

Parallelism; Idiom
The last part of the sentence describes the breakwaterand should consist of two grammatically parallel phrases, absorbing … and protecting, in order to show two equal functions. Act followed by like means to behave or comport oneself and describes the action of a person: He acted like a fool. Here, act as describes the function of a thing; the breakwater … acts as a buffer. As an inanimate object, a breakwater cannot “behave” itself; it must be performing some function.

A So that it absorbs should be absorbing to parallel protecting.
B Act as is the proper idiom to describe things; so as to absorb is awkward and should be changed to absorbing to be parallel to protecting.
C Correct. Th e idiom act as is used correctly in this sentence; absorbing is properly parallel to protecting.
D Modifying clause is that would rise … and (would understood) act; acting cannot be used instead of act.
E Modifying clause is that would rise … and (would understood) act; acting cannot be used instead of act; absorb is not parallel to protecting.

这个OG解释无论是总的解释，还是分项解释只是强调了absorbing 和 protecting 的平行。

看这句的主干： the Army Corps of Engineers proposed buildinga breakwater, absorbing the energy of crashing waves and protecting the beaches.

absorbing .....and protecting......,都是做为前句的目的，修饰整个前句。

..............................................................................................................................................................

PREP07-SC1-96

In some species of cricket, the number of chirps per minute used by the male for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve as an approximate thermometer.
(A) for attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and they can in fact serve
(B) for attracting females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, which can in fact serve
(C) in attracting females rise and fall in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving
(D) to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, and it can in fact serve
(E) to attract females rises and falls in accordance with the surrounding temperature, in fact possibly serving

笔记上说E的错误是serving作后置定语修饰temperature存在歧义
Serving也是修饰前句呀，作副词。
至于这里不用serving，是不是因为这里的", and it can...."不是在表达“，ving”的那种紧密的“伴随或结果”的逻辑关系呢。感觉And it ...这里是在解释说明。如果把Ving理解为形容词，具有解释功能，则是将Ving视为定语修饰语。这时候，Ving应该尽可能和与它要修饰的名词放在一起。修饰名词的方式有两种：1. Noun+ving, 2. Noun, ving。也就是说Ving，以及其他成分做定语，做形容词时，一定要遵循 touch rule (尽可能靠近被修饰的名词)。这样理解的话，这个serving 按照语法规则就是在修饰temperature，而不是在解释主语the number of chirps ......。我想，这就是笔记要说的事情。

...........................................................................................................................................................

PS：楼主请问Ron 关于非系表，Ving不能做定语的解释是不是基于下面这道题做出来的：

30. For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
(A) a method to protect
(B) as a method protecting
(C) protecting
(D) as a protection of
(E) to protect

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-19 15:42
OG答案上明确写的就是“the last part of the sentence describes the breakwater”不管平不平行，这里的absorb和protect只能是作定语解释宾语breakwater啊。楼主困惑的是什么情况下“，ing”可以作定语

你说的修饰名词的方式有两种：1. Noun+ving, 2. Noun, ving。
第一条我没意见
但是第二条我不能同意
第二条的noun必须要放在具体结构里才能说是作定语啊
比如：
S, v-ing, VO这里ving修饰主语S
或者主系表，ving修饰主语S
或者SVO, ving的时候修饰主语S

按照您的说法是noun, ving那就有作定语的可能
OG上ving歧义错误那就爆表了
比如：
OG12-94. The recent surge in the number of airplane flights has clogged the nation's air-traffic control system, to lead to 55 percent more delays at airports, and prompts fears among some officials that safety is being compromised.
(A) to lead to 55 percent more delays at airports,and prompts
(B) leading to 55 percent more delay at airports and prompting
(C) to lead to a 55 percent increase in delay at airports and prompt
(D) to lead to an increase of 55 percent in delays at airports, and prompted
(E) leading to a 55 percent increase in delays at airports and prompting

按照你的说法noun, ing，那这里的ing可以修饰noun
那这个正确答案E就有会control system的歧义（虽然这里逻辑上leading是明显的结果状语，但是按照你的修饰理论，noun+comma+ing在语法上就可能逗号前的noun，所以即使逻辑错误也不能否认语法上修饰歧义的成立性）

作者: wangjieava23 时间: 2012-5-19 17:08
嗯，

刚明白过来，就是为这句话“the last part of the sentence describes the breakwater”。

describe 可以是noun modifier, 也可以是是verb modifier 呀

不过这个解释是不怎么好。

作者: wangjieava23 时间: 2012-5-19 17:12
Noun, Ving, 是有修饰名词的可能性呀。比如animal shield 题。我这样看的。

我更想说的是，第二个题划线部分是在做解释。ving做定语，有这样的功能。

而且，我也在找Ron 在哪里说得“非主系表，Ving有定语功能”。除了，我上面贴的 animal shield 题，我没有见过句尾Ving的定语的。

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-19 17:36
系表结构是可以做定语的啊比如：OG-30正确句子
For members of theseventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with woodenframes were essential items of military equipment, protecting warriors against enemy arrows and spears.

protecting就是修饰主语shields和宾语items啊
因为主系表是特殊结构，A is B所以A=B，所以修饰A也就是修饰B啊，所以protecting既作主语shield的定语说明作用，也作items的后置定语说明作用啊

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-29 14:23
UP 求指点

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-30 13:51

作者: qiaowin88637 时间: 2012-5-31 00:38

芝麻来人

作者: superbat28 时间: 2012-5-31 09:31
【，V-ing】优先做状语考虑（可能是伴随状语，可能是结果状语，具体情况具体分析）

但是，这样的结构，从未失去其作定语的可能。也就是，实在句子中这个结构做状语说不通的话，它可能还是会被抓来做定语的。

作者: 玄冥太子 时间: 2012-7-27 17:04

不懂，那么说只要在句尾而且逗号前面有名词Ving就有歧义咯？
还有OG13-35
OG13-35
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen
official national and international speed records, and
she earned them at a time when aviation was still so
new for many of the planes she flew to be of
dangerously experimental design,
(A) and she earned them at a time when aviation
was still so new for many of the planes she flew
to be
(B) earning them at a time that aviation was still so
new for many of the planes she flew to be
(C) earning these at a time where aviation was still
so new that many of the planes she flew were
(D) earned at a time in which aviation was still so
new such that many of the planes she flew were
(E) earned at a time when aviation was still so new
that many of the planes she flew were
答案是E。
OG对B项的解释是：Here, the word earning takes the pilot herself, not the records, as its subject. However, earning is close to the records, not to Jacqueline Cochran, making this sentence hard to process. In addition, the causal relationship between aviation being new and planes being of experimental design is more effectively communicated by the structure so new that many X were Y, not by the structure so new for many Y to be X.
按照Ron的条件，earning them at a time完全满足。earning可以视为和held同时发生，且apply to the subject。也就是对的，为什么OG却说是不对的，有可能修饰records.还有一种说法是earn离主语太远造成修饰歧义，在我看来这跟OG13-29题相比较已经算近的了。
OG13-29
Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering her letters to anyone else.
为什么还会产生修饰歧义？

作者: flhuihui1001 时间: 2013-11-8 12:05

楼上，我的疑问也和你一样，结合一些google资料和ron的解释，希望以下内容对你有帮助：

In the # 35, the action “earn” and “have ”are not simultaneous actions. Logically you “have” something after you “earn”it. So #35 does not apply to the below 2-2) case. And “earn” is not the resultof “have”, so #35 does not apply to the 2-1) case, either. Therefore, “comma+ing”here functions as a noun modifier.

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How to use“clause, +ing” comstruction

Case 1. -ing modifies a noun in the clause. Comma+ing follows the Touch Rule as a noun modifier.

1) -ing modifies the subject

Rushing to catch her plane, Bridget left the party. (-ing describe Bridget = rushing)

2) -ing modifiesthe object

I go to a party, dying down. (-ing describe the party = dying down)

Case 2. -ing modifies the preceding whole clause.In this case, -ing applies to the subject of the preceding clause and has nothing to do with the Touch Rule(Touch rule is only available for noun modifier!).

1) -ing indicates a result of the preceding clause and applies to the subject, that is, the subject is aperson/thing whose action is responsible for the result described in the -ing modifier, but the subject is not the direct doer of the -ing action.

Eg: Jam broke the window, angering his father. (Jam didn't anger hisfather directly but his action angered his father)

2) -ing indicates a simultaneous,but lower-priority, action and applies to the subject.

Eg: I write my paper, sitting on my favorite chair

Reference: http://www.knewton.com/blog/gmat/2011/07/11/what-to-memorize-for-the-gmat-5-more-must-know-rules/

http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/regarding-comma-verbing-t11652.html

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Here comes the explanation of OG’s answer.

Since “earning” here is a noun modifier, it follows Touch Rule. Now we turn to the case 1.

1) If you want “Earning” to modify the subject, the sentence should be: Earning her speed records at a time……, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran, by 1940, held seventeen…...

2) If you want “Earning” to modify the Object (records), “earning” should be in the Passive Voice since the recordsis earned. So Option E is right.

There is no modifying ambiguity in the #29.“beginning” and “ending” modify the period. “Outnumbering” modify the whole preceding clause to indicate a result.

作者: sun0091222 时间: 2013-11-17 08:02

flhuihui1001 发表于 2013-11-8 12:05
楼上，我的疑问也和你一样，结合一些google资料和ron的解释，希望以下内容对你有帮助：
In the # 35, the a ...

解答的很详细，谢谢

作者: zincgirl 时间: 2014-9-4 19:59
受益匪浅

作者: 愤怒的大橘子 时间: 2015-9-29 15:56
15版的Neuroscientists那道答案改为A了。。。。。。
C:Amassing, like having amassed, functions as an adjective,not a verb;the sentence therefore lacks the first main verb implied by the compound verb construction and are now drawing...

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