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标题: 关于 OG12 86 的时态问题 [打印本页]

作者: hangzhoukk 时间: 2012-2-26 13:39
标题: 关于 OG12 86 的时态问题
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its pro? ts, which increased 5 percent
during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the ? rst 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the ? rst 3 months of this year after having fallen

正确答案是C.

因为不确定正确答案为什么要用现在完成时，去查了manhattan，其中提到现在完成时指的是发生在过去延续到现在的事情，一般过去时指的是发生在过去的事情，如：
Right: We HAVE LIVED in a hut for three days.
This sentence means that we started living in the hut three days ago and that we are stil
living in that hut. In comparison, a sentence in the Simple Past has a different meaning.
Right: We LIVED in a hut for three days.
This example means that we are no longer living in the hut. The three days are over.
如果这样理解的话，86题C选项用一般过去时表示：
increased 5 percent during the ?rst 3 months of this year 利润后面没有再继续增长的意思是否也可以？
不知道我这样理解对不对，请NN指正

作者: hangzhoukk 时间: 2012-2-26 14:34
NN快出现

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-26 16:17
http://www.beatthegmat.com/present-perfect-and-past-perfect-usage-summarized-t49438.html
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post58397.html#p58397

看Ron(lunarpower)的发言，看完你就明白啦

作者: hangzhoukk 时间: 2012-2-26 19:24
谢谢楼上MM，每次看你的回帖都受益匪浅！
时态的问题真的好纠结，看了ron的发言，我试着总结一下，如果不准确的地方还望指出噢：

过去完成时用来说明两个事实的先后顺序，需要有一个过去的时间作为支点，其强调的是一个事情发生在另一个之前，强调的是顺序。
如：tom had been a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident
这里强调的是tom作为一个pro是在injured之前，也就是强调injured导致了tom不再是pro了

一般过去时用来说明某个发生在过去的事实，其强调的是事实
如：tom was a professional football player before his leg was injured in an accident
这里强调的是tom以前是个pro这个事实。

现在完成时用来说明某个事情发生在过去，其动作或者效果持续到现在，其强调的是现在依然具有该状态
如：tom has been a professional football player
说明tom过去是个pro，现在依然是。
而tom was a professional football player
说明tom过去是pro，现在是不是不确定。

个人总结，不对的地方还请NN指正。

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-26 20:15
to lz:
我不是NN，一起探讨学习，verb tense这块儿就是Ron一直称为non-native speakers最难掌握的SC知识点。你总结的很好，不过也许你没看完整个讨论....
就这题来说，我觉得诠释很典型的perfect tense的用法。
你看看Ron举的那个Argentina的例子，我试着转述：
If I'm talking about the country Argentina (its culture, geography, economy, people, etc.), then I'll say, "I have been to Argentina in 1987. " Because my experience is relevant to the topic (Argentina) that I am talking now.

If I'm saying that I love travel and that I have traveled around the world, then I'll say, "I went to Argentina in 1987, blabla. I went to Brazil in 1988, blabla..." Here I'm simply saying the fact that "I went to Argentina in 1987", which is irrelevant to my current situation.

From this point of view, you can understand why scientific papers usually say something like:
"

revious studies have shown that ..."
--Yeah, this kind of sentences are very commonly found in the Background or Introduction session. The present perfect tense suggests that the results of previous studies have direct bearing on current study, which is discussed in this paper.

所以这里"profits, which have increased ..." 同理

The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its pro? ts, which increased 5 percent
during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it fell over the last two years.
(A) which increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it fell
(B) which had increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after it had fallen
(C) which have increased 5 percent during the ? rst 3 months of this year after falling
(D) with a 5 percent increase during the ? rst 3 months of this year after falling
(E) with a 5 percent increase during the ? rst 3 months of this year after having fallen

正确答案是C.

因为不确定正确答案为什么要用现在完成时，去查了manhattan，其中提到现在完成时指的是发生在过去延续到现在的事情，一般过去时指的是发生在过去的事情，如：
Right: We HAVE LIVED in a hut for three days.
This sentence means that we started living in the hut three days ago and that we are stil
living in that hut. In comparison, a sentence in the Simple Past has a different meaning.
Right: We LIVED in a hut for three days.
This example means that we are no longer living in the hut. The three days are over.
如果这样理解的话，86题C选项用一般过去时表示：
increased 5 percent during the ?rst 3 months of this year 利润后面没有再继续增长的意思是否也可以？
不知道我这样理解对不对，请NN指正

-- by 会员 hangzhoukk (2012/2/26 13:39:01)

作者: hangzhoukk 时间: 2012-2-26 20:52
MM真是太热心了！对我来说你就是NN了。。谢谢补充！

按照你的例子来看，关于我对现在完成时的理解，说明某个事情发生在过去，其动作或者效果持续到现在应该是对的。
那么OG86题正确选项的理解应该是：
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its pro?ts, which have increased 5 percent during the ?rst 3 months of this year after falling over the last two years。
现在完成时表达的是在前三个月增长了5%，并且持续增长到现在。

如果换成一般过去时，语法上还是正确的，只是语意有所改变：
The results of the company’s cost-cutting measures are evident in its pro?ts, which increased 5 percent during the ?rst 3 months of this year after falling over the last two years。
表达的是前三个月增长了5%，之后是否增长从文中无法确定，。

这样理解对吗？

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-26 21:11
我认为，一般过去时语法上不正确。
要联系上下文
"The results of ___ are evident in its profits, which ____"

就说这个profits，哪怕是发生在过去，都属于对现在的话题产生直接影响("are evident in")，所以甭管怎样，必须用have increased.

你想想刚才说的学术paper里面的例子，"previous studies have shown that ___"
我们明明知道这是过去的（是过去结束的研究，不持续到现在），是previous studies，为啥要用现在完成时？
或者那个Argentina的例子，如果咱正在讨论Argentina的风土人情，我就必须说"I have been to Argentina in 1987"，为什么？
想明白了，那这题就懂了。

作者: hangzhoukk 时间: 2012-2-26 21:46
谢谢！
我明白了，只要是现在的事实是被过去的事实所影响的，那么过去的事实就应该使用现在完成时。
解了我一大困惑啊！
不过看起来这个区别还确实蛮微妙的，怪不得RON大说GMAT极少单独考这个语法点，基本都会伴随其他的错误。

作者: phoebe0624 时间: 2012-3-2 22:42
好贴！

作者: bluesolo 时间: 2012-3-4 11:42
1. 那我想再请教一下，为什么后面的fall需要用-ing形式呢？
2. 如果要强调，profits在今年早期之前都是掉的，应该怎么说呢？是不是：
Profits had fallen for 2 years before （后面应该如何写？？请指教）

谢谢！

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-3-4 15:43
1. 因为有个"after"
I went home after finishing school.
I go home after finishing school.
I will go home after finishing school.
你发现了，甭管主句是什么时态，都是"after finishing school"。这是个规律——通常v-ing在时态上默认跟随主句时态。比如说这三句话，如果"finishing school"这个动作正常写的话，应该分别写成
After I finished school, I went home.
（这个句子也可以写成After I had finished school, I went home. 语法上两者都没问题，只是语言表达的侧重点不同。）
After I finish school, I go home.
After I finish school, I will go home. （这里照理说是"After I will finish school"，但将来时的惯例，大家知道的.....）

2.
好吧，我这么理解的，就像物理学一样，需要首先确定一个参照系(reference frame)。只要理解了这点，英语中所有时态问题都很简单。比如这题原题，你从意思上看，"The results of X are evident in its profits, which blabla" 是不是能很明显看出，观测者所在的reference frame，是present? 很明显，因为有个"are evident"，就点出了这个reference frame. 尽管事情发生在过去，但是对现在产生直接影响，换句话说这个事情（尽管过去）是associated with the PRESENT "reference frame"，所以要用现在完成时。

这句话：
Prior to the company's cost-cutting measures, its profits had fallen for two years.
这里的时态就是正确的。注意这句话，并没有和现在的reference frame联系起来。换句话说，观测者处于过去的reference frame，所以要用过去完成时。

1. 那我想再请教一下，为什么后面的fall需要用-ing形式呢？
2. 如果要强调，profits在今年早期之前都是掉的，应该怎么说呢？是不是：
Profits had fallen for 2 years before （后面应该如何写？？请指教）

谢谢！

-- by 会员 bluesolo (2012/3/4 11:42:57)

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-3-4 17:38
baby姐对verb tense的问题解释的真是太好了，特别是那个参照系的例子，一语惊醒梦中人啊~
当我们还在事实真相边缘敲敲打打的时候，baby姐已经一针见血直击敌人要害了！

向斑竹强烈建议把baby姐的回复贴都设成精华帖！！！

作者: claire66 时间: 2012-4-12 23:03
BABY姐，但是OG上说，第一个数据的时态应该比第二个的晚，你说after doing所表示的时态和主句一样，不就和OG的解释矛盾了么~？》

作者: aeoluseros 时间: 2012-4-13 01:06

baby姐对verb tense的问题解释的真是太好了，特别是那个参照系的例子，一语惊醒梦中人啊~
当我们还在事实真相边缘敲敲打打的时候，baby姐已经一针见血直击敌人要害了！

向斑竹强烈建议把baby姐的回复贴都设成精华帖！！！

-- by 会员 teddybearj4 (2012/3/4 17:38:02)

同有这个想法~~要是可以加分就好了！！曾有一段时间可以评价某楼多少分这样的。

作者: aeoluseros 时间: 2012-4-13 01:08

BABY姐，但是OG上说，第一个数据的时态应该比第二个的晚，你说after doing所表示的时态和主句一样，不就和OG的解释矛盾了么~？》

-- by 会员 claire66 (2012/4/12 23:03:51)

时间介词 + doing是例外~
不过和其他介词+doing的简写一样，都是因为人们很好理解它的时态所以简写了。
所以不要记忆“介词+doing所表示的时态和主句一样，时间介词 + doing是例外”这样的死规则，而要去理解“为什么要简写” --> 因为简写了人们依然能“正确”理解主语、时态等等元素。

作者: zenglh1988 时间: 2012-11-13 04:43
本人弱弱地认为，after doing在处并不是表明时态。因为既然after不接句子，after只能作个介词后面接名词，所以使用doing这种简单的动名词（具有动词的含义，但性质上是个名词）是为了和句子前面的动词体现出一种动作上的前后呼应关系，至于时态得等到把完整句子给还原了才能分析出。
说话使用这种after+doing的方式时，从“after”上就已经判断出了动作的先后，没必要再采取别的明显的时态来表明动作的先后了。。。
open to discuss...

BABY姐，但是OG上说，第一个数据的时态应该比第二个的晚，你说after doing所表示的时态和主句一样，不就和OG的解释矛盾了么~？》

-- by 会员 claire66 (2012/4/12 23:03:51)

-- by 会员 aeoluseros (2012/4/13 1:08:24)

作者: FSail 时间: 2013-5-7 15:04
有是一个泪流满面的知识点啊！！！！！！

作者: gumgum330 时间: 2018-8-6 12:53
感谢分享！

作者: 魏姐来点辣酱 时间: 2019-5-6 18:05
谢谢baby姐的无私奉献还有耐心讲解！

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