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标题: 今天看MANHATTAN发现关于分词修饰和跳跃指代的疑惑 [打印本页]

作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 22:37
标题: 今天看MANHATTAN发现关于分词修饰和跳跃指代的疑惑
1. 句末分词
****以前我对句末分词的理解是:
不加逗号,就近修饰。
加了逗号,修饰主语/整句,表示伴随:伴随动作/伴随结果。
这两天看了一些题目,发现对分词的用法有点抓不准了。
****MANHATTAN里是这样说的:
-Ing Form is flexible.
1. modify noun: the changing seasons
2. modify verb 及其subject
2. modify entire clause
****昨天忘了在哪儿看见的了,也是说分词很灵活,在句尾还可以表示对内容的补充,表示means等等(疑惑一)
那么,MANHATTAN的一个例句:
The problem was identified, using the lastest technology.
以前我看这个明显就知道是错的:既不能修饰problem表伴随,又不能修饰整句表结果。
但是现在我confused了…不是可以表示补充么?那我这个就是补充的一种方法啊?
另外,OG-30题,
For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
(A) a method to protect
(B) as a method protecting
(C) protecting
(D) as a protection of
(E) to protect
OG的解释是:In this sentence, protecting properly introduces a modifying phrase revealing the purpose of the items. 这又是什么用法?(疑惑二)
我觉得最近看的语法有点杂,彻底晕了……
2. 跳跃修饰:
MANHATTAN在ADVANCED -- MODIFIER章节里面,提到了一个exception of TOUCH RULE, 其中有一个就是说:
A short non-essential phrase intervenes and is set off by comma.
那么,OG-107:
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
OG说里面的which incorrectly and illogically modifies emission,这不是用逗号隔开了嘛…而且called... 明显是non-essential的,符合TOUCH RULE的exception,应该是可以跳跃修饰啊……
----------------------------
麻烦大家了,有点蒙…
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 22:40
查到了BAT大神的回复贴,先贴过来
------------------------------
to everyone, especially 小花呱& kid两位童鞋~ 我突然顿悟了!赶快写下来,同你们共同再参考。
对于OG10 里解释说,把句尾变成used to do就对了,这一点,我仍不清楚。但对于别的点,我有以下思考:(先贴出原题)

30. For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
(A) a method to protect
(B) as a method protecting
(C) protecting
(D) as a protection of
(E) to protect

E选项解释说,Although the infinitive to protect would work if it were not preceded by a comma, it cannot act as a nonrestrictive adjectival phrase modifying items.

我突然明白E选项的中文意思是什么了:“尽管to protect在没有逗号的时候可以,但是(在有逗号的时候)to do不能作为非限制性形容词修饰items”
先看后半个句子,它是想说 "逗号+ to do"结构,不能作为非限制性形容词修饰items,我认为理由如下:
to do是个“非限定动词”(这个你们可以baidu以下哈,我也是昨晚才弄懂的。),而且它经常做状语。所以,用逗号把其与主句隔开,弄不懂它是要做状语,还是要做句尾那个名词的定语,所以有歧义。

而对于前半个句子,to do在没有逗号的时候是可以的,但是仍然语义模糊,这还是由于to do这个词既能做状语又能做定语所导致的。
如果做状语,表目的或表原因等任何关系,主句中都没有任何一个词能逻辑上发出to protect这个动作,要么是人自身去protect,要么是using那个器具去protect,所以作状语错。
如果做定语,修饰前面的名词结构。尽管可以认为items of military equipment是to protect的宾语,但是因全句中并未出现任何protect的主语,所以语义不明。
况且,对于类似to do, 介宾短语这样的结构,把其置于句尾就会产生歧义:因为它既想嫁给句子的谓语动词充当状语,又想嫁给最邻近的名词充当定语。所以这样放置一定是会有歧义的。

但是对于OG 10为什么认为used to do就可以了,我仍不知道。不过以下是我的推断。。
我觉得如果是used to do,那这个结构不管有没有逗号,都会就近修饰items of military equipment中的equipment,只不过是限制性修饰或非限制性修饰的问题。
因为主句是主系表结构,所以那个animal-hide shields和items of military equipment是一个东西。而且,我也感觉items和military equipment也是一个东西吧,只不过items是military equipment中的特定的一些,一种A of B结构,一种A是B的子集的形式。
如果对equipment加上used to protect,只是再次把equipment做了个限制,但shields还是那些items,没有变。。

就比如说,有一堆equipment,有的是用来protect warriors的,有的是用来attack animals的。如果先不加used to protect, 意思就是shields是那一堆equipment中的一种items。如果加上used to protect的话,即是说shields是那些“用来protect warriors的equipment(其实只是所有equipment的一个子集)的一种items”,并没有任何歧义。

因此used to do是正确的。。不知道说明白没有。。。。
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 22:43
BAT大神是解释E呀~正好,昨天碰巧看见了MANHATTAN instructor的解释,贴出:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can't use an infinitive after the comma. Remember that an infinitive functions as a verb, but we're trying to introduce a modifying clause here to provide further information about the military equipment. (OG-30)
This is just one of those things you have to memorize, unfortunately, especially if you are not a native speaker.
----------------------
以上就是一个instructor针对E写的explaination~希望有帮助~
作者: yiayia    时间: 2012-2-13 22:47
1.using the technology 的主语必须是人,句中没有出现,总不能the problem using吧? 注意句尾分词必须 apply to the subject!

protecting 是个verb modifier, OG的说法是revealing the purpose of the items.,表明目的,理解为补充也可以,但注意逻辑主语animal-hide shields with wooden frames 可以 protecting。

2.跳跃修饰   called proton-induced X-ray emission明显不是non-essential,相反它是最密切的修饰语,什么 a technique? a technique called... 这句话限定了主语。即使跳跃修饰,修饰的对象也只在前面的逗号前,D选项的 a technique里which实在太遥远,隔了好多好多的词啊,因此OG认为which修饰的是emission。
作者: yiayia    时间: 2012-2-13 22:48
BINGO, to do 想要修饰名词,的确中间不能隔逗号
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 22:52
1.using the technology 的主语必须是人,句中没有出现,总不能the problem using吧? 注意句尾分词必须 apply to the subject!

protecting 是个verb modifier, OG的说法是revealing the purpose of the items.,表明目的,理解为补充也可以,但注意逻辑主语animal-hide shields with wooden frames 可以 protecting。

2.跳跃修饰   called proton-induced X-ray emission明显不是non-essential,相反它是最密切的修饰语,什么 a technique? a technique called... 这句话限定了主语。即使跳跃修饰,修饰的对象也只在前面的逗号前,D选项的 a technique里which实在太遥远,隔了好多好多的词啊,因此OG认为which修饰的是emission。
-- by 会员 yiayia (2012/2/13 22:47:29)


1.是说,不管ing做什么,伴随啊结果啊补充啊,都要apply to subject,这是不变的rule?
2.大概能理解了,记得好像有这么一对例句:(精髓在,具体的东西可能不一样)
The apple on the table ..... 限定到了在桌子上的apple
This apple, which is on the table,....已经表明是this,已经有限定,那么后面的就是non-essential,这里的tech没有其他的限定,所以called 明显是很重要的限定~是这个意思么?
作者: 泾渭不凡    时间: 2012-2-13 22:55
标题: 亲~~饭饭怕你着急~~先把prep相关知识点给你粘贴过来~~看看能不能有所帮助
V-ing(present participle)修饰:

V-ing结构在句子中可以做定语,状语。

1)放在句子末尾时,如果前面是主谓宾结构,如果同时时态上与主句搭配合理,V-ing结构作状语,作为:

伴随动作,表与主句动词同时发生的动作

伴随结果,表主句动作带来的结果。

此时注意其逻辑主语的判断:其所修饰分句的动作发出者。

2)如果前面是主系表结构,由于系动词是一个状态不存在“被伴随”,但是V-ing结构依然修饰的是整个主系表结构,所以后面的V-ing结构也可以被解读为修饰前面的名词成分主语(如果宾语是名词,也一同修饰,因为主系表结构中主语和宾语所指是同一事物--OG10-39, OG11-24中对正确选项C的解释)。

例:OG10-39For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.

A.a method to protect

B.as a method protecting

C.protecting

D.as a protection of

E.to protect

OG10-39的解释(注意C选项的解释):

Choice C is best because the participle protecting begins a phrase that explains what the shields did. Choices A and B awkwardly use the singular word method to refer to items of military equipment rather than to the use of such items. Also, a method of protecting would be more idiomatic than a method to protect in A or a method protecting in B. In B and D, as is incorrect; also, a protection in D has no noun for which it can logically substitute. Choice E is incomplete; used to protect would have been acceptable.

OG11-24的解释(注意CE选项的解释)

Logical predication + rhetorical construction

The underlined part of the sentence begins a phrase describing items of military equipment. It is awkward and inaccurate to describe items as a method. Replacing the underlined phrase with the participle protecting creates a modifying phrase that clearly explains the purpose of the items of military equipment.

AA method to protect is an awkward reference to items

BThe singular a method should not refer to the plural items, as a method protecting is not idiomatic

CCorrect. In this sentence, protecting properly introduces a modifying phrase revealing the purpose of the items.

DBeginning the phrase with as is incorrect; using the noun form protection creates wordiness

EThe infinitive to protect cannot act as an adjective modifying items; the participial form of the verb, protecting, is required

The correct answer is C.

3)现在分词在句尾用逗号隔开,必须要注意的一点是这个结构从来都没有失去过“做定语”的功能,只是优先做状语而已,即优先修饰到前面主句的主语和谓语。如下题如果前面主句的谓语是完成时态,那么既然已经完成了,drawing就无法再做其的伴随,所以只剩下做定语的功能。

例:OG12-21

Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are now drawing solid conclusions about how the human brain grows and how babies acquire language.

(A) Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood, are

(B) Neuroscientists, having amassed a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty years, and are

(C) Neuroscientists amassing a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood over the past twenty years, and are

(D) Neuroscientists have amassed a wealth of knowledge over the past twenty years about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,

(E) Neuroscientists have amassed, over the past twenty years, a wealth of knowledge about the brain and its development from birth to adulthood,

答案是AOGD项的解释: The final descriptor in present tense,now drawing conclusions....does not fit the opening clause, which is in present-prefect tense(have amassed a wealth)and seems to midify adulthood.

绿光先看看以上~~相关的题饭饭没有删~~希望能帮助解题吧~~饭饭再细细研究研究啊~~~

作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 22:59
谢谢饭饭,属于第二种,主系表!!!!^^
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-13 23:13
关于你第一个问题,我觉得yiayia同学说得很对
绿光mm看看这个:http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-648003-1-1.html
不止是你的困惑,当时我们也讨论过这样的问题 推荐#13楼yiayia的总结

第二个问题,你注意Manhattan给的例句:
Our system of Presidential elections favors states, such as Delaware, that by population are over-represented in the Electoral College.
有没有注意到那个"that",为什么不是"which"呢?想明白了么?
其实这里啊,你把 ", such as Delaware," 去掉,就看出来that直接接上states了,这里that不能换成which。

那么在你给的107D:
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
你来试试把中间那个你认为的"A short non-essential phrase" that "intervenes and is set off by comma"部分去掉看看:
107D'. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
看到了吧,这个which怎么看怎么不对....第一,which该换成that; 第二,语法上看应该就近修饰"air pollutants",但与逻辑意思不符

似乎最近听某个Manhattan instructor说,Manhattan这本书下次再版的时候,会修订一下“重心”。其实你看前面的基础部分(不是指最后几章advanced),已经足够解决SC绝大多数题目了。
其实我想说的是,请注意Manhattan给出这么长一节内容"exceptions to touch-rule",其实只是为了告诉考生,不能“无脑”排除,touch-rule不是100%。你可以说“具体问题具体分析”,但是,touch-rule就是一个一般情况下对于noun modifier都适用的准则。你自己揣摩所有的“特例”,根本不要去记它的patterns,你会发现,在这些特例里面,真的是不得不通融,而且这个“通融”非常make sense.  所以咱的思路应该是,遵守touch-rule,遇到那些“不得不通融”的例子的时候,去通融它。而应该是,“我现在拿到一道题,我首先看看这句话能不能通融”


1. 句末分词
****以前我对句末分词的理解是:
不加逗号,就近修饰。
加了逗号,修饰主语/整句,表示伴随:伴随动作/伴随结果。
这两天看了一些题目,发现对分词的用法有点抓不准了。
****MANHATTAN里是这样说的:
-Ing Form is flexible.
1. modify noun: the changing seasons
2. modify verb 及其subject
2. modify entire clause
****昨天忘了在哪儿看见的了,也是说分词很灵活,在句尾还可以表示对内容的补充,表示means等等(疑惑一)
那么,MANHATTAN的一个例句:
The problem was identified, using the lastest technology.
以前我看这个明显就知道是错的:既不能修饰problem表伴随,又不能修饰整句表结果。
但是现在我confused了…不是可以表示补充么?那我这个就是补充的一种方法啊?
另外,OG-30题,
For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
(A) a method to protect
(B) as a method protecting
(C) protecting
(D) as a protection of
(E) to protect
OG的解释是:In this sentence, protecting properly introduces a modifying phrase revealing the purpose of the items. 这又是什么用法?(疑惑二)
我觉得最近看的语法有点杂,彻底晕了……
2. 跳跃修饰:
MANHATTAN在ADVANCED -- MODIFIER章节里面,提到了一个exception of TOUCH RULE, 其中有一个就是说:
A short non-essential phrase intervenes and is set off by comma.
那么,OG-107:
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
OG说里面的which incorrectly and illogically modifies emission,这不是用逗号隔开了嘛…而且called... 明显是non-essential的,符合TOUCH RULE的exception,应该是可以跳跃修饰啊……
----------------------------
麻烦大家了,有点蒙…
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2012/2/13 22:37:35)



作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 23:24
关于你第一个问题,我觉得yiayia同学说得很对
绿光mm看看这个:http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-648003-1-1.html
不止是你的困惑,当时我们也讨论过这样的问题 推荐#13楼yiayia的总结

第二个问题,你注意Manhattan给的例句:
Our system of Presidential elections favors states, such as Delaware, that by population are over-represented in the Electoral College.
有没有注意到那个"that",为什么不是"which"呢?想明白了么?
其实这里啊,你把 ", such as Delaware," 去掉,就看出来that直接接上states了,这里that不能换成which。

那么在你给的107D:
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
你来试试把中间那个你认为的"A short non-essential phrase" that "intervenes and is set off by comma"部分去掉看看:
107D'. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
看到了吧,这个which怎么看怎么不对....第一,which该换成that; 第二,语法上看应该就近修饰"air pollutants",但与逻辑意思不符

似乎最近听某个Manhattan instructor说,Manhattan这本书下次再版的时候,会修订一下“重心”。其实你看前面的基础部分(不是指最后几章advanced),已经足够解决SC绝大多数题目了。
其实我想说的是,请注意Manhattan给出这么长一节内容"exceptions to touch-rule",其实只是为了告诉考生,不能“无脑”排除,touch-rule不是100%。你可以说“具体问题具体分析”,但是,touch-rule就是一个一般情况下对于noun modifier都适用的准则。你自己揣摩所有的“特例”,根本不要去记它的patterns,你会发现,在这些特例里面,真的是不得不通融,而且这个“通融”非常make sense.  所以咱的思路应该是,遵守touch-rule,遇到那些“不得不通融”的例子的时候,去通融它。而应该是,“我现在拿到一道题,我首先看看这句话能不能通融”


1. 句末分词
****以前我对句末分词的理解是:
不加逗号,就近修饰。
加了逗号,修饰主语/整句,表示伴随:伴随动作/伴随结果。
这两天看了一些题目,发现对分词的用法有点抓不准了。
****MANHATTAN里是这样说的:
-Ing Form is flexible.
1. modify noun: the changing seasons
2. modify verb 及其subject
2. modify entire clause
****昨天忘了在哪儿看见的了,也是说分词很灵活,在句尾还可以表示对内容的补充,表示means等等(疑惑一)
那么,MANHATTAN的一个例句:
The problem was identified, using the lastest technology.
以前我看这个明显就知道是错的:既不能修饰problem表伴随,又不能修饰整句表结果。
但是现在我confused了…不是可以表示补充么?那我这个就是补充的一种方法啊?
另外,OG-30题,
For members of the seventeenth-century Ashanti nation in Africa, animal-hide shields with wooden frames were essential items of military equipment, a method to protect warriors against enemy arrows and spears.
(A) a method to protect
(B) as a method protecting
(C) protecting
(D) as a protection of
(E) to protect
OG的解释是:In this sentence, protecting properly introduces a modifying phrase revealing the purpose of the items. 这又是什么用法?(疑惑二)
我觉得最近看的语法有点杂,彻底晕了……
2. 跳跃修饰:
MANHATTAN在ADVANCED -- MODIFIER章节里面,提到了一个exception of TOUCH RULE, 其中有一个就是说:
A short non-essential phrase intervenes and is set off by comma.
那么,OG-107:
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
OG说里面的which incorrectly and illogically modifies emission,这不是用逗号隔开了嘛…而且called... 明显是non-essential的,符合TOUCH RULE的exception,应该是可以跳跃修饰啊……
----------------------------
麻烦大家了,有点蒙…
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2012/2/13 22:37:35)



-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/13 23:13:48)


姐姐怎么总是会把这些东西记得这么清楚~
你别说,还真是!!是that~!^^释然了~
同意你说的,主要是不能无脑排除!记得ADVANCED的pronoun的部分,有五个判断指代正确不正确的方法,只有两个(gender,number)是绝对不能be tolerated,其他的都是depend on contexts。还说,如果你用pronoun这5点就排除了所有的,那么try to be less strict,错误选项肯定还有其他的~
做题的时候一定不能太牛角了……这两天看的东西呀~~~
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-13 23:38
我觉得吧,OG107非常典型,最近见到的好多SC题目,都是感觉从一个模子里出来的~
咱别看书,想一想,咱要描述一个东东X:
1. X is called A.
2. X is originally developed for B.
3. X can do C.
4. X is finding its uses in D.
其中第4点是咱要表达的主要意思。那么咱怎么造句?

思考如下:
主干必然是第4层意思。
X is finding its uses in D.
其他3层意思中,第1个 "called",描述的与X关系最近。这么理解吧,比如我呼叫楼主,叫“绿光”,而不是用“一位如何聪明如何勤奋在CD发了多少贴上站多少次的xx座的yy岁的zz地方的美女”,对吧。所以called直接接在X之后:
X called A is finding its uses in D.
然后就是第2层和第3层,这里就涉及“建筑美”
( ), X called A, ( ), is finding its uses in D.
我们可以在X called A (这是个名词结构,中心词仍然是X)的前面后面安装修饰成分,你会把两朵花都插在一边呢,还是一边一个?
肯定一边一个啊,否则你把两个修饰的分句连在一起,多么confusing,GMAT不会出现这样的。
然后,你就知道啦,前面的用past participle noun modifier,后面的用"which+clause",BINGO!

感兴趣的同学来做个游戏,造个句子
(your name) will beat GMAT.
然后想各种你能想到的modifiers,修饰你自己、GMAT以及这个动作,再把那些modifiers统统安插进这句话里面,看看出来什么样的句子
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-13 23:40
pat mm~我觉得这些东东就是那个instructor说会在将来削减的,太细了,考生不需要当作知识点去掌握,只是说针对某些同学可能产生的疑问来作出解释。


姐姐怎么总是会把这些东西记得这么清楚~
你别说,还真是!!是that~!^^释然了~
同意你说的,主要是不能无脑排除!记得ADVANCED的pronoun的部分,有五个判断指代正确不正确的方法,只有两个(gender,number)是绝对不能be tolerated,其他的都是depend on contexts。还说,如果你用pronoun这5点就排除了所有的,那么try to be less strict,错误选项肯定还有其他的~
做题的时候一定不能太牛角了……这两天看的东西呀~~~
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2012/2/13 23:24:45)


作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-13 23:47
我觉得吧,OG107非常典型,最近见到的好多SC题目,都是感觉从一个模子里出来的~
咱别看书,想一想,咱要描述一个东东X:
1. X is called A.
2. X is originally developed for B.
3. X can do C.
4. X is finding its uses in D.
其中第4点是咱要表达的主要意思。那么咱怎么造句?

思考如下:
主干必然是第4层意思。
X is finding its uses in D.
其他3层意思中,第1个 "called",描述的与X关系最近。这么理解吧,比如我呼叫楼主,叫“绿光”,而不是用“一位如何聪明如何勤奋在CD发了多少贴上站多少次的xx座的yy岁的zz地方的美女”,对吧。所以called直接接在X之后:
X called A is finding its uses in D.
然后就是第2层和第3层,这里就涉及“建筑美”
( ), X called A, ( ), is finding its uses in D.
我们可以在X called A (这是个名词结构,中心词仍然是X)的前面后面安装修饰成分,你会把两朵花都插在一边呢,还是一边一个?
肯定一边一个啊,否则你把两个修饰的分句连在一起,多么confusing,GMAT不会出现这样的。
然后,你就知道啦,前面的用past participle noun modifier,后面的用"which+clause",BINGO!

感兴趣的同学来做个游戏,造个句子
(your name) will beat GMAT.
然后想各种你能想到的modifiers,修饰你自己、GMAT以及这个动作,再把那些modifiers统统安插进这句话里面,看看出来什么样的句子
-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/13 23:38:02)



Born in China, which is a land of beauty, Miss Greenlight attempts to study English and logical reasoning very hard, and then to conquer GMAT, a test of both IQ and EQ.
本句中可是还有OG105的影子哈~
105的原句在主语前有两个modifier,修饰不明,但是本句中,第二个是which,只能向前修饰,木有ambiguity~~
另外:还有另外一道题: to do... , and then to do...
求批改~~
唉,得赶紧写作文了,这文笔!!
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-14 00:02
哈哈,好句子啊好句子!批改我不敢,我是坏坏地出个题目,从你那里借鉴下思路,算是brainstorming啦

“105的原句在主语前有两个modifier,修饰不明”
我觉得105的修饰很明确哦

相当于主语前面有内外两层的修饰
[In her book  *illustrations* (, which she carefully coordinated with her narratives,) ]  Beatrix Potter

里面那层是修饰"illustrations"
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-14 00:12
哈哈,好句子啊好句子!批改我不敢,我是坏坏地出个题目,从你那里借鉴下思路,算是brainstorming啦

“105的原句在主语前有两个modifier,修饰不明”
我觉得105的修饰很明确哦

相当于主语前面有内外两层的修饰
[In her book  *illustrations* (, which she carefully coordinated with her narratives,) ]  Beatrix Potter

里面那层是修饰"illustrations"
-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/14 0:02:01)


你写的这个是正确答案~~就是我借鉴的写法
我说的是原句A~但是我也说错了,不是主语前,是主语后~
OG: The participial phrase does not clearly modify the noun in the preceding phrase.
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-14 06:59
oh got cha~

哈哈,好句子啊好句子!批改我不敢,我是坏坏地出个题目,从你那里借鉴下思路,算是brainstorming啦

“105的原句在主语前有两个modifier,修饰不明”
我觉得105的修饰很明确哦

相当于主语前面有内外两层的修饰
[In her book  *illustrations* (, which she carefully coordinated with her narratives,) ]  Beatrix Potter

里面那层是修饰"illustrations"
-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/14 0:02:01)



你写的这个是正确答案~~就是我借鉴的写法
我说的是原句A~但是我也说错了,不是主语前,是主语后~
OG: The participial phrase does not clearly modify the noun in the preceding phrase.
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2012/2/14 0:12:36)


作者: yiayia    时间: 2012-2-14 12:56

同感,sc不能死记硬背所谓的语法规则,融通是关键!
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-15 23:11
今天再看,又不懂了。
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
baby姐说:
那么在你给的107D:
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
你来试试把中间那个你认为的"A short non-essential phrase" that "intervenes and is set off by comma"部分去掉看看:
107D'. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
看到了吧,这个which怎么看怎么不对....第一,which该换成that; 第二,语法上看应该就近修饰"air pollutants",但与逻辑意思不符

但是OG说的是which有指代emission的嫌疑,但是A没有。which应该也可以跳跃修饰,见P234 A new CEO has been hired who....的例子。
现在我有点新的看法,不知道对不对:
“a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which” 类似与 He had a way of dodging opponents that...这里面of结构放在别处很awkward,且本身很短,所以that就可以跳跃修饰了。
但是,“ A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which” 里面called proton-induced ... 明显是被隔开的,则不适于跳跃修饰原则(这个解释感觉不好);感觉yiayia的解释可以apply here:这里面technique离的太远了,跳跃困难。

我知道不能再牛角了现在,但是考虑到which/that的跳跃修饰还是比较important的一点,再来发问。
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-15 23:17
Or, is there some recommended threats about this point on the foreign forums?
作者: miss绿光    时间: 2012-2-15 23:19
PREP Q210: which:which倾向于指代裸奔的名词,或者在<核心词+简单修饰语>结构中,它可以跳过简单修饰语去指代核心词。但是,which绝对不可以在SVO结构中跳过V去指代主语;which在句尾指代意群结构时,也显得很awkward
作者: babybearmm    时间: 2012-2-16 07:39
绿光啊,永远不要去justify错误句子
一个错误句子,读者甲理解成A这个意思,读者乙理解成B这个意思。这两个读者相互争论自己的理解才是正确的,有意义么?错误的句子就是错误,正因为句子错误,作者没有表达清楚他应该表达的本意,所以才会造成读者的不同理解,就这个道理。所以,我们知道这个which错了,就够了,讨论一个错误的which应该指代什么,没有任何意义,non-issue。有这功夫该去justify正确句子。

OG就直接说D句子里which就近指代"emission",这没错,你理解也没错。
但是饭饭就问了,她说:“那我可以认为 'a technique called proton-induced X-ray emission' 是一个插入的 mission-critical modifier,根据Manhattan里,exceptions to the touch-rule的第一种情况,就是存在"mission-critical" modifier的时候我们可以跳跃修饰啊....那你怎么解释?"
所以说,当时我写那段话是有目的的。因为我要跟饭饭解释,什么叫做"mission-critical" modifier。我的思路是:判断一个modifier是否"mission-critical",就把那个modifier去掉看看。所以为了检验,我才把中间那部分", called proton-induced X-ray emission,"去掉,写成了D'句子,然后在D'句子里发现很明显的问题。
逻辑上,相当于OG提出一个argument,饭饭提出质疑,我顺着饭饭的思路得出矛盾,从而反驳饭饭的对OG的质疑,也就是说就是我在strengthen the argument.

关于你新的看法.....我更愿意强调"mission-critical",因为我发现很多同学都在纠结这个跳跃修饰的问题,什么时候允许,什么时候不允许。说白了,万变不离其宗,宗就是什么叫做"mission-critical"。
比如这里就有同学提问
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-598582-3-1.html

你再看看A:
____, a technique called proton-induced X-ray emission, which _____
这里"called proton-induced X-ray emission"就是missional-critical modifier。因为你假如把这部分去掉,你说"a technique",鬼知道"a technique"是啥。你必须要define,你说"a technique called proton-induced X-ray emission",这样读者才知道你说的是什么。所以这个句子里,which就跳跃了"mission-critical modifier",然后就近修饰"technique".

不要把CEO那个例子和"a way of dodging the opponents"混为一谈。"a way of dodging the opponents"就是在诠释什么叫做"mission-critical modifier".

今天再看,又不懂了。
Originally developed for detecting air pullutants, a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine,archaeology,and criminology.
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
baby姐说:
那么在你给的107D:
D. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
你来试试把中间那个你认为的"A short non-essential phrase" that "intervenes and is set off by comma"部分去掉看看:
107D'. A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destorying it
看到了吧,这个which怎么看怎么不对....第一,which该换成that; 第二,语法上看应该就近修饰"air pollutants",但与逻辑意思不符

但是OG说的是which有指代emission的嫌疑,但是A没有。which应该也可以跳跃修饰,见P234 A new CEO has been hired who....的例子。
现在我有点新的看法,不知道对不对:
“a technique called proton-included X-ray emission,which” 类似与 He had a way of dodging opponents that...这里面of结构放在别处很awkward,且本身很短,所以that就可以跳跃修饰了。
但是,“ A technique originally developed for detecting air pollutants, called proton-induced X-ray emission, which” 里面called proton-induced ... 明显是被隔开的,则不适于跳跃修饰原则(这个解释感觉不好);感觉yiayia的解释可以apply here:这里面technique离的太远了,跳跃困难。

我知道不能再牛角了现在,但是考虑到which/that的跳跃修饰还是比较important的一点,再来发问。
-- by 会员 miss绿光 (2012/2/15 23:11:27)




作者: 亲亲麦小兜    时间: 2012-5-21 22:53
mark了,明天读
作者: 小陈冲鸭    时间: 2018-11-21 10:43
miss绿光 发表于 2012-2-15 23:19
PREP Q210: which:which倾向于指代裸奔的名词,或者在&lt;核心词+简单修饰语&gt;结构中,它可以跳过简单修饰语 ...

请教一下最后一句话的意思!
which在句尾指代意群结构时,也显得很awkward
意群结构是指什么呢?能不能举个例子?




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