ChaseDream

标题: 求教 OG verbal-Q96 with独立主格 [打印本页]

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-8 15:47
标题: 求教 OG verbal-Q96 with独立主格
96.Floating in the waters of the equatorial Pacific, an array of buoys collects and transmits
data on long-term interactions between the ocean and the atmosphere, interactions that
affect global climate.
A. atmosphere, interactions that affect
B. atmosphere, with interactions affecting
C. atmosphere that affects
D. atmosphere that is affecting
E. atmosphere as affects

答案是A，想问问B答案。B的“with interactions……”是独立主格吗？如果是独立主格表伴随的话不是逻辑上一定是指向主句主语的吗？因为OG上的解释是The prepositional phrase, with . . . has noclear noun or noun phrase to attach to and is therefore ungrammatical.没有清楚的指代？？为什么？？

是不是出现“，with……”一定是with做独立主格呀？

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-8 19:35

自己顶顶~~

作者: 泾渭不凡 时间: 2012-2-9 12:05
标题: ~~O(∩_∩)O~~
with结构不仅仅是独立主格啊~~~

这里有斑斑bat的总结神贴~~

http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-581483-1-1.html?SearchText=with

饭饭就不总结提炼了啊~~

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-9 21:17

with结构不仅仅是独立主格啊~~~

这里有斑斑bat的总结神贴~~

http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-581483-1-1.html?SearchText=with

饭饭就不总结提炼了啊~~

-- by 会员泾渭不凡 (2012/2/9 12:05:09)

哇~饭饭真好~这么好的帖子都给你挖到了，太棒了~先飞个吻慢慢来看

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-9 21:55
这题其实是appositive。其实我觉得，appositive的句子见多了，读起来就会有一种“节奏感”，就好比中文当中的排比句读起来产生的“节奏感”一样。

__________on long-term interactions between the ocean and the atmosphere, interactions that ___________.
就说当你读到这句话，读到",interactions that"的时候，能感觉到仿佛"interactions"是个回声，你前面读到了某个interactions，于是这里把interactions提拉出来进一步解释。这就是appositive，必须用appositive来明确表示逻辑意思
——我们的逻辑意思是，上面浅黄色的那一块，和浅粉色的那一块儿，都指的是一个东东，都指的是the INTERACTIONS.

如果你用with，就体现不出这样的逻辑意思. i.e.体现不出“上面浅黄色的那一块，和浅粉色的那一块儿，都指的是一个东东，都指的是the INTERACTIONS.”
再说C/D, "that"，读到这里第一反应就是，就近指代atmosphere，显然不合逻辑。

.....
Anyway，原句的逻辑意思只能用appositive表示，所以我晃一眼，appositive只有A，所以我都不用看其他选项就锁定A.

96.Floating in the waters of the equatorial Pacific, an array of buoys collects and transmits
data on long-term interactions between the ocean and the atmosphere, interactions that
affect global climate.
A. atmosphere, interactions that affect
B. atmosphere, with interactions affecting
C. atmosphere that affects
D. atmosphere that is affecting
E. atmosphere as affects

答案是A，想问问B答案。B的“with interactions……”是独立主格吗？如果是独立主格表伴随的话不是逻辑上一定是指向主句主语的吗？因为OG上的解释是The prepositional phrase, with . . . has noclear noun or noun phrase to attach to and is therefore ungrammatical.没有清楚的指代？？为什么？？

是不是出现“，with……”一定是with做独立主格呀？

-- by 会员 teddybearj4 (2012/2/8 15:47:50)

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-9 21:57
再说下，当你有这种“回声”感的时候，一般就两种情况——1. appositive 2. parallel structures
然后其实很好区别这俩。

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-9 22:11
哈~baby姐又一针见血了！回声和节奏感的比喻很恰当啊，明白了！！

这题同位语倒是感觉上好理解，就是那个该死的with，我现在对着它简直就是满肚子的疑问不知道怎么说啊！才搞清楚with做独立主格的情况，但是就发现特别多疑似with只做单纯prep的题目又绞在一起，弄得我是云里雾里啊！看来我得多挖几个with的题目来找找规律~

这题其实是appositive。其实我觉得，appositive的句子见多了，读起来就会有一种“节奏感”，就好比中文当中的排比句读起来产生的“节奏感”一样。

__________on long-term interactions between the ocean and the atmosphere, interactionsthat ___________.
就说当你读到这句话，读到",interactions that"的时候，能感觉到仿佛"interactions"是个回声，你前面读到了某个interactions，于是这里把interactions提拉出来进一步解释。这就是appositive，必须用appositive来明确表示逻辑意思
——我们的逻辑意思是，上面浅黄色的那一块，和浅粉色的那一块儿，都指的是一个东东，都指的是the INTERACTIONS.

如果你用with，就体现不出这样的逻辑意思. i.e.体现不出“上面浅黄色的那一块，和浅粉色的那一块儿，都指的是一个东东，都指的是the INTERACTIONS.”
再说C/D, "that"，读到这里第一反应就是，就近指代atmosphere，显然不合逻辑。

.....
Anyway，原句的逻辑意思只能用appositive表示，所以我晃一眼，appositive只有A，所以我都不用看其他选项就锁定A.

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/9 21:55:41)

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-9 22:21
嗯，你可以体会一下正确句子里的with，都makes LITERAL sense
错误句子里的with都不makes sense.
其实大部分情况下，这都是meaning层面的，不是grammar层面的

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-9 22:26

嗯，你可以体会一下正确句子里的with，都makes LITERAL sense
错误句子里的with都不makes sense.
其实大部分情况下，这都是meaning层面的，不是grammar层面的

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/9 22:21:00)

嗯嗯！记住了，谢谢baby姐！

作者: bob9603 时间: 2012-2-10 10:01

嗯，你可以体会一下正确句子里的with，都makes LITERAL sense
错误句子里的with都不makes sense.
其实大部分情况下，这都是meaning层面的，不是grammar层面的

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/9 22:21:00)

小菜又看到您了，又是with的问题，我怎么看着B读起来的意思也挺通的呢，with引导的独立主格修饰前句~（ps：我的with独立主格确实还么有入门啊前辈，肿么办）

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-10 11:07
这句话的同位语结构，就是要表达前面说的“即”“等于".....这样的意思，而with无法表现这样的意思。

来个简单的例子吧：
I have read the Three Kingdoms, a Chinese historical novel.
这里a Chinese historical novel=Three Kingdoms
所以有这个同位语结构，相当于用"a Chinese historical novel"对"the Three Kingdoms"做出诠释。
你不能说：
I have read the Three Kingdoms, with a Chinese historical novel. (INCORRECT)
这个从意思上不对。
We CANNOT say that "a Chinese historical novel" is with "the Three Kingdoms"; Rather, "a Chinese historical novel" is indeed "the Three Kingdoms".
On the other hand, it's illogical to assume that "with a Chinese historical novel" is an adverbial modifier that modifies the whole preceding clause "I have read the Three Kingdoms". Try it on:
I have read Book A, with Book A. (INCORRECT) This sentence sounds funny, isn't it?

If we really wanted to use "with", we could say, for example,
I have read the Three Kingdoms with pictures.
I have read the Three Kingdoms with illustrations of ______.
Note that we do not have commas here.
So, what I mean here is that we should pay careful attention to the LITERAL meaning of the tiny word "with". The book could be with pictures, with illustrations, or whatever appropriate, but the book could NOT be with itself.

On the other hand, we could say,
I have read the Three Kingdoms, with my mind focused.
Here, "with my mind focused" is an adverbial phrase that modifies the whole action - "I have read the Three Kingdoms".
To try it on, ask yourself: How did you read the book? Answer: "with my mind focused"
So here the word "with" does make sense.

这道题同样：
前面是一个怎样怎样的interactions，后面同位语，继续说这是一个如何如何的interactions，前后说的是同样interactions. 所以只能用同位语，不能用with—— You cannot say that the interactions are with themselves.

嗯，你可以体会一下正确句子里的with，都makes LITERAL sense
错误句子里的with都不makes sense.
其实大部分情况下，这都是meaning层面的，不是grammar层面的

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/9 22:21:00)

-- by 会员 bob9603 (2012/2/10 10:01:10)

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-10 11:10
"我怎么看着B读起来的意思也挺通的呢，with引导的独立主格修饰前句"

绝大多数meaning issues，都是grammatically correct but logically incorrect/ambiguous
所以要从意思出发。语法不能帮你解决全部modifiers的问题

作者: elisepoon 时间: 2015-4-20 20:47

babybearmm 发表于 2012-2-10 11:10
"我怎么看着B读起来的意思也挺通的呢，with引导的独立主格修饰前句"绝大多数meaning issues，都是grammatic ...

同意！

欢迎光临 ChaseDream (https://forum.chasedream.com/)