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标题: so...as to be...逻辑主语问题，求教·········& [打印本页]

作者: joshurman 时间: 2012-1-31 23:16
标题: so...as to be...逻辑主语问题，求教·········&
以下是引用braveMBA在2003-9-23 21:54:00的发言：
我自己的感觉：但是so small as to be impractical of study一定是不好的方式，这似乎同so ... as to关系不大，最主要的原因是逻辑意思表达有严重缺陷，而a tornado is so small that such a study has not been practial.很好地表达了意思，因为这是一个典型的so ... as to逻辑主语合理性的问题，因为so ... as to be ....中的be的主语一定是句子主语，也就是a tornado ，代入后是不正确的，怎么能说a tornado be impractical of study呢，应该是a study be impractical of study。所以还是要从逻辑意思上判断。我们千万不能掉进了ETS的陷阱，也不能使用那些绝对化的标准，而是要sentence correction!

我不太明白，为什么不能说 a tornado be impractical of study? a tornado 不能 be impractical of study 吗？我觉得可以啊

the subject is so general as to be impractical of study 这句话对不对呢？请给详细分析一下谢谢！

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-1 06:16
我个人觉得，你说的对，"so small as to be impractical of study"是合适的，基于以下Ron的解说，跟这个例子类似：
I am so ugly as to be viscerally repulsive towomen.
但鉴于braveMBA前辈持相反态度，我不敢100%确定....就不误导你了，直接贴Ron大神的解说。
呼唤讨论~~~~

http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/so-that-such-that-so-as-to-t13833.html （强烈推荐！！太强大了..）

以下是摘录：
“so as to” is an interesting construction. i don't think thatgmac likes it very much -- i've never seen it in an officially correct answer-- but i think the main distinction is that it's used to describe indirectintentions.
for instance, the example above isn't great because you are calling this persondirectly to invite him, so you should use one of the earlier twoversions.

on the other hand, consider the following: Joebought a gym membership so as to become more attractive to women.
this is what i mean by indirect intention. obviously, the act of buyinga gym membership itself is not going to make joe instantly more attractive towomen (women do not swoon over a man's gym membership card). instead, there areplenty of implied intermediate steps between “by a gym membership” and “be moreattractive”; the use of “so as to” implies that there are such intermediatesteps in the process.

once again, this is a very writerly difference. i think it's fun to try toexplicate it -- i've definitely never thought about these things consciouslybefore -- but i can guarantee that you will not be tested on this kind ofdifference.
-----------------
ingeneral, you don't use so ADJ as to VERB unless the VERB describes somesort of state/condition. i.e., if the verb is an action verb, thisconstruction generally isn't used.
for instance,
i am so ugly as to be viscerally repulsive to women. --> this works, because the verb “to be” describes astate/condition.
i am so ugly as to repel women on sight. --> you generallywouldn't see this in good writing, as “repel” is an action verb; the sentencewould probably be written as i am so ugly that i repel women on sight

-------------------------------
In OG, it is because ambiguityin meaning.
Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers withunpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children. => INCORRECT
Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers withunpaid leave so that they can care for sick or newborn children. => CORRECT
-by student

thisis a whole different issue. in the construction “so as to”, there is no changeof subject, and so there's an implication that the subject is the same as thesubject of the previous clause/action.

that's a big issue here, because the only subjects of actions in the previousclauses are "congress" and "certain employers". therefore,the sentence is implying that one of these two entities is actually going tocare for sick or newborn children! not good.
the sentence needs to be written in a way that changes the subject..

以下是引用braveMBA在2003-9-23 21:54:00的发言：
我自己的感觉：但是so small as to be impractical of study一定是不好的方式，这似乎同so ... as to关系不大，最主要的原因是逻辑意思表达有严重缺陷，而a tornado is so small that such a study has not been practial.很好地表达了意思，因为这是一个典型的so ... as to逻辑主语合理性的问题，因为so ... as to be ....中的be的主语一定是句子主语，也就是a tornado ，代入后是不正确的，怎么能说a tornado be impractical of study呢，应该是a study be impractical of study。所以还是要从逻辑意思上判断。我们千万不能掉进了ETS的陷阱，也不能使用那些绝对化的标准，而是要sentence correction!

我不太明白，为什么不能说 a tornado be impractical of study? a tornado 不能 be impractical of study 吗？我觉得可以啊

the subject is so general as to be impractical of study 这句话对不对呢？请给详细分析一下谢谢！

-- by 会员 joshurman (2012/1/31 23:16:51)

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-4 16:09
刚遇上prep08-Q174，so adj. as to打败so adj. that 的题了，不明白搜到了baby姐帖的Ron的解释，真的是说到点子上，说到心坎里了呀！！！

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-4 16:45
有个学生编了各种so (adj) that, so (adj) as to的例子问Ron
那个讨论太强悍了

作者: teddybearj4 时间: 2012-2-4 16:57

有个学生编了各种so (adj) that, so (adj) as to的例子问Ron
那个讨论太强悍了

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/4 16:45:08)

我看了呀！！！太强了！！！我觉得能想到，并且还列出来问的人同样了不起啊！！！

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-4 17:12
我终于知道这题为什么"so small as to be impractical of study"是错的了！

问题不是出在so ... as to
两个问题：

一个是"be impractical of study"

be impractical to do sth.
be impractical for sth. （形容人？见下面例句）
以上搭配
没见过"be impractical of sth."

线上字典的例句 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impractical

Although

researchers

years,

has

been

impractical

construct

them

subtractively.

— *adj*
1.	not practical or workable: an impractical solution
2.	not given to practical matters or gifted with practical skills: he is intelligent but too impractical for commercial work

这里，我觉得应该是第一个意思，应该把of改成to "be impractical to study"

另外一点，这题正确答案是A选项：
Unlike a hurricane, which can be observed from within, a tornado is so small that such a study has not been practical.

注意到划线部分时态，现在完成时，表达了“迄今为止”尚未实现的意思。
E选项"so small as to be impractical of study"，就丢掉了现在完成时能够表现的“迄今为止”的含义！

SC里，当且仅当A选项意思illogical or ambiguous的时候，才允许修改句意。

-- by 会员 joshurman (2012/1/31 23:16:51)

作者: zhaoyiping 时间: 2012-2-5 00:20
啊，那个讨论在哪啊，我最近也超烦这个问题。。。能不能传个地址给我？谢谢啦!

作者: zhaoyiping 时间: 2012-2-5 00:21

有个学生编了各种so (adj) that, so (adj) as to的例子问Ron
那个讨论太强悍了

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/4 16:45:08)

刚忘记引用了。。。能否给我个讨论的地址？谢谢！

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-5 09:47
第一楼有
http://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/so-that-such-that-so-as-to-t13833.html （强烈推荐！！太强大了..）

有个学生编了各种so (adj) that, so (adj) as to的例子问Ron
那个讨论太强悍了

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/4 16:45:08)

刚忘记引用了。。。能否给我个讨论的地址？谢谢！

-- by 会员 zhaoyiping (2012/2/5 0:21:43)

作者: zhongshanlh 时间: 2012-4-22 09:40
哈哈，Ron对于这个人的问题一上来就是一句 oh my gosh。。。

作者: zhongshanlh 时间: 2012-4-22 11:39
baby姐原谅我过了好久才翻到这个帖子。。。
对于你提出的第一个问题be impractical of study的问题，个人表示同意。
有几个小点：
1.so adj as to主语问题
虽然Ron在那个他自己都oh my gosh的帖子中没有明确提出来so adj as to的主语问题，但是我也比较同意braveMBA前辈的说法，认为so adj as to的主语应当同前面句子的主语是一致的。不知道对于这个问题你是怎么看的？
2.就是你说的【应该把of改成to "be impractical to study"】
我也认同是这里的be impractical的搭配问题，也同意要把后面的of如果改为to的话就通顺了，但是有一点啊，看完Ron的那个oh my gosh的帖子，Ron自己也在帖子中强调对于so adj as to这个结构后面的动词要是描述的一种state或者condition而不应当是一个直接的action verb。
所以我看到这个以后就产生了想法，是不是改为be impractical to be studied 会更为合适一些？
虽然我们也经常表达这样的句子the problem is too hard to study，这里这个study的动作发出者不是problem，而是其他人，而且这个study是一个action verb，所以我就不确定在上面的这个句子中因为主语问题以及action verb 问题，改为 be impractical to be studied会不会更合适一些？
3.你说的【be impractical for sth. （形容人？见下面例句）】
个人认为表达的应当是说A be impractical for B中对于B或者做B这件事情，A是不切实际不可行的，不一定非要用于描述人吧？比如说this protocol is impractical for this kind of analysis(自己造的句子，不知道是否合适）
关于上面3个小问题想听听baby姐的意见

我终于知道这题为什么"so small as to be impractical of study"是错的了！

问题不是出在so ... as to
两个问题：

一个是"be impractical of study"

be impractical to do sth.
be impractical for sth. （形容人？见下面例句）
以上搭配
没见过"be impractical of sth."

线上字典的例句 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impractical

Although

researchers

years,

has

been

impractical

construct

them

subtractively.

— *adj*
1.	not practical or workable: an impractical solution
2.	not given to practical matters or gifted with practical skills: he is intelligent but too impractical for commercial work

-- by 会员 joshurman (2012/1/31 23:16:51)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/2/4 17:12:57)

作者: yaosiyue 时间: 2019-1-21 07:55

teddybearj4 发表于 2012-2-4 16:09
刚遇上prep08-Q174，so adj. as to打败so  adj. that 的题了，不明白搜到了baby姐帖的Ron的解释，真的 ...

还是不太能理解为什么Q174 不选so that 那个选项，可以帮忙解释一下吗

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