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标题: OG-50过去完成时到底什么时候该用，什么时候不该用？做题总是跟manhattan说的不同 [打印本页]

作者: 很邻家 时间: 2012-1-21 09:40
标题: OG-50过去完成时到底什么时候该用，什么时候不该用？做题总是跟manhattan说的不同
50. according to some analysts, the gains in the stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy will avoid the recession that many had feared earlier in the year and instead come in for a "soft landing", followed by a gradual increase in business activity.
manhattan上说（可能是我理解的不对），当有明显的时间先后顺序的时候就不用过去完成时，而且这个担心的动作也没有对后面发生的动作造成直接的影响呀？为什么要用过去完成时呢?不知道自己哪里理解出了问题，谁能帮帮我呀？

作者: 很邻家 时间: 2012-1-21 09:42
而且，我以前做题的时候，看到had done都去找一般过去时，如果找不到的话，说明had done没法跟一个过去的时间比较，所以就错，这个方法一直挺管用的，可是这句话也没有一般过去时呀？

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-1-21 10:14
过去完成时是和一个过去时的时间点比较
这个过去的时间点，可以用过去时态表示（即某个过去的动作发生那个时间点，就是你以前一直用的方法），也可以用某个表示时间的词表示，例如
By 1990, .... 这后面肯定要跟过去完成时，因为1990就是过去时间点，在此之前就要用过去完成时。(OG或者verbal 2nd里面有类似例子，你留意下）
这句话Earlier this year就是过去时间点，句意是说在这个时间以前或者一直持续到"earlier this year"，所以用had feared；如果句意是说earlier this year这段时间人们feared，那就是用feared。这两种语法上都对，看句意。
btw：以上Manhattan讲到过，可能在后面几章Advanced部分，或者在习题部分，我当初也是verb form错了很多，然后重新细读了Manhattan就明白了

而且，我以前做题的时候，看到had done都去找一般过去时，如果找不到的话，说明had done没法跟一个过去的时间比较，所以就错，这个方法一直挺管用的，可是这句话也没有一般过去时呀？

-- by 会员很邻家 (2012/1/21 9:42:59)

作者: 很邻家 时间: 2012-1-21 10:20

过去完成时是和一个过去时的时间点比较
这个过去的时间点，可以用过去时态表示（即某个过去的动作发生那个时间点，就是你以前一直用的方法），也可以用某个表示时间的词表示，例如
By 1990, .... 这后面肯定要跟过去完成时，因为1990就是过去时间点，在此之前就要用过去完成时。(OG或者verbal 2nd里面有类似例子，你留意下）
这句话Earlier this year就是过去时间点，句意是说在这个时间以前或者一直持续到"earlier this year"，所以用had feared；如果句意是说earlier this year这段时间人们feared，那就是用feared。这两种语法上都对，看句意。
btw：以上Manhattan讲到过，可能在后面几章Advanced部分，或者在习题部分，我当初也是verb form错了很多，然后重新细读了Manhattan就明白了

-- by 会员很邻家 (2012/1/21 9:42:59)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/21 10:14:42)

哦哦！我好像是明白了，earlier this year 是不是修饰recession的呀？
还有，你说的By 1990...那个我在manhattan看到过，By 1945, the us had been at war for several yeas. 我理解的是过去完成时表示持续一段时间呢，看来我这个就理解错了。

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-1-21 10:28
对，就这个By 1945的例子！
Manhattan讲用完成时的两种含义：事情持续到某个时间点或者事情虽然结束但是"has direct bearing on ...."
过去完成时、现在完成时都按这个思路来套，关键是找那个时间点是现在还是过去

我个人理解
the recession that many had feared earlier this year
这句话，that (many had feared earlier this year) 作为essential noun modifier修饰recession
然后这里面，earlier this year作为时间状语修饰动词had feared
就好比the apple that I had eaten before 9 am this morning

[/quote]哦哦！我好像是明白了，earlier this year 是不是修饰recession的呀？
还有，你说的By 1990...那个我在manhattan看到过，By 1945, the us had been at war for several yeas. 我理解的是过去完成时表示持续一段时间呢，看来我这个就理解错了。

-- by 会员很邻家 (2012/1/21 10:20:41)

[/quote]

作者: 很邻家 时间: 2012-1-21 12:47
这下清楚多了，谢谢谢谢咯~！

作者: Royzhang0929 时间: 2012-2-14 11:55
关于这题还有一些疑问，万望帮忙解答~~According to some analysts, the gains inthe stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy will avoid therecession that many had feared earlier the year and instead come in for a “soft landing,” followed by agradual increase in business activity.
(A) that the economy will avoid the recession that many had feared earlierin the year and
instead come
(B) in the economy to avoid the recession, what many feared earlier in theyear, rather to come
(C) in the economy’s ability to avoidthe recession something earlier in the year many had feared and instead to come
(D) in the economy to avoid the recession many were fearing earlier in theyear, and rather
to come
(E) that the economy will avoid the recession that was feared earlier thisyear by many, with it
instead coming

首先是D, OG官方解释是the recession must be followed by that, 是说定语从句中的that是不可以省略的吗？还有就是 B中的解释是 rather to come does not complete the second part of the sentence idiomatically ? 这个怎么理解呢？万分感谢哈~~

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-14 12:58
1. 一般说来that-clause那个that都不能省略，特殊情况的话，我在我日记贴#169探讨了

2. 如果按照D，这个句子的主干：
The gains reflect confidence in the economy to avoid X, and to come Y.
是说没有"confidence in sb. to do sth."这样的搭配，所以non-idiomatic

作者: yiayia 时间: 2012-2-14 13:04
B选项 rather是想表示和前面内容的转折，但是rather本身不是连词，因此不能连接to的两个短语把~

作者: Royzhang0929 时间: 2012-2-14 14:06
牛津高阶说rather的确只有adv词性，但是有一个用法是这样的used to introduce an idea that is different or opposite to the idea that you have stated previously: The walls were not white, but rather a sort of dirty grey.

这样说明还可以连接两个adj的
那么可不可以理解成，只有but rather没有and rather呢？

作者: Royzhang0929 时间: 2012-2-14 14:07
感谢baby姐，这次懂了~

作者: 嘻嘻娃娃 时间: 2012-2-28 21:01
补充一点吧也算是我看到的比较明白的解释
The key in this sentence is the modifier 'growing' because it suggests that the 'growing' has been continuing into the present (which means that it started in the past). The economists had feared the recession before this growing started but once the growing started (in the simple past) they stopped fearing the recession. So the fearing has to be in the past perfect tense.

我觉得挺对的

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-2-29 04:18
wow~great point! Thank you!

补充一点吧也算是我看到的比较明白的解释
The key in this sentence is the modifier 'growing' because it suggests that the 'growing' has been continuing into the present (which means that it started in the past). The economists had feared the recession before this growing started but once the growing started (in the simple past) they stopped fearing the recession. So the fearing has to be in the past perfect tense.

我觉得挺对的

-- by 会员嘻嘻娃娃 (2012/2/28 21:01:15)

作者: baixuefei0524 时间: 2012-3-26 22:24
标题: 首次发帖，请教一下
因为对OG12 SC50中的earlier in the year 十分不解，所以看了好几个相关帖子，不过现在仍不完全理解。望指教看了不少观点，感觉babybearmm的很有道理，现引用一下
“过去完成时是和一个过去时的时间点比较
这个过去的时间点，可以用过去时态表示（即某个过去的动作发生那个时间点，就是你以前一直用的方法），也可以用某个表示时间的词表示，例如
By 1990, .... 这后面肯定要跟过去完成时，因为1990就是过去时间点，在此之前就要用过去完成时。(OG或者verbal 2nd里面有类似例子，你留意下）
这句话Earlier this year就是过去时间点，句意是说在这个时间以前或者一直持续到"earlier this year"，所以用had feared；如果句意是说earlier this year这段时间人们feared，那就是用feared。这两种语法上都对，看句意。”

那个by 1990 的例子是By 1945, the us had been at war for several yeas. 这个句子确实很符合，因为1）有过去时间点2）有过去发生的动作延续到（for several years)过去时间点(1990).
但是，在SC50这个例子中，如果我没理解错BABYBEARDREAM同学的观点的话，过去时间点是earlier in the year,问题是有什么理由推断fear这个动作一直延续到这个时间点？或者这个动作发生在这个时间点之前而不是发生在这个时间点呢呢

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-3-27 02:46
"问题是有什么理由推断fear这个动作一直延续到这个时间点？或者这个动作发生在这个时间点之前而不是发生在这个时间点呢呢"
This could be read from the original sentence. For every SC question, we should first figure out the intended meaning from the original sentence. If the original meaning is logical and unambiguous, then we must stick to the original meaning. IF AND ONLY IF the meaning in the original sentence is illogical or ambiguous, we can change the original meaning.

Here, the meaning in the original sentence makes sense. Therefore, we do not want to change the meaning. (As we know, verb tense is really a meaning-based issue. )

According to some analysts, the gains in the stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy
will avoid the recession that many had feared earlier in the year and instead come in for a “soft landing,”
followed by a gradual increase in business activity.

My usual approach to a complicated verb tense problem is to draw a diagram: one-dimensional graph with only time axis

--------------------|------|---|------------|------------------> t
A B' B 0

t=0 is present
A is the beginning of this year
B is some unspecified time within the range (A, t=0)

"growing confidence" - that means the confidence starts from some time in the past and is still going on, i.e. "growing confidence" starts from B and extends all the way to the future.

From the logical standpoint, these two events "confidence" and "fear" are mutually exclusive, i.e. you can not have these two events simultaneously. Therefore, "the recession that many had feared earlier in the year" must end at B or at some time (B') earlier than B.

See? An event finished at a past time-point (B or B').... Therefore we have to use the past perfect tense. I think as soon as you really understand the meaning in the sentence, you can figure out the verb tense.

因为对OG12 SC50中的earlier in the year 十分不解，所以看了好几个相关帖子，不过现在仍不完全理解。望指教看了不少观点，感觉babybearmm的很有道理，现引用一下
“过去完成时是和一个过去时的时间点比较
这个过去的时间点，可以用过去时态表示（即某个过去的动作发生那个时间点，就是你以前一直用的方法），也可以用某个表示时间的词表示，例如
By 1990, .... 这后面肯定要跟过去完成时，因为1990就是过去时间点，在此之前就要用过去完成时。(OG或者verbal 2nd里面有类似例子，你留意下）
这句话Earlier this year就是过去时间点，句意是说在这个时间以前或者一直持续到"earlier this year"，所以用had feared；如果句意是说earlier this year这段时间人们feared，那就是用feared。这两种语法上都对，看句意。”

那个by 1990 的例子是By 1945, the us had been at war for several yeas. 这个句子确实很符合，因为1）有过去时间点2）有过去发生的动作延续到（for several years)过去时间点(1990).
但是，在SC50这个例子中，如果我没理解错BABYBEARDREAM同学的观点的话，过去时间点是earlier in the year,问题是有什么理由推断fear这个动作一直延续到这个时间点？或者这个动作发生在这个时间点之前而不是发生在这个时间点呢呢

-- by 会员 baixuefei0524 (2012/3/26 22:24:39)

作者: babybearmm 时间: 2012-3-27 02:49
For verb tense, you may want to check out the following thread
http://forum.chasedream.com/GMAT_SC/thread-689762-1-1.html

作者: baixuefei0524 时间: 2012-3-27 11:04
多谢BABY姐

作者: abjure 时间: 2012-4-6 22:09
瞎翻，还找到了一个自己想要解释的题，邻家妹，你为啥不用 og12-50来标题，害我都没搜索到这个好贴。

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