独立主格结构求总结呼唤大牛,斑竹, - ChaseDream

我看了之前的帖子,总感觉很散乱,看了之后也是一头雾水,感觉有的讨论对PREP语法笔记的总结也持否定态度.所以我自己看了看曼哈顿,虽然简短,也若有所误,好像没有那麽复杂.

独立主格两种情况
N. + N. Modifier
1. 表伴随
His head held high, Owen walked out of the store.
2. 表结果
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

With + N
1. 表伴随
Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.
2. 我看讨论题有人说也表原因,我想表伴随也应该包括原因结果吧,我不确定,

总体来讲,有几句话我觉得值得深究,
1. Absolute phrases do not have to modify what they touch, they modify the main clause in some way.
2. The absolute phrase construction gives us a way to link a second sentence to the first.
3. At the end of a sentence, a result of the main clause can be written with either an absolute phrase of an -ing form.
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

总体来讲,我现在的想法是独立主格不管怎样,修饰的是前面的整个句子(是否修饰分句我不敢确定), 所以逻辑主语是一定要考虑的.
我其实就是想如果有大牛能够帮忙把这个语法点进行一个总结,那是再好不过了,能给我们这些同学帮助很大,谢谢大牛,

我又一句总结,不知道对不对,不敢怎么说,独立主格结构都是表伴随(结果,动作,原因...), 如果逻辑上和主句不同,不能表示伴随,那就是错的,不知道这样理解对不对,求批评.

-- by 会员 wtx2490467 (2012/1/16 22:47:21)

我觉得你总结得很赞！
补充两点关于独立主格（也是来自Manhattan）：
1. A phrase that consists of a noun and a noun modifier and that modifies
a whole clause or sentence. (p.291 Glossary)
就说独立主格并非要求跟主句的主语一致，独立主格的noun不要求是主句主语（his head 不等于Owen，results不等于scientists），但和主句有逻辑关系。

2. 关于独立主格或者v ing形式在后面表结果
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

在Absolute Phrase一节中，作者讲In some cases, you can use an -Ing form (with a comma) in place of an absolute phrase.
就说并非所有独立主格都能换成V ing形式表达。这个some怎么理解？在讲present participle那部分的时候书中说
It (the Ing form) can even modify an entire clause as above, as long as the entire clause converted into a noun phrase could
function as the subject of the verb that is now in -Ing form. （强烈推荐细读这节,p 91）
就说前面这个分句作为整体，可以归纳为一个名词——results，而results又可以作为suggest的主语。这种情况下，results suggest...这种独立主格结构可以用v-ing结构替换。
这种前面分句可以归纳为一个抽象名词的情况，比较典型的，我觉得有results/report/observation/finding/trend这一类（这种通常Absolute Phrase里的noun modifier是that从句，即noun+that clause)，还包括increase这种（随便编个例子，"今年产量较去年增长多少多少，increase that leads to ..."或者作为ing形式的"今年产量较去年增长多少多少, leading to ..."，即前面那个句子可以归纳为increase这个词）。

另：表原因的例子有吗，我在Manhattan上没找到，可否举一个....

我看了之前的帖子,总感觉很散乱,看了之后也是一头雾水,感觉有的讨论对PREP语法笔记的总结也持否定态度.所以我自己看了看曼哈顿,虽然简短,也若有所误,好像没有那麽复杂.

独立主格两种情况
N. + N. Modifier
1. 表伴随
His head held high, Owen walked out of the store.
2. 表结果
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

With + N
1. 表伴随
Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.
2. 我看讨论题有人说也表原因,我想表伴随也应该包括原因结果吧,我不确定,

总体来讲,有几句话我觉得值得深究,
1. Absolute phrases do not have to modify what they touch, they modify the main clause in some way.
2. The absolute phrase construction gives us a way to link a second sentence to the first.
3. At the end of a sentence, a result of the main clause can be written with either an absolute phrase of an -ing form.
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

总体来讲,我现在的想法是独立主格不管怎样,修饰的是前面的整个句子(是否修饰分句我不敢确定), 所以逻辑主语是一定要考虑的.
我其实就是想如果有大牛能够帮忙把这个语法点进行一个总结,那是再好不过了,能给我们这些同学帮助很大,谢谢大牛,

我又一句总结,不知道对不对,不敢怎么说,独立主格结构都是表伴随(结果,动作,原因...), 如果逻辑上和主句不同,不能表示伴随,那就是错的,不知道这样理解对不对,求批评.

-- by 会员 wtx2490467 (2012/1/16 22:47:21)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/17 16:35:14)

再接着补充一个例子吧，欢迎大家讨论纠错

The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result expected by Wall Street analysts.
这里的独立主格(absolute phrase=noun+noun modifier）中，noun modifier是past participle.
以下两个改动后的句子是错误的：

Wrong Version#1：
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, expecting by Wall Street analysts.
如果这么说，就要求"result (即the result that the revenue this year is 30% higher than last) expects ...." 这个表达make logical sense，但显然不满足, result不能是expect的主语。

Wrong Version#2：
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, expected by Wall Street analysts.
这个句子也是错误的！这里我觉得比较tricky，就是past participle (expected by ...) 只能作为noun modifier，而不能作为verb modifier！（详见Manhattan SC p. 84 Noun Modifier的列表，对比p 89-90的Verb Modifier的列表，比较一下present participle和past participle的区别）
即如果这么表达，expected by Wall Street analysts必须是名词修饰语，而名词修饰语一般是修饰最近的名词。而这句话，并不存在一个符合逻辑的修饰对象。
看下面这句：
Expected by Wall Street analysts, the result shows that the revenue this year is 30% higher than last.
这个句子就是正确的，expected by Wall Street analysts 修饰后面的主语the result.
再看这个：
Expected by Wall Street analysts, the CEO announced that the revenue this year is 30% higher than last.
这个句子就不对了！expected by Wall Street analysts 修饰后面的主语the CEO，这显然不合理。这样的错误在Manhattan SC p85有例子（Resigned to the bad news, ....那几个例句）

总结一下

独立主格=noun+noun modifier
noun modifier的类型很多，见p.84列表。这个结构对整个主句起某种修饰作用。

独立主格的类型一：
例句:His head held high, Owen walked out of the store。
这里作为verb modifier，并非作为appositive noun modifier（这个独立主格结构不能理解为：名词修饰语作为同位语，修饰Owen），既然是verb modifier那么位置就比较灵活：Owen walked out of the store, his head held high.
独立主格结构表伴随，可以写成Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.

独立主格的类型二：
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result .... （见我前面举的一系列例子）
这种类型里，前面那个分句作为整体，可以浓缩成一个词result （类似的有report/observation/finding/trend/tendency/increase等）。在这种类型里，有的时候可以用", v-ing"形式替换。”有的时候“即需要满足以下条件（这些条件也即",v-ing"结构make logical sense的条件）：
1. 前面的分句作为整体，可以浓缩为一个词作为v-ing的逻辑主语
2. 时态跟从主句时态
3. 逻辑意思上，v-ing一般表示结果或者伴随，有时候句意逻辑决定了不能这么用（例如表示purpose/plan，就得用不定式）

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/18 1:53:07)

最近被with独立主格卡死了！这个帖子是救星！baby很厉害而且回答超级耐心的。每个人的问题都超级仔细回答的。在准备复习的时候能找到一个能给出比较肯定答案的人是很重要的。还是要感谢baby

-- by 会员 MsDoughnut (2012/3/29 21:09:55)

还想到个问题，Manhattan上说", v-ing"形式必须符合逻辑，一个典型的例子是如果表示purpose就要用不定式结构，不能用V-ing。另外，v-ing形式蕴含着和主句时态一致这个前提。
那么结合以上，并非所有独立主格表结果的结构都能用v-ing替换。
我编几个例子欢迎讨论：

The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result that proves better marketing strategy.
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result proving better marketing strategy.
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, proving better marketing strategy.

The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result that will boost the stock price of the company in the near future. （让股票上涨是这个表达么？不太确定，请教大家）
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, boosting the stock price of the company in the near future.
这个ing形式的句子就不对了！因为boosting作为进行时，必须跟从主句时态。这么写就改变了句意，似乎股票上涨是同时发生的，而不是in the near future.

The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, result to announce at the upcoming executive meeting.
The revenue this year is 30% higher than last, announcing at the upcoming executive meeting.
这个ing形式的句子也不对！这里根据句意，必须用不定式"to announce"不定式，不能用v-ing。

通过以上三组例子，我们发现作为修饰整个分句的结构，独立主格很灵活，而", v-ing"比较局限
独立主格=noun+noun modifier，这个noun modifier可能性很多，例如介词短语，形容词，过去分词，现代分词（v-ing）, that从句（各种时态，不局限于主句时态）, 不定式
而v-ing必须严格满足以下条件：1. 逻辑主语同主句主语； 2. 时态同主句时态； 3.逻辑关系，一般是标结果或者伴随，总之必须逻辑上make sense，例如必须用不定式表purpose或者将来的时候就不能用v-ing

我觉得你总结得很赞！
补充两点关于独立主格（也是来自Manhattan）：
1. A phrase that consists of a noun and a noun modifier and that modifies
a whole clause or sentence. (p.291 Glossary)
就说独立主格并非要求跟主句的主语一致，独立主格的noun不要求是主句主语（his head 不等于Owen，results不等于scientists），但和主句有逻辑关系。

2. 关于独立主格或者v ing形式在后面表结果
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

在Absolute Phrase一节中，作者讲In some cases, you can use an -Ing form (with a comma) in place of an absolute phrase.
就说并非所有独立主格都能换成V ing形式表达。这个some怎么理解？在讲present participle那部分的时候书中说
It (the Ing form) can even modify an entire clause as above, as long as the entire clause converted into a noun phrase could
function as the subject of the verb that is now in -Ing form. （强烈推荐细读这节,p 91）
就说前面这个分句作为整体，可以归纳为一个名词——results，而results又可以作为suggest的主语。这种情况下，results suggest...这种独立主格结构可以用v-ing结构替换。
这种前面分句可以归纳为一个抽象名词的情况，比较典型的，我觉得有results/report/observation/finding/trend这一类（这种通常Absolute Phrase里的noun modifier是that从句，即noun+that clause)，还包括increase这种（随便编个例子，"今年产量较去年增长多少多少，increase that leads to ..."或者作为ing形式的"今年产量较去年增长多少多少, leading to ..."，即前面那个句子可以归纳为increase这个词）。

另：表原因的例子有吗，我在Manhattan上没找到，可否举一个....

我看了之前的帖子,总感觉很散乱,看了之后也是一头雾水,感觉有的讨论对PREP语法笔记的总结也持否定态度.所以我自己看了看曼哈顿,虽然简短,也若有所误,好像没有那麽复杂.

独立主格两种情况
N. + N. Modifier
1. 表伴随
His head held high, Owen walked out of the store.
2. 表结果
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, results that suggest the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

With + N
1. 表伴随
Owen walked out of the store with his head held high.
2. 我看讨论题有人说也表原因,我想表伴随也应该包括原因结果吧,我不确定,

总体来讲,有几句话我觉得值得深究,
1. Absolute phrases do not have to modify what they touch, they modify the main clause in some way.
2. The absolute phrase construction gives us a way to link a second sentence to the first.
3. At the end of a sentence, a result of the main clause can be written with either an absolute phrase of an -ing form.
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact of a meteor millions of years ago.

总体来讲,我现在的想法是独立主格不管怎样,修饰的是前面的整个句子(是否修饰分句我不敢确定), 所以逻辑主语是一定要考虑的.
我其实就是想如果有大牛能够帮忙把这个语法点进行一个总结,那是再好不过了,能给我们这些同学帮助很大,谢谢大牛,

我又一句总结,不知道对不对,不敢怎么说,独立主格结构都是表伴随(结果,动作,原因...), 如果逻辑上和主句不同,不能表示伴随,那就是错的,不知道这样理解对不对,求批评.

-- by 会员 wtx2490467 (2012/1/16 22:47:21)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/17 16:35:14)

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/1/17 17:18:33)

非常感谢ls同学帮我指出

请问原贴在哪里？这块儿我不知道，学习下

-- by 会员 babybearmm (2012/4/21 16:20:29)