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标题: 跪求：OG12-23， with后面为什么可以加句子 [打印本页]

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-20 20:50
标题: 跪求：OG12-23， with后面为什么可以加句子

In a previous design, the weight of the discus used intrack competition is concentrated in a metal center,but now it is lined with lead around the perimeter,thereby improving stability in flight and resulting inlonger throws.

(A) In a previous design, the weight of the discusused in track competition is concentrated in ametal center, but now it is

(B) According to a previous design, the weight ofthe discus used in track competition wasconcentrated in a metal center, but now it is

(C) Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in trackcompetition is now

(D) The discus used in track competition, oncedesigned with its weight concentrated in a metalcenter, but now

(E) The discus used in track competition was oncedesigned having its weight concentrated in ametal center and now

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-20 20:53
划线部分是In a previous design, the weight of the discus used in track competition is concentrated in a metal center, but now it is 这里，不好意思。。。

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-21 07:49
自己顶一下。。

作者: geniealice 时间: 2011-9-21 17:08
个人拙见，不是句子。
Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, .... is now lined with lead around the perimeter,...

with ＋ n 或名词性成分（its weight 和 lead）
后面的 concentrated 和 around 是 adj 做为补语，修饰前面的名词

也可以参考with引导的独立主格结构，也是这样
with＋n＋宾补（V-ed/V-ing/介词短语/形容词短语）
这里虽然虽然不是独立主格，但是with后面的使用和结构类似，Lz可以找几个句子感受一下

作者: 2011finish 时间: 2011-9-22 00:30
LS的NN

这里的with是简单的prep（by）吧？

作者: 2011finish 时间: 2011-9-22 00:40
LS的NN

这里的with是简单的prep（by）吧？

求指点，with的各种用法

作者: superbat28 时间: 2011-9-22 09:21
with是介词，但是with的介宾短语很特殊的说。。。

with介宾短语，可以是with+n这样的简单介宾，也可以是with+n+宾补成分这样的复合介宾结构

作者: lianlonger 时间: 2011-9-22 09:25
concentrated是分词作定语吧？

作者: 2011finish 时间: 2011-9-22 09:49
明白了，bat，以后就跟着你混了

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-22 21:27

个人拙见，不是句子。
Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, .... is now lined with lead around the perimeter,...

with ＋ n 或名词性成分（its weight 和 lead）
后面的 concentrated 和 around 是 adj 做为补语，修饰前面的名词

也可以参考with引导的独立主格结构，也是这样
with＋n＋宾补（V-ed/V-ing/介词短语/形容词短语）
这里虽然虽然不是独立主格，但是with后面的使用和结构类似，Lz可以找几个句子感受一下

-- by 会员 geniealice (2011/9/21 17:08:48)

原来如此，但是类似with的结构怎么区分呢？我们来看2个OG里的句子

128. Australian embryologists have found evidence thatsuggests that the elephant is descended from anaquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as akind of snorkel.
A) that suggests that the elephant is descendedfrom an aquatic animal, and its trunk originallyevolving
(B) that has suggested the elephant descended froman aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved
(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originallyevolved
129. Cajuns speak a dialect brought to southern Louisianaby the 4,000 Acadians who migrated there in 1755;their language is basically seventeenth-century Frenchto which has been added English, Spanish, and Italian words.

(A) to which has been added English, Spanish, andItalian words
(B) added to which is English, Spanish, and Italianwords
(C) to which English, Spanish, and Italian words havebeen added
(D) with English, Spanish, and Italian words havingbeen added to it
(E) and, in addition, English, Spanish, and Italianwords are added

我们来看一下OG128和OG129的两个错误选项

关键在于128题，关于D选项，OG的解释是因为with跟了句子。

但是with后主干 trunk evolved 这个主谓结构的句子，相对于 weight concentrated 而言，如何才能判定，前者是，而后者不是呢？

而129题D相对好看，因为 with words having been added. 倘若改为 with words added, 不讨论句义，只讨论words added的情况下，那他判定为一个句子吗？

这个有什么判定标准存在吗？存在一个介词+（n+过去分词），如何说后面那个是句子，如何说他不是呢

问题比较多。。跪谢！！！

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-22 21:27
同问！！同楼上！！谢谢！！……

作者: geniealice 时间: 2011-9-22 22:57
128. Australian embryologists have found evidence that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving as a kind of snorkel.
(A) that suggests that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal, and its trunk originally evolving
(B) that has suggested the elephant descended from an aquatic animal, its trunk originally evolving
(C) suggesting that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal with its trunk originally evolved
(D) to suggest that the elephant had descended from an aquatic animal and its trunk originally evolved
(E) to suggest that the elephant is descended from an aquatic animal and that its trunk originally evolved
OA：E
OG上说C错误的原因是with后面跟了独立的句子。
its trunk originally evolved as a kind of snorkel. 的确是一个句子主谓宾，evolved（不及物动词）是谓语，evolve as “逐渐成为”
对比：
Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in track competition is now lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting in longer throws.
此处如果with后面如果是句子应该是 its weight was concentrated in a metal center. --> 题中的成分不是句子“with 宾＋宾补”
欢迎拍砖。。。

作者: superbat28 时间: 2011-9-23 08:47
LS， good explanation~

而且，我感觉，OG Q128，在解释中还是存在一个小小的逻辑问题。
首先，GMAC认定句意上，应该是两个并列的从句，它已经先入为主的确定 its trunk originally evolved 后面一系列话应该是一个句子；而不应该是一个短语。

第二，evolve这个词，过去时和V-ed形容词，长的一样，所以难判断它到底是前者还是后者，这是一个必然讨厌的问题。

诚然，我们可以把C选项，with后面的结构看成【with的复合介宾结构】，但是GMAC它先入为主的觉着：“这里在逻辑上应该是一个句子，而又因为evlove在这里可以做过去时，它可以被认定为一个句子。”所以，它给出了OG上的那段解释。

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-23 10:53
明白了！感谢！感觉还是要在实战中体会啊

作者: 自由风暴 时间: 2011-9-23 10:55
感谢NN解答！我刚刚翻出了以前一个你发了一个with的帖子好好读了下，看来题做得还是少了，得多从题中体会啊

作者: superbat28 时间: 2011-9-23 11:36

感谢NN解答！我刚刚翻出了以前一个你发了一个with的帖子好好读了下，看来题做得还是少了，得多从题中体会啊

-- by 会员自由风暴 (2011/9/23 10:55:08)

此言差矣。多思考远远大于多做题。
那些东西只是通过prep和OG得出的体会，可能说针对with特别想深究的时候，又看了看先辈们整理的总结，最后加进了几道OG10。
但总体，就是这么多题。所以，刷OG，不是单纯的刷，而是要去想，去感受。
做题这个量的问题，每个人都有每个人的把握，这个看自己。但是，真心不要为做题而做题~要去思考每道题~over~哇咔。

作者: 疯狂的狐狸 时间: 2016-5-9 14:36
from RON:
“with" occupies a rather special place in the hearts of gmac's problem writers. in other words, "with" is NOT used like other prepositions, and so, accordingly, there are some unique points to absorb about its use.
the clearest example of this special usage is in the non-underlined part of og12 problem 29:
Theend of the eighteenth century saw the emergence of prize-stock breeding, with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest whenever they were put on show.
with individual bulls and cows receiving awards, fetching unprecedented prices, and exciting enormous interest
this usage directly violates the principles for the use of other prepositions -- specifically, "with + noun + VERBing" is allowed even though the VERBing, rather than the noun, is the intended object of "with". (i.e., in the sentence above, prize-stock breeding was not "with bulls and cows" -- it was specifically with prizes awarded to these animals.)
this is veeeerrry interesting, since identical constructions with other prepositions are definitely incorrect. for instance, i've never heard of people biting dogs is incorrect, because the intended object of the preposition is the action (the biting) rather than the noun ("people"); instead, one could write i've never heard that people have bitten dogs.

a similar usage can be found in og12 #23, with a past participle rather than an ING form ("with its weight concentrated...")

Once designed with its weight concentrated in a metal center, the discus used in track competition is now lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting inlonger throws.
so, it is confirmed: "with" has its own special set of rules, independent of (and contradictory to) the rules for other pronouns.

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