ChaseDream

标题: 10万$工作和TOP MBA, 选哪个? [打印本页]

作者: hhxx1    时间: 2004-7-7 15:30
标题: 10万$工作和TOP MBA, 选哪个?
正在思想斗争. 是放弃10万$的工作,去读一个TOP (5?) MBA,还是part time读Berkley Haas?



目前在一top software company做software development, 想向general management / international business发展.



请各位XDJM指点.先谢过了!






作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-7 15:40

那要看你多喜欢现在的工作,又有多向往做管理。如果你觉得现在的工作实在没意思又没有上升的潜力,应该申请MBA。  All depends on your preference and priority.

Can't help but ask: is MM working in Oracle?  just curious.  


作者: chipmunk    时间: 2004-7-7 15:42
假设是美金的话,那当然是去读part time了,Berkeley的文凭也不是吃素的。
作者: dianarose    时间: 2004-7-7 16:15

generally chances for international students to switch career among mgmt sectors thru a PT program (including those "top" ones like Haas, NYU, Chicago, etc.) is quite slim, not to mention programmers going to general mgmt field.


as the job market takes off, a top 5 FT MBA will bring you more tangible opportunities for job switch. however, you should get well-prepared for intensive competition in the admission process (unless you consider Chicago or UMBS as a "top 5").  


作者: Chaseforever    时间: 2004-7-7 17:41

如果不是特别厌恶目前的工作同时又很想转行的话,我觉得还是读part time的mba 好一点。如果想在目前的行业或相关行业从技术往管理层发展,haas的part time MBA应该可以起到补充管理知识,帮助你向管理方向转型的作用的。


作者: janechen    时间: 2004-7-7 22:16

If you're interested in management in a technology company, I'd say do the part-time program at Berkeley. Berkeley's name still goes a long way, part-time or full-time.

I think it all comes back to opportunity-cost. You're already making post-topMBA salary now (if yours is in US dollar). If you do it part-time, you can still maintain your work experience, and while you're pursuing your part-time study, let your company know that you're interested in the management track. Perhaps you can even switch within your company. Just my 0.02


作者: merrylili    时间: 2004-7-8 00:35
of course part time MBA, which is good enough for you to climb up in your current industry.
作者: hhxx1    时间: 2004-7-8 07:58

ruiyu25 JJ: "如果你觉得现在的工作实在没意思又没有上升的潜力,应该申请MBA"


是啊,我觉得一辈子做软件coding没什么意思,所以是下决心要读MBA的.只是现在在犹豫是读part time还是full time.


dianarose GG: "chances for international students to switch career among mgmt sectors thru a PT program  is quite slim, not to mention programmers going to general mgmt field."
长远地讲,我想以后回国发展.应该还会是在high tech sector吧.如果是这样的话,PT 的机会又怎样?


"as the job market takes off, a top 5 FT MBA will bring you more tangible opportunities for job switch."


Sure, FT definitely will bring more opportunities for job switch.  但昨天看了WSJ/Harris MBA survey, 2002年Harvard, Stanford MBA graduates的start salary才USD90,000多点, pretty discouraged :-(


“...intensive competition in the admission process (unless you consider Chicago or UMBS as a "top 5").  "


Who are the top 5s?  Harvard, Stanford, Wharton defenitely are in.  Who else?  Kellogg? Tuck? Chicago?  UMBS?  Sloan?  Is there any consensus?


I certainly understand the competitions for getting into the top 3 or 5 programs are intensive.  In my case, Haas should be within reach, but the others could also be within striking distance -- maybe I'm a little too optimistic.  Anyway, if the top FT worth it, at least I'd like to try.  But, the question is, does it worth it?

chipmunk GG, Chaseforever JJ,  janechen JJ, merrylili JJ 看来都是倾向part time的.100K number是USD.的确the opportunity-cost is huge for FT.可是,Berkeley Haas能算top tier吗?会不会Top (3 or 5) FT能带来Haas PT所无法比拟的,such as networking, or something else?


困惑中.应该不会只有我有这样的困惑吧?或许别的朋友不好意思提?Anyway, 请多指点!谢谢!








[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-8 8:16:29编辑过]

作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-8 12:31

hhxxl MM, I still have the same answer for you:  all depends on what you want.  Going to partime MBA program even with brand name program such as Hass,  you are not going to get the full experience and exposure of a MBA program.  If you are looking to broaden your life experience and get the full exposure that the top MBA program can offer, go for the top full time MBA program.  On the other hand, however, going to full time program means that you are going to forfeit $30K (2 years of your $100K salary plus $10K tuition and living expense).  It is a huge amount of money!  lus, after you get MBA degree you may not even make the same amount of moeny you are making now.  

In my opinion, Hass part time MBA does not make much difference in terms of long term career opportunity wherever you are in US or in China.

Hope this will help!


作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-8 12:33
sorry, I means $300,000
作者: hhxx1    时间: 2004-7-8 13:37

ruiyu25 JJ,  thanks!  It does help somewhat.  But, what do you mean "Hass part time MBA does not make much difference in terms of long term career opportunity wherever you are in US or in China"?  Do you mena that


(1) Hass PT will not have much impact to the long term career opportunity (comparing with other top FT programs), and


(2) Contention in (1) will be true, no matter whether I stay in US, or go back to China?


Could you please elaborate a little bit?  Many thanks!


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-8 13:37:44编辑过]

作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-8 14:07

Sorry for the confusion.  What I mean is that Hass part time MBA program will be comparable to other top MBA programs in terms of long term career opportunities.

In the short term, especially after you get the degree, since you haven't done internship, you may find a little difficult to switch a job function.  You can ask people in the upper management in your company that whether it is possible to enter into their field with part time MBA from Hass.  If the answer is yes, you should definitely consider about this option.

In the long term, since you will have switched the gear for a long time, part time degree won't be different compared to FT.  In addition, your deploma only carries the name of Berkeley MBA.   eople here or in China won't ask whether you enter the FT or PT program.

This is my personal opinion.


作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-8 14:18
才看到这个讨论.感谢hhxx1 MM提出这个话题.我也有类似的疑问.当然我挣的没 hhxx1 MM多 :-)

dianarose GG讲的, 和ruiyu25 等众多MM讲的,似乎都有道理.

那么, 撇开the considerable opportunity cost ($100K * 2) and tuition and boarding ($100K)不谈,到底top FT和Haas PT比, offer哪些更有价值的东西?

dianarose GG?  MMs?

作者: josh_han    时间: 2004-7-8 14:44
If the top program means any one of Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/MIT/CB, then definitely worth if you do not like your current job. Money, definitely, is not the most important thing in my life though I am not rich.
作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-8 15:13

I agree that money is not the most important thing in life.  But money is still something one should possess to better enjoy life, right?

Considering the huge amount of money at stake here, I guess the question boils down to

What the top 3 or 5 FT programs offer can not be gained throught Hass PT?

IMO, answering this question should offer hints to answering the original question.


作者: dianarose    时间: 2004-7-8 15:34

I think a proper way for clarifying the seemingly complex dilemma is just to go through the whole application procedure or at least the essay composing step, even though you are not gonna devote yourself into the admission process. Thus it might be easier for you to find out your long-term aspiration and the way you approach it -- the storylines that can probably solve your dilemma.


Confirm your long-term aspiration and you'll be able to launch a reasonable comparison between $300k and a critical chance to change your career path.


Thinking about how you approach your career-switch goals yearly, quarterly and gradually, then hopefully you can properly evaluate FT off PT, and among various schools.


No one can offer simple and decisive answers except yourself... and that's the reason b-schools keep demanding those cliche essays.


In terms of money, I guess you may not need to worry too much -- when you were concerned about the post-MBA salary, you were actually comparing a medium level salary in a certain field with a something entry-level one in another. Just consider that the average compensation of most top b-schools' MBAs in their 3rd or 4th post-school yr easily exceed $150-200K and what your expected earning will be in 5 or 6 yrs.


There are never acknowledged "top 5 schools", but only your shortlisted top 5 schools. If you prefer IT/project mgmt, they might be HBS, Stanford, MIT, Wharton and Berkeley. If you are gonna stick to finance, then Wharton, Columbia, NYU, Chicago and MIT. For creating startups, maybe Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, HBS and UCLA. If you just wanna secure your job-switch and have no idea where to go, probably HBS, Stanford, Columbia, MIT and NYU. So it's still up to you.


作者: dianarose    时间: 2004-7-8 15:45
以下是引用robertchu在2004-7-8 15:13:00的发言:


What the top 3 or 5 FT programs offer can not be gained throught Hass PT?


it's easy to pour cliches upon this key question: intensive academic life, real campus community, full career-development support, ... however no tailored answer can be offered unless you keep seeking detail information from different approaches and various insiders.


作者: janechen    时间: 2004-7-8 21:42

I said earlier that this is all about opportunity-cost, which, in this case, boils down t

full-time program: 2-year tuition + 2-year loss of income + 2-year loss of work experience

Another advantage with full-time program is the networking experience, which may or may not be comparable from the part-time program.

I agree with others that, in the long run, it doesn't make any difference if you did your MBA part-time or full-tume, assuming your degree is from Berkeley or any other top schools. Berkeley is a top school. And when it comes to post-MBA salary, perhaps HBS grad makes slight more on average , but I bet it's not substantial at all.

The real question is, what exactly do you want to do after MBA? Many former IT professionals go into management for tech firms. But if you want a complete change of career, (for example, from pre-MBA software eng'r to post-MBA investment banker ), then do the full-time program, because it doesn't make any sense to still around just for the money. If you still want to stick around with technical related areas (not necessary in IT), I would stay with PT program.

Have you thought about letting your company know that you're interested in MBA? They may be even willing to let you move into a non-programming track and cover some of the cost of your part-time program.


作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-9 00:58
dianarose "Just consider that the average compensation of most top b-schools' MBAsin their 3rd or 4th post-school yr easily exceed $150-200K and whatyour expected earning will be in 5 or 6 yrs."

Very interesting.  Is there any published numbers or surveyresults on the compensation of top program graduates in their 3rd or4th post-school years?  If so, where can they be found? Thanks!

作者: dianarose    时间: 2004-7-9 01:45

































































































































































































































































































School 5-year gain 1 ($thou) 5-year gain 2 (%) Years to payback Class of '98 salary pre-MBA ($thou) Class of '98 salary in 2002 ($thou) Tuition-class of '04 3 Median GMAT Class of '04 Public/
Private
Location
Harvard 149883.16019564710privateBoston, MA
Dartmouth (Tuck) 139912.85016167700privateHanover, NH
Columbia 1471042.64616067711privateNew York, NY
Northwestern (Kellogg) 126832.95016066700privateEvanston, IL
Stanford 133832.95816070NAprivateStanford, CA
Chicago 145972.75015367700privateChicago, IL
IMD 1341411.96615040660privateLausanne, Switzerland
Insead 1481711.75715049704privateFountainbleau, France
Pennsylvania (Wharton) 134902.75015058710privatePhiladelphia, PA
MIT (Sloan) 1187834914167710privateCambridge, MA
Cornell (Johnson) 122922.84014064680privateIthaca, NY
NYU (Stern) 120892.74713963700privateNew York, NY
London 114852.85013557690publicLondon, UK
UCLA (Anderson) 118942.74813549700publicLos Angeles, CA
Yale 1371122.53713165700privateNew Haven, CT
Cambridge (Judge) 1311662.35313036680publicCambridge, UK
Oxford (Said) 1251791.84812937690publicOxford, UK
UNC (Kenan-Flagler) 1321192.44312954680publicChapel Hill, NC
Duke (Fuqua) 957334312765710privateDurham, NC
Virginia (Darden) 1231012.64512664684publicCharlottesville, VA
UC Berkeley (Haas) 958034412550710publicBerkeley, CA
Babson (Olin) 22174.54712353643privateBabson Park, MA
Georgetown (McDonough) 937633712061661privateWashington, DC
USC (Marshall) 88763.13912058680privateLos Angeles, CA
Boston College (Carroll) 47453.93811849660privateChestnut Hill, MA























































































































































































































































































Carnegie Mellon 99782.94011865680privatePittsburgh, PA
Emory (Goizueta) 99952.84011661675privateAtlanta, GA
Michigan 96712.94511667690publicAnn Arbor, MI
Vanderbilt (Owen) 93772.93811259648privateNashville, TN
Notre Dame (Mendoza) 77673.23611154650privateNotre Dame, IN
UC Davis 1194.84811051667publicDavis, CA
Indiana (Kelley) 84782.93810645651publicBloomington, IN
Cranfield 711092.55310538640publicBedford, UK
HEC-Paris 24254.34810535660publicCedex, France
SMU (Cox) 84763.13410552660privateDallas, TX
Texas-Austin (McCombs) 1141142.43810551680publicAustin, TX
SDA Bocconi 9419123910431670privateMilano, Italy
University of Washington 54553.44010437671publicSeattle, WA
William & Mary 941022.73510445600publicWilliamsburg, VA
Tulane (Freeman) 86812.93310356663privateNew Orleans, LA
UC Irvine 984.74510250680publicIrvine, CA
Australian GSOM 7910033710136640publicSydney, Australia
Minnesota (Carlson) 88992.73510047645publicMinneapolis, MN
Penn State (Smeal) 841012.73110042645publicUniversity Park, PA
Purdue (Krannert) 83802.93910048650publicWest Lafayette, IN
Rochester (Simon) 73643.13710061640privateRochester, NY
Wake Forest (Babcock) 91872.83310050640privateWinston-Salem, NC
Rotterdam 70742.9369933630publicRotterdam, Netherlands
Brigham Young (Marriott) 1081492.3309819650privateProvo, UT
Illinois-Urbana-Champaign 79972.8369821640publicUrbana, IL


this is a Forbes investigation. i barely remember BW and U.S.News both have conducted similar statistics.


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-9 2:01:20编辑过]

作者: bunnier    时间: 2004-7-9 02:44
以下是引用hhxx1在2004-7-7 15:30:00的发言:
正在思想斗争. 是放弃10万$的工作,去读一个TOP (5?) MBA,还是part time读Berkley Haas?
目前在一top software company做software development, 想向general management / international business发展.
请各位XDJM指点.先谢过了!

Alice asked Cheshire Cat, "Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to walk from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where," said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you walk," said the Cat.


          --Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll

Translation: it depends on your ultimate goal(s)...


作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-9 08:34
I think the statistics from Forbes are quite misleading.  Look at the years they collect the data: 1998 -2001, the golden era probably once in a century.  How much money you are going to make after 4 years from graduation depends on the location, the industry, the job function and how truely outstanding and aggressive you are.  I feel many of us are too optimistic about the MBA earning potential.  a top MBA is not a guarantee for big chunk of money.  Nowadays IB is still hot industry many many MBA studnets are chasing after, but how many of them have prepared to work 100 hours a week without a social life, without spending time with family and friends and even without time spending all those money?  We should definitely carefully think about our ultimate goal and what do we really want.
作者: suncola    时间: 2004-7-9 09:50

Actually I think 100k is kinda easy to pay back if people earn a US pay, e.g. 50-60k per year. But the salary can't fulfill the expectation of many MBAs.


作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-9 11:20
suncola MM: I think what hhxx1 MM mentioned is already in USD.  100K USD annual salary before MBA.

作者: dajiqi    时间: 2004-7-9 11:36
说到底, 这是一个人生目的的问题. 一个在美国读书N年现在找到工作的GG告诉我, 一个好的工作比什么都重要, 年头够了并且凭自己的实力作上去, 工资奖金丝毫不比MBA毕业后少, 况且没有人能保证你毕业后就一定有一个高起点. 另外一种选择就是圆梦, MBA可能是一个梦, 对于许多人来说, 但是从更实际的意义上来说, 过于虚无. 看你的选择了. 如果念MBA是你想得到更高的物质生活的方法, 那么念与不念书, 区别不大. 100K和130K在美国又有什么区别呢? 如果MBA是你的梦想, 不实现就极为不爽的话, 就念.
作者: hhxx1    时间: 2004-7-9 13:37

dianarose GG: "I think a proper way for clarifying the seemingly complex dilemma is just to go through the whole application procedure or at least the essay composing step, even though you are not gonna devote yourself into the admission process. Thus it might be easier for you to find out your long-term aspiration and the way you approach it -- the storylines that can probably solve your dilemma."


Thank you for the valuable advice!  I appreciate it!


The Forbes number is certainly encouraging.  Although ruiyu25 JJ is right to point out that "a top MBA is not a guarantee for big chunk of money",  knowing that earning a top MBA can provide you much higher upward potential is still some consolation.


I think I really should think more thoroughly through it.  In additioin, I've ordered " Business School Confidential " and "How to get into the top MBA programs".  Hopefully more reading can help me better understand the process and provoke more thinking.


I would also appreciate any inputs anybody can give!  Thanks in advance!



[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-9 13:42:10编辑过]

作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-9 13:54
ruiyu25: dianarose's table is from Forbes, and was originally published on 2003.10.13
  http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1013/078.html

The survey target is MBA class of 1998-- "a class that worked through the boom and bust since graduation." And the salary number is from 2002 -- which actually was at the bottom of the soft labor market.  So, I think the nubmers might not be asmisleading as you suggested.  Of course you are very right to point out that "a top MBA is not a guarantee for big chunk of money".
[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-9 13:56:32编辑过]

作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-9 14:18
以下是引用dajiqi在2004-7-9 11:36:00的发言:
说到底, 这是一个人生目的的问题. 一个在美国读书N年现在找到工作的GG告诉我, 一个好的工作比什么都重要, 年头够了并且凭自己的实力作上去, 工资奖金丝毫不比MBA毕业后少, 况且没有人能保证你毕业后就一定有一个高起点. 另外一种选择就是圆梦, MBA可能是一个梦, 对于许多人来说, 但是从更实际的意义上来说, 过于虚无. 看你的选择了. 如果念MBA是你想得到更高的物质生活的方法, 那么念与不念书, 区别不大. 100K和130K在美国又有什么区别呢? 如果MBA是你的梦想, 不实现就极为不爽的话, 就念.

Well, your friend is certainly right: 书读多了自然应该去工作.

"年头够了并且凭自己的实力作上去, 工资奖金丝毫不比MBA毕业后少."

I'm not so sure of this.  What's the major and LoB of your friend?  As I understand, in US, for most jobs there are always a preset upper limit of compensation.  Say, for software developer, probably 110 - 120K is the most one can expect (not counting stock options -- since FASB is most likely going to require expensing stock option soon, the era of stock option rich probably is already behind us).  Unless one is prompted to a managerial position, the upward potential of compensation for a certain job is more or less given.

"况且没有人能保证你毕业后就一定有一个高起点"

I guess MBA from the top 3 or 5 programs hopefully can offer more or less a higher start point.  Otherwise why so many bright folks compete so intensively to get into one of these programs?

"MBA可能是一个梦, 对于许多人来说, 但是从更实际的意义上来说, 过于虚无"

Sure.  For some folks, especially those with little WE (no offense here), MBA is more like a 梦.But for folks who have worked a good 4 or 5 or even more years, I guess the decision to pursue a MBA, especially a top MBA, is probably much more than merely to 圆梦.

"如果念MBA是你想得到更高的物质生活的方法"

Sure, money is always a consideration.  But I guess most folks who pursue top MBA programs probably have higher inspirations than mere material satisfaction.  What's at issue here is not to pursue material satisfaction through MBA, but whether the gains from a top MBA program (including monetary gains, but much more than only the monetary gains) worth the huge investment (direct cost such as tuition and boarding, plus the opportunity cost of lost salary and WE).

"100K和130K在美国又有什么区别呢? "

As said, it's not only about money.  It's about whether the cost worth it.  But even in terms of money, one should not compare absolute snapshot numbers but compare the long term potentials.


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-10 13:50:28编辑过]

作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-10 02:32
以下是引用robertchu在2004-7-9 13:54:00的发言:
ruiyu25: dianarose's table is from Forbes, and was originally published on 2003.10.13
  http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1013/078.html

The survey target is MBA class of 1998-- "a class that worked through the boom and bust since graduation." And the salary number is from 2002 -- which actually was at the bottom of the soft labor market.  So, I think the nubmers might not be asmisleading as you suggested.  Of course you are very right to point out that "a top MBA is not a guarantee for big chunk of money".


Forgot to mention, there is indeed a big problem with the survey data.  According to the description, the survey is voluntary, and the response rate per school is only guaranteed to be above 15%.  So, it could be the case that those graduates who were not making good money or who didn't care about money didn't bother to reply.  In light of this, in the worst case scenario, the number probably can only reflect the top 15% earners among these graduates.  If so, the number probably is not as indicative as it seems.



作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-7-11 12:05

hhxx1 MM, some additional thoughts to share with you.



The true cost of attending top FT program:



- The lost salary:  it's true that in your case, 2 years of lost pre-tax salary is $200,000.  But I believe you should factor in the tax and consider the after-tax amount, since it more accurately reflect the true loss.  Assuming your are in CA, if you are single, then your effective combined federal & state tax rate will be about 30%; if you are married, the effective combined rate will be about 24%.  So, the after-tax salary loss will be $140,000 and 152,000 respectively for two years.



- The lost WE:  True, you will lost 2 years WE at your current position.  But you have to consider whether these two years of WE is crucial to your long term career development or not.  If you have already been doing what you are current doing for a while (from your 6 figures pay I assume this must the case), then two extra years of WE doing the same thing probably won't add too much value to your future career development.  On the other hand, as dianarose has pointed out, 2 years of FT can bring you “intensive academic life, real campus community, full career-development support”, and most importantly, networking opportunities with future business leaders.  In this regard, perhaps you even don't need to consider the lost WE as part of the total opportunity cost.



- Living expense:  since you are already in US, no matter whether you go FT or PT, the living expense will always incur.  So, I don’t think it’s necessary to count the 2 years living expense as extra cost of attending FT.  Only tuition need to be considered.  The tuition for most expensive private school is about $70,000 for two years.



- Total investment for a 2 year FT at top schools, including both opportunity cost and tuition: $210,000 to $222,000.  This is smaller than the $300,000 number originally calculated in earlier postings.  



Does it worth it?  



Admittedly $210,000 is still no small amount.  But, since you mentioned Haas, I assume you also live in the bay area.  Considering this: so many people here have put in huge amount of money, $500K, $600K, $700K or even more to buy not-so-luxury houses, some of them even strength them dangerously thin with ARM.  Why?  Many will tell you that they buy the house as an investment – betting the house value will appreciate.  But any financially-savvy people can attest that this is no sure bet.  Quite the contrary, the bay area housing market might be right at the peak of a bubble.  If you consider the $210,000 also as a kind of investment, investment on your future, I would say probably the long term ROI will most likely be better than those investment on housing, because most likely you will be able to benefit from the investment in a top MBA program in the rest of your 20 – 30 years of career.



Furthermore, since you mentioned that you work in the software industry, you must have witnessed the brutal downturn in the past few years.  Sure, the industry is slowly recovering, but, some long term structural changes that have been kicked off in the past few years, such as the off-sourcing and off-shoring of development to low cost locations such as India, China, east European countries, the bringing-down-to-earth of the once-high-flying industry, as evident in the recent Oracle vs. DoJ trial, probably will not necessarily disappear with the fragile recovery.  Yes, you are making good money now.  But can you, or for that matter anybody in the industry, say for sure that you, or whoever in the industry, will still be able to make such good money 3 or 5 years from now?  Are you sure that your job will not go to India?



So, probably the answer to this question is going to be a Yes.



How long can you recoup the investment?  



I agree with ruiyu25 etc. that the Forbes post-MBA earning list is likely to be skewed towards the high-ends.  So, probably you won’t be able to make as much money as listed after graduate.  Considering your current high pay, it’s even possible that you start salary might be lower than what you currently earn.  But, I believe dianarose has made an excellent point.  You should not compare the mid-to-high pay in one occupation with the start pay of another.  True, the post-top-MBA salary growth rate may not be as steep as the Forbes list suggests, but since the upward potential of post-MBA-pay is much bigger than your current job, in the long run -- maybe not 3 years but 5 or 7 or even more years  – it’s reasonable to expect that one will be able to recoup the investment.  I’m sure that there might be exceptions, and there will always be occasional disappointments, but I believe the odds of being able to recoup the investment is reasonably big.  Otherwise, if such investment is likely to be a losing proposition, why so many smart young men and women work so hard to get in?



FT or PT?  



This is the hardest question.  And I don’t have all the answers.  Since Haas is also a pretty good school, a Haas PT in the end may not be a bad choice.  There have been some excellent postings comparing FT with PT already.  Just some additional points to add: if you go PT, not only it will take longer to finish (3 years or more versus 2 years of FT), but most likely, in these three years, more or less you will have to put your day job on the back burner – as many of us who prepared GMAT part time can tell.  So, it’s unlikely that you will perform equally well in your day job during the 3 years as in the past.  At the same time, since you are only attending the MBA part time, most likely you will also not able to gain as much from the PT program as you would from a FT program.  Moreover, attending PT for three years will no doubt add lots of stress to your personal life, to your health, and to your family (if you have family).  So, although on the face you are both making money and getting a MBA diploma, but look below the surface you may find fatigue and stress everywhere, both in professional life and in personal life.  All these don’t bode well for a healthy jump-start of the post MBA career.  Sure, slowly PT graduates may also take off in their career, but considering the early-to-mid 30 something years are crucial to one's life long career success, the slowing start of post-PT actually incurs a considerable opportunity cost.  That’s probably why most of the top programs don’t offer PT.



Just some incomplete thoughts.  And I’d appreciate it if you or any other XDJM can add more insights to this very helpful discussion.  Thanks!


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-11 12:28:32编辑过]

作者: ruiyu25    时间: 2004-7-11 12:19
Robert, I think you have did thorough analsis.  You made the excellent points here!
作者: heku    时间: 2004-7-12 17:37

parttime is better for me, one of here,

mba is only the way, which could help u to change ur style of career just like from IT to Management,etc.  

enjoy ur life, boddy   


作者: janechen    时间: 2004-7-13 00:51

This is turning into an excellent post! I'm sure many of us have similar doubts as the original post. For those of us who are already making decent salary, and especially given the slow economy, sometimes it's hard to quit a good paying job and become a full-time student again. After all, the financial reward may not be just around the corner.

robertchu has done a great analysis. seems like he has really thought about this long and hard My take is that the opportunity cost of a MBA education include many factors. The financial sacrifices (initially) and reward (eventually) are obviously important. There are also intangible things which we cannot simply put a dollar sign on. These include the potential and gratification in advancing our career, and inevitably the sacrifices we have to make in our personal lives along the way. To certain extent, getting a MBA is a gamble. But then, isn't everything else in life a gamble? Afterall, no one can safely say that when we get the hard-earned MBA, we'll be able to pull the 6-figure salary right off and become the CEO in a fortune500 company in 10 years. So it basically comes down to a personal choice. How much risk can we afford (personally and professionally)? how much are we willing to risk? and is the reward worth the risk?


作者: dajiqi    时间: 2004-7-13 06:31

Janechen’s point is reasonable.


I just think some of the authors of these posts are too optimistic and certain without clear reasons. Life is gamble. But when the stake is 100K job and even your future, you should, before taking any action, think very carefully about the results and possible consequences.


In the field of law, the most frequently asked question is “ Is this reasonable?”. This question involves two aspects concerning the choice made between $100K and topMBA.


Aspect 1: What do you want from the mba?


Aspect 2: What do you want from your life?


Different people have different ideas, of course…



If money is the priority in judging the right action, be confident. You have already on the top, let us say fairly. Being a Chinese in USA, you are very successful person judged by the criteria of earning power and you can do even better and you may enjoy a fine life.


What is the point when you decide to go to a topmba? Spend 100K, quit your enviable job to go for the knowledge that you born with?



Then what do you want from you life? 100 hours/ week job with 6 figure salary??!! That is what you want? Different people have different ideas, of course…



I sure agree with some you. The point I am making is “be smart in managing your life.” Analysis is analysis, both yours and mine. You working span is just 30 years. Jane says life is full of gamble. However, no one could make such an important choice with such gaming attitude. Be smart, be really smart. Ask yourself is this reasonable.


作者: chekie    时间: 2004-7-13 14:34

I would say this is really an amazing post.  Admiring u guys' good English and logical reasoning. Even looking at this point, I would say MBA program do add some value, if not a lot.


Would like to add one more thought:


Are we too realistic while balancing all the opportunity cost and potential benefits? Admittedly, it is a very serious question worthing deep thinking and discussing. However, people need to make decision always before benefit turns out to be obvious or even measurable.  To me, the most (and maybe the only) admiring point in Bill Gates is his decision to give up his Harvard degree and start his own business in the era when not many people can tell the computer and software industries' future.  If Bill Gates use the same analytical method, the most possible decision would be to continue his Harvard life.  If I were in the same situation, I doubt I have the same courage and vision to make the same decision as Bill Gate's.  


I always think what difference exists between top analyst and a entrepreneur. We may have gradually lost the most valuable characteristic, transient impulse and courage to do what we want to do, when we again and again rely our decision on very thorough and detailed analysis.  In real world, I think, not all problems can be perfectly solved by balancing the potential cost and revenue (including financial and non-financial).


Anyway, there is only one Bill Gate. Although not everyboday can reach the same level as Bill Gate has done, it does add value to highlight the impulse, courage and vision behind a decision. This point is not only to all u guys, but to myself as well as I am also caught in the same dilemma.


Be a bit more unrealistic! We are short of vision and decision ability facing uncertainty, rather than thorough worksheet analytical skill.


  


[此贴子已经被作者于2004-7-13 14:39:51编辑过]

作者: bunnier    时间: 2004-7-15 10:38
以下是引用chekie在2004-7-13 14:34:00的发言:

[...]


Be a bit more unrealistic! We are short of vision and decision ability facing uncertainty, rather than thorough worksheet analytical skill.




作者: hhxx1    时间: 2004-7-17 07:52

谢谢robertchu GG, ruiyu25 JJ, janechen JJ, chekie JJ 和其他XDJM 的comments!

我刚收到"Business School Confidential" and "How to get into the top MBA programs"这两本书,正在开始读.觉得它们或许会帮助我思考top MBA program 对我的真正价值(or lack of).等我读完了,我会在来把我的想法跟大家讨论!谢谢!


作者: tulipmontreal    时间: 2004-7-18 10:00

楼主是大牛

选择工作 读PARTTIME的


作者: robertchu    时间: 2004-8-23 13:05

hhxx1 MM,

Now it's the season of applying.  Have you made any decisions, or anything new thoughts to share?






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