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标题: 一道prep上的关于hollywood restaurant的题，没看到对于D的讨论，急 [打印本页]

作者: Joseph_lin 时间: 2011-6-12 17:22
标题: 一道prep上的关于hollywood restaurant的题，没看到对于D的讨论，急
17. (26864-!-item-!-188;#058&003368)

At present the Hollywood Restaurant has only standard-height tables. However, many customers come to watch the celebrities who frequent the Hollywood, and they would prefer tall tables with stools because such seating would afford a better view of the celebrities. Moreover, diners seated on stools typically do not stay as long as diners seated at standard-height tables. Therefore, if the Hollywood replaced some of its seating with high tables and stools, its profits would increase.

The argument is vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that it gives reason to believe that it is likely that

(A) some celebrities come to the Hollywood to be seen, and so might choose to sit at the tall tables if they were available
(B) the price of meals ordered by celebrities dining at the Hollywood compensates for the longer time, if any, they spend lingering over their meals
(C) a customer of the Hollywood who would choose to sit at a tall table would be an exception to the generalization about lingering
(D) a restaurant's customers who spend less time at their meals typically order less expensive meals than those who remain at their meals longer
(E) with enough tall tables to accommodate all the Hollywood's customers interested in such seating, there would be no view except of other tall tables

这道削弱题答案是C，我明白它的意思，是直接说其中的一个前提不成立，但是我想问下D为什么不对呢？如果是D的话，因为每顿饭花费的钱少了（虽然换台快了，吃的人多了），所以profit有可能增加，有可能减少，有可能不变，但是削弱题只要使答案有不成立的可能就可以了呀，所以如果每顿饭花钱少了的话，profit是不一定增加的，这样不算削弱了答案了吗？还是说选项C和D都是对的，但是C更直接，所以选C，不选D呢？
望NN指点迷津，谢谢

作者: colasama 时间: 2011-6-12 17:37
刚翻了下旧帖子~~看到神解释...

价格跟利润没有必然关系...没

~~有人说卖得便宜的菜利润就一定低...说不定便宜的菜因为成本低，而利润跟卖的贵的菜没却别，甚至利润更高都可能~~

解释看3L

作者: Joseph_lin 时间: 2011-6-12 17:52
Noted, thx

作者: sdcar2010 时间: 2011-6-12 22:23
The reason to eliminate D) is that this question is a must be true type of question, meaning you cannot introduce NEW information. D) introduces NEW information while C) only points out the self-controversy stated in the stimulus.

If you think about it, how can you deduce D) by reading the stimulus ONLY? The prompt directs you to find something which "gives reason to believe that it is likely" according to the passage.

The following is the complete analysis.

First of all, this is similar to a paradox question and the question stem asks you to find the criticism which points out the deficiency in the argument. So let's analyze the argument.

Premises:
1) Customers come to Hollywood Restaurant to watch the celebrities so customrs would prefer tall tables to get a better view.
2) Diners seated on stools typically stay a shorter time than diners on regular seats.

Conclusion:
If the Hollywood replaced some of its seating with high tables and stools, its profits would increase.

Basically, the argument says that stools would attract more customers and customers sitting on stools turn over quickly. Therefore, profits would be up. Wait a minute. Based on premise 1, if the customers are attracted to the restaraunt because they want to see celebrities, shouldn't they stay LONGER than normal customers? If so, it runs contrary to premise 2 which describes a general trend in customer's lingering behavior. The customer attracted might sit on the stools for a LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNG time without spending much on food. No turnover, no money!

C points out this paradox and C is the correct answer.

作者: colasama 时间: 2011-6-12 23:50
楼上高手！！豁然开朗~~哈哈~虽然不太同意是must be true type of Q

关键在题目的问法
The argument is vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that it gives reason to believe that it is likely that

需要细细品位~~

作者: sdcar2010 时间: 2011-6-13 00:27
True. More like a Most Strongly Supported type, which is one grade lower of must-be-true type in term of not allowing outside information and repeating what is said in stimulus.

作者: singsing030 时间: 2011-8-12 11:12
i think the "Its profits would increase" is very confusing, which made me pick D because C doesn't mention anything about profit.

作者: AlohaDJ 时间: 2011-8-12 16:42
最初也错选了D，看完解释才明白。。

D选项，1)使得stimulus里celebrities的相关信息成为摆设，而经验告诉我们CR原文里的每句话都不多余；2) sales=price*number, D选项只涉及了price(单价)，即逗留时间短的顾客花费少,但number(翻台率)并未告知, So,我们有理由反驳说，即便每个客人逗留时间短花费少,但客人来的快走的快,用餐人数还多了呢，也许因为翻台率高而增多的人数可以compensate for每拨客人较少的花费,这样的话,最终有可能sales (profits) rise, 对原文是support而不是weaken了。

作者: witty1 时间: 2011-10-27 20:36
请问7楼您说的stimulus是什么意思？谢！

作者: intruder 时间: 2013-8-20 14:52

:o:o:o:o

作者: zr_rr 时间: 2013-9-13 15:16

sdcar2010 发表于 2011-6-13 00:27
True. More like a Most Strongly Supported type, which is one grade lower of must-be-true type in ter ...

多谢，豁然开朗！

作者: oubao918 时间: 2013-9-16 21:40
谁能解释一下E是什么意思啊？为什么感觉E也有道理啊？就是高椅子多了视野里就只看得到高椅子了，还是不能比原来更容易看到明星，所以也能削弱啊

作者: oubao918 时间: 2013-9-16 21:49
顶一下。。。。

作者: 薄荷0816 时间: 2013-9-17 14:45
sales在题目中指的是销量，也就是数量。（sales price的话才是profit） C选项讨论了价格利润的问题，其实是无关项，所以不选

作者: 林子佳燕 时间: 2013-11-7 16:13
我觉得许多人选D是把问题理解错了，正如三楼的解释。其实问题不是在问如何weaken了conclusion，而是在问原文错误的相信了什么，也就是假设到底有什么问题。C明确指出文章的假设2错误的描述customer choose long table和linger的时间的关系。PS：这道题真的很难想～

作者: soulwangh 时间: 2013-11-10 15:02

AlohaDJ 发表于 2011-8-12 16:42
最初也错选了D，看完解释才明白。。D选项，1)使得stimulus里celebrities的相关信息成为摆设，而经验告诉我 ...

I like this explanation for it shows a commonly wrong judgement about logic valid.

Weaken is not to prove the polar opposite is necessary valid. Instead,it is to prove that the logic opposite is necessary valid.

The logic opposite for right is not right rather than wrong.

As for this question, no matter whether the number will be increase or decrease, the decrease of the price necessarily lead to the conclusion that the profit would not necessarily increase.

Remember, the original conclusion of the argument is the profit would necessarily increase. See the Point？

最初也错选了D，看完解释才明白。。

D选项，1)使得stimulus里celebrities的相关信息成为摆设，而经验告诉我们CR原文里的每句话都不多余；2) sales=price*number, D选项只涉及了price(单价)，即逗留时间短的顾客花费少,但number(翻台率)并未告知, So,我们有理由反驳说，即便每个客人逗留时间短花费少,但客人来的快走的快,用餐人数还多了呢，也许因为翻台率高而增多的人数可以compensate for每拨客人较少的花费,这样的话,最终有可能sales (profits) rise, 对原文是support而不是weaken了。

作者: dreamer0731 时间: 2013-12-12 02:51
sdcar2010解释的好清楚

作者: Rickyzy 时间: 2013-12-30 16:42

sdcar2010 发表于 2011-6-13 00:27
True. More like a Most Strongly Supported type, which is one grade lower of must-be-true type in ter ...

大神请问一下为什么E选项不对。。。

作者: williamkuang 时间: 2014-6-25 12:00
不知道这样理解对不对，这道题要求的是找出一个该argument的questionable assumption吧？也就是说，实际是assumption题？

作者: Hendy 时间: 2014-12-24 08:21
"The main difference between flaw and weakening questions is in the types of answers that we see. For flaw, the answers are general statements about the logic of the argument, one of which accurately characterizes the problem; for weakening, the answers are true facts about the world, one of which makes us doubt that the conclusion is true"

not necessarily.
choice (d) does say that they spend less money on food ... but it also says that they spend less time at the tables. either one of these factors could outweigh the other.

作者: Andrewlzh 时间: 2015-11-20 11:29

sdcar2010 发表于 2011-6-12 22:23
The reason to eliminate D) is that this question is a must be true type of question, meaning you can ...

请问一下，题中说了：Moreover，坐高凳子的人，用餐时间更短；
那么，C选项不是有否定前提的嫌疑么？
可能我对于C选项的理解有一定问题：
我的理解是：为看明星而来到这里的客人，不能被定义为那些lingering的人。（lingering这里我认为是形容用餐时间少的意思）
所以C选项不是就在否定文中所提到的的，高凳子用餐时间短的意思么？
求解谢谢

作者: sdcar2010 时间: 2015-11-27 09:59

Andrewlzh 发表于 2015-11-20 11:29
请问一下，题中说了：Moreover，坐高凳子的人，用餐时间更短；
那么，C选项不是有否定前 ...

Lingering means "staying." Thus, those customers spent longer time at the restaurant than an average customer and this lingering would hurt the business.

作者: Andrewlzh 时间: 2015-11-29 22:47
Wait a minute, the option C means those people who would like to sit in a higher stool and table are generalized the exception of lingering, which means that they will not spend longer time in the restaurant than an average customer. Do i misunderstand the precise mean of that option?

作者: Andrewlzh 时间: 2015-11-29 22:49

sdcar2010 发表于 2015-11-27 09:59
Lingering means "staying." Thus, those customers spent longer time at the restaurant than an avera ...

Wait a minute, the option C means those people who would like to sit in a higher stool and table are generalized the exception of lingering, which means that they will not spend longer time in the restaurant than an average customer. Do i misunderstand the precise meaning of that option?

作者: xcdamon 时间: 2016-3-8 07:51

Andrewlzh 发表于 2015-11-29 22:49
Wait a minute, the option C means those people who would like to sit in a higher stool and table a ...

我觉得这题理解的话吃饭花的时间应该是分成两部分一部分是你吃饭本来花的时间，还有一部分是吃完了逗留的时间。lingering adj. 拖延的;逗留不去的
从这题或者逻辑来说增加turn over 方法就是减少逗留的时间而跟吃饭的时间没有关系
C 说的就是这个坐在桌子上不代表增加逗留的时间
D 说的是吃东西的时间多少的关系- 我觉得是无关选项

作者: Crystal_Chai 时间: 2016-3-8 11:22
感谢分享！

作者: Crystal_Chai 时间: 2016-3-8 11:30
感谢分享！

作者: rustraff 时间: 2016-8-20 14:15
营收revenue/利润profit=(售价price-成本cost)*销量

成本售价都不变,只能是销量变化.

作者: ianwyb 时间: 2016-9-1 21:12
我觉得D是有问题的因为D选项来说虽然他们点的便宜但是换桌率快这就好比一桌点了500，但是坐了2小时，另一桌点了200，但是坐了半小时，2小时后可以赚800。所以这样还是可以提升利润的，不如C否定的直接。

作者: ianwyb 时间: 2016-9-1 21:14
我觉得D是有问题的因为D选项来说虽然他们点的便宜但是换桌率快这就好比一桌点了500，但是坐了2小时，另一桌点了200，但是坐了半小时，2小时后可以赚800。所以这样还是可以提升利润的，不如C否定的直接。

作者: bonbonjon 时间: 2016-10-15 19:59

林子佳燕发表于 2013-11-7 16:13
我觉得许多人选D是把问题理解错了，正如三楼的解释。其实问题不是在问如何weaken了conclusion，而是在问原 ...

这个回答非常切中要害啊~

作者: Bradz 时间: 2016-10-17 15:25
For D to be the correct answer, D has to prove faster turn over rate does not mean higher profit. But its argument does not necessarily prove that.

作者: Alypius 时间: 2017-4-22 17:33

Andrewlzh 发表于 2015-11-29 22:49
Wait a minute, the option C means those people who would like to sit in a higher stool and table a ...

同意！

作者: Alypius 时间: 2017-4-22 17:36

Andrewlzh 发表于 2015-11-29 22:49
Wait a minute, the option C means those people who would like to sit in a higher stool and table a ...

同意！

作者: djdyzqq 时间: 2017-10-23 23:50

林子佳燕发表于 2013-11-7 16:13
我觉得许多人选D是把问题理解错了，正如三楼的解释。其实问题不是在问如何weaken了conclusion，而是在问原 ...

同意！

作者: 么么哒不能乱用 时间: 2017-12-12 16:55

林子佳燕发表于 2013-11-7 16:13
我觉得许多人选D是把问题理解错了，正如三楼的解释。其实问题不是在问如何weaken了conclusion，而是在问原 ...

是的，这道题的难点在于问法很tricky

作者: 贝西文迅 时间: 2019-8-28 16:13
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