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标题: 【BW数据深层排名】：来自校友的心声1 [打印本页]

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 20:52
标题: 【BW数据深层排名】：来自校友的心声1
排名背景，请先看下帖：
http://forum.chasedream.com/North_American_MBA/thread-497540-1-1.html?SearchText=%E5%B0%B1%E4%B8%9A

残酷的就业形势，可以通过Ross, Fuqua, Johnson等一流商学院的就业数据来体会。
在这样的环境下，刚毕业的校友们对于自己的母校是如何评价的呢？
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/rankings/提供了每所学校大约13～15个comment。我们不看数据，纯感性的来排个名。
M7档次：
1. MIT
2. HBS
3. Stanford
4. ChicagoBooth
5. Wharton
6. Kellogg
7. Columbia

Top 16档次：
8. Yale / Hass
10. UCLA
11. Darden
12. Tuck
13. NYU Stern
14. Johnson
15. Ross
16. Duke Fuqua

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 20:52
#1 MIT
对于MIT，校友们没有一句负面评价！
这是很让人惊讶的，M7中唯一。
大家都这么满意，就第一名吧。

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 20:57
#2 HBS
HBS的校友们对于学校的不满，大致在于
1. case method。这是个很有趣的事情，因为似乎Darden也有人不满这个。
2. 氛围。可能不是每个人都适合激烈的竞争环境。

总体来说，这个学校排名第二，很少有人嫌排得太高了吧？

-Harvard Business Schoolsocial experience is awful, but I am definitely more prepared todeal with the real world now.

-The experience can be impersonal and we don't get to visit companies as part of the tuition/feeswe pay, which is what I wanted most out of the experience.

-Overall Harvard Business School was a greatexperience; my only substantial complaints would deal with their occasionallyinappropriate unyielding adherence to the case study method and the frustratingsubjectivity of their grading. Having come from an undergraduateexperience majoring in the sciences (physics), the relative lack of feedback inconjunction with forced grading curves proved quite difficult to adjust to.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 20:58
#3 Stanford

斯坦福的校友似乎都要强调一下，即便他们对于这个学校不满，他们也不相信有更好的学校了。
基于此，其实我认为给他第三名有些亏了。
但是，唉，主观排名么，希望谅解。

-Whilethe quality of teaching in the first year at Stanford is not excellent, Isuspect this is the case at most of the top research universities. Iused to gripe about this, but the second year has far exceeded my expectations.The electives at Stanford are excellent as are the extracurricular activities.I went on FIVE business school trips that opened my eyes and my network. Thisincludes examining the coffee supply chain in Guatemala,exploring healthcare innovations at the bottom of the pyramid in India, meeting with a diversity of C-levels inluxury in Paris, and debating with activists,politicians, financiers and managers in China on energy supply and demandand the environment.

-The program was extremely disappointing but at the same time, people viewStanford as so elite the brand alone is worth it. Was better for me than someof my friends because of personality and geography. And frankly I doubt any of theother top programs are much (or any) better based on talking to peers.MBA is a racket, but since everyone believes in it it's a valuable way to takea quasi-vacation.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:00
#4 Chicago Booth

针对就业的抱怨可以理解。不过第二位仁兄很有意思，居然觉得自己学得不够多？此人真的是觉得到商学院就是去学习的呢。
总体来说complaint很少，第四名。

-The financial crisis completely blindsided career services. They did notexpect the tightening up in the job market. Although job and internshipplacement remained somewhat close to previous years, it did not show how manypeople had to take second or third choices

-In a poor job market the recruiting process is overly competitive andstressful, to the point where it compromises learning in the classroom.Unfortunately, this year it felt like an intense job placement process with afew free lectures thrown in.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:03
#5 Wharton
我一直坚持认为Wharton是MBA教育的正统。当然他也有不足，如下面几位仁兄所言。

-I was surprised that the curriculum was not as strong as I expected. Iexpected that the core courses would be a very efficient, integrated “Cliff’s notes”version of everything I needed to know about starting and running a business,but it’s not there. Offsetting my disappointment with thecurriculum, however, was the opportunity to interact with students from aroundthe world. My career plans are very US-centric, but I’m very happythat I’ve been able to learn so much about the rest of the world.

-Wharton needs help with branding because it cannot leverage its undergradinstitutions the way Harvard and Stanford can. Wharton appeared to be veryacademic and quantitative before I arrived at school but during my experience,I have pursued so many leadership and student life activities that were aboveand beyond my expectations.

-I would not recommend Wharton for those seeking a purely general managementposition, however. The course offerings and expectations of employers (andcompanies interviewing on campus) are few.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:03
#6 Kellogg
Kellogg的校友对于就业服务似乎略有微词。

-I don't believe the Kellogg brand was enough to leverage me into a careerchange in a tough economic environment. Moreover, the Career Centerstaff is downright incompetent.

-Not enough career support for international students.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:05
#7 Columbia
抱怨是如此之多，我其实快怀疑，Columbia是否可以列入M7了。（原谅我的直率）
也不难理解，为何巴菲特从Columbia毕业后不怎么愿意捐助母校了。
但是它的地理位置，决定了该校稳坐很多人心目中的最佳MBA。

-Living as a student in NYC is painful unless you're (1) rich, (2) trust-fundbaby, or (3) company is paying for it.

-Overall, it's a very good program although some of the core classes are notvery good. But the experience, exposure, network and location are the key atCBS.

-Core curriculum was a complete waste of time/money. Far too much of a focus onalcohol-infused events loosely masked as "networking" instead ofactually learning. Far too much of a focus on I-banking and consulting, and ifneither are of interest to you (I came from I-banking and would NEVER return)you're on your own. Academic rigor was laughable, and forced "teamprojects" were usually unnecessary and after first semester simply becameexercises in delegation/taking turns. WAY too much overlap in certainclasses/concepts (this was a huge disappointment to me).

-Columbia hadfar less community than I expected and hoped for--a lot of students seem todisappear into the city on weekends, especially if they lived here beforeschool. The quality of students in the admitted body is uneven--I've dealt witha large number of students on team projects that do not seem to be responsible,motivated or intelligent. The business school seems to devote few resourcesoutside of finance and banking as career paths. If you want to start a businessor study strategy, the course offerings are slim.

-I find it a shame that ethics and FUNDAMENTAL economic principles were not afocus. Instead of requiring "plant operations" and marketing conceptsas core classes, how about providing all future business leaders with afoundation in various economic schools of thought!? Columbia prides itself as a prestigeinstitution, but my impression is one of a glorified trade school. My mostintellectually stimulating classes were the electives I took outside thebusiness school in other Columbiagraduate schools (and the amount of work in such classes was WELL beyond thatrequired by the b-school classes...go figure).

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:06
#8 Yale / Hass
干净，只能说干净。
此二校也许是很会找“match”的学生，毕业生对他们零抱怨。

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:06
#10 UCLA Anderson

很多人觉得UCLA要为留在Top15中而努力了。
但是他们的校友可不这么看。只有一条抱怨，对于他们的就业服务的。
给个鼓励吧，第10名。

-The career center could use a bit of improving - but this may be because thejob economy is in a slump right now, and I'm sure if UCLA Anderson receivesenough funding, it can improve many aspects of its program. However, it IS astate school - and I feel that for what I paid for, my expectations were metand exceeded.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:07
#11 UVa Darden

Darden的校友比较明确，基本上是抱怨课业太重了。
还有人对于case method不怎么match的。
总体来说，只要能认可Darden这两个特色的人，都蛮喜欢它的。第11名。

-Darden is a challenging program from both a time and intensity perspective.Although I have also had a lot of fun experiences while at Darden and have metamazing people, I would not urge someone to attend if he is looking for atwo-year vacation or a return to an undergraduate college lifestyle.

-The load of coursework and time spent preparing for classes hamper studentsinterested in entrepreneurial projects.

-Despite being a case method school, the best classes were the ones where theProfessors did a lot of teaching. The downside for me especially in the firstyear was dealing with class participation, which counted for 40-50 percent ofthe total grade. The topics were very new to me and I did not contribute wellenough. This made my grades bad and was sincerely disappointing since classparticipation was a subjective experience and students found ways to game theprofessors.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:07
#12 Tuck
对于Tuck就业服务的抱怨，是有点让我跌眼镜的。
但是抱怨的校友们也许是不够match（这三个似乎都该去Columbia的，如果能的话），并不是Tuck的问题。
第12名。

-Tuck is not a school for everyone. If you like small communities and enjoy anoutdoor place like Hanover,this is perfect. But for someone who prefers city life, it will be adisappointment.

-If you want to work in finance, our career development office is not ashelpful for positions in finance other than investment banking.

-I loved Tuck, but I would have loved it more had the career development officebeen more helpful in sourcing jobs in investment management and research. Thereneeds to be more than one person working in the Career Development Office whocovers finance career opportunities and summer opportunities for both classes.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:07
#13 NYU Stern
Stern是个好学校，因为他在纽约。

-I think Stern is a strong MBA program, and I did get a lot out of it, but I dowish the school had a slightly better reputation. Some of my frustrations withbusiness school revolve around the fact that I came to business school notwanting one of the traditional CPG marketing careers and I found that NYU'scoursework and career services were not really geared towards my interests. HadI known more about business school in general prior to going, this wouldprobably not have been a surprise to me. I did get out of it what I wanted inthe end, but it took some navigating.

-Largely worthless experience. The curriculum and course quality is awful,recruiting program is poor, student body is unexceptional. Very disappointing,would absolutely not make the same choice again.

-While the experience has been amazing (academically, professionally, andsocially), the cost of my MBA was exorbitant and my career, being anon-traditional MBA path, will not cover the loan payments. For people like mewho aren't seeking a career in finance, I would advise them to think VERYCAREFULLY before deciding to pursue an MBA because the salaries just don't payfor the education. Perhaps the payoff will be apparent several years down theline, which is what I'm hoping.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:08
#14 Cornell Johnson
对于Johnson的抱怨，似乎集中在就业上。

-During my time at the Johnson School, I've noticed adisparity in resources that the school has compared to some of the other highlyranked MBA programs.

-Cornell is not at all good for banking or private equity. I did not reallyknow that. I think it is also not good for international [students]. I thinkCornell is a great undergrad school but an average MBA school.

-Cornell's biggest issue is its location, and it is very surprising to me thatthe school doesn't do more with its career services office to overcome thatissue. There is--from my perspective, anyway--a complete lack of marketing toalumni and prospective recruiters in non-[Investment Banking] finance roles.For a school with its own hedge fund and an immersion program dedicated to"capital markets and asset management," I would expect more of anemphasis on placement within research positions on both the buy-side and thesell-side.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:08
#15 UM Ross
对Ross的抱怨也是就业上。

-I was enrolled in a three-year dual degree program focused on sustainableenterprise, and I would 100 percent encourage friends with similar interests toenroll at Michigan. If I had a friend who was interested in, say, finance andreally wanted to work on Wall Street, I would not recommend Michigan asstrongly just because Ross is known for having strengths in leadership,operations, marketing and general management, and less of a strength infinance.

-Michigan isneither a place that will present you all the resources on a platter, nor is ita name that can open doors for you by itself. While all the resources are here,it requires heavy self-initiative, which not all students have. But for thosethat like this, there's no lacking in what is available here. Michigan truly is for those who areaction-based and like everything student-initiated.

-While I enjoyed many aspects of my experience at Ross, there were some thingsthat I am concerned about; most importantly the quality of the career servicesdivision, and its efforts. Clearly, the office of career development could havedone more to further the cause of students in this tough year (While manyequally ranked and lower ranked schools did much better in terms of placements,the Ross numbers were not great).

-My MBA experience was spoiled due to bad economy and not being able to makethe career shift I wanted. Besides, I had to take a pay cut post-MBA. I wouldnot suggest MBA for a person with as much experience as I had (seven years postMS in Electrical Engineering).

-I doubt the incremental value that MBA will bring given the super-expensivetuition.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:08
#16 Duke Fuqua
很少见到Top MBA的学生如此抱怨他们学校的。考虑到Duke今年在BW的排名飙升，更让人觉得，神马“数据”，都tmd是浮云，可能还是我这个主观的更靠谱。
抱怨的范围，不仅是就业，包括学校发展战略，教育方式，学校氛围。
希望Fuqua能够加油。

The career services at Fuqua are extremely poor. Students are attracted intothe program by advertising a strong network and outstanding relationships withtop companies. As soon as the recruitment season begins, students come torealize that the number of companies coming to the campus is much much smallerthan advertised, students are encouraged by the schools Career ManagementCenter to look for jobs off campus and the much advertised career counseling isdone by second-year students, not professionals, but second-year students(often students with no U.S. job market experience).

-Simply put, whether you're an American or international student, if you wantcareer services, including counseling, strong connections to top companies, andsuccessful job placement, Fuqua is NOT for you!

-I truly enjoyed Fuqua, but sometimes I found that the social atmosphere can bevery much like college or high school.

-My biggest critique of the program has to do with the alumni network. They areextremely enthusiastic and helpful, but simply due to the age of the program(less than 40 years old) it is not as robust as I would have liked. It wasdifficult to make connections at organizations outside of the mainstream onesthat recruit on-campus. My career goals lie in sustainability, where jobs areall about networking.

-[It's] a great school, but it needs to focus more on the full-time MBAprogram, rather than opening campuses in other countries or other degreeprograms. It distracts the school from its core mission.

-My program is fast--six week courses per term. With the speed of lectures, theshorter time period to learn the material, and the structure of groupassignments, it wasn't the best way for me to grasp the information. Thissituation would leave me frustrated and sometimes questioning my decision totake the class.

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 21:08
以上数据本人随意采自校友的comment，也请其他网友火眼金睛，帮忙摘取更多有价值的信息。
如果有，我会更新的。
至于排名本身，也不必太在意了，只是个列出各学校的校友comment的顺序而已。

//bow

作者: 花花公子 时间: 2011-1-15 21:15
reserve

作者: sereinsun 时间: 2011-1-15 21:25
期待楼主完成帖子：）

作者: bigjoe 时间: 2011-1-15 21:44
非常好的思考角度~赞一个

作者: 曲宁儿 时间: 2011-1-15 22:52
挺有意思的，呵呵，感谢楼主整理~ 可惜只整理了美国的，不过我也借此看了下Cambridge的评价，挺有帮助~

作者: nhelpn 时间: 2011-1-15 23:09
Fuqua的CMC这么差嘛？偏偏我在essay里还提到被他们广告的CMC吸引呢。

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-15 23:27

Fuqua的CMC这么差嘛？偏偏我在essay里还提到被他们广告的CMC吸引呢。

-- by 会员 nhelpn (2011/1/15 23:09:08)

朋友，essay这么写没错的。
除非有其他Top的offer，不然能去当然去Duke，no brainer。我本人也是蛮喜欢Duke的。

作者: taiwaneseg 时间: 2011-1-15 23:56
我建議各位還是點進link裡去看吧，
因為有些comment是很正面的。
LZ隨機選的畢竟不是全貌，如果各位都要花這麼多$$和精力去念MBA了
功課還是得自己做，尤其這帖LZ是主觀的排名，
我相信看完這些comment，每個人會排的順序可能都不一樣。
感性排名這種東西應該是個人的事，不要太容易輕信別人而被操弄了~

作者: citibear 时间: 2011-1-16 00:32
也跟这两年的经济有关。读MBA的如果转不了行，或者拿不到更高的工资，那肯定看什么都不顺眼。名校出来如果混得比以前还不如，那肯定很痛苦地，几年之后恐怕连校友都不想/不好意思攀关系。

作者: entry2011 时间: 2011-1-16 00:39
说明一下，想看正面消息的，官网上，info session上，答疑贴上，多的是。
我从businessweek找来的这些信息，是刻意寻找负面消息，供大家参考的。
个人认为，这些的价值，并不低于铺天盖地的正面消息。

作者: bigjoe 时间: 2011-1-16 01:01
经济不好的时候找不到工作，抱怨career center肯定会增多的，其实。。。未必是career center的问题，有可能是“生意不好怪柜台”。

作者: taiwaneseg 时间: 2011-1-16 01:44

说明一下，想看正面消息的，官网上，info session上，答疑贴上，多的是。
我从businessweek找来的这些信息，是刻意寻找负面消息，供大家参考的。
个人认为，这些的价值，并不低于铺天盖地的正面消息。

-- by 会员 entry2011 (2011/1/16 0:39:29)

是很有價值，我並沒有說沒有價值，你有你自己的感性排名很好，
但個人認為，閱讀大眾在參考你個人的想法時，還是應回去原出處看比較不會有所偏頗。

作者: taiwaneseg 时间: 2011-1-16 01:55

-- by 会员 entry2011 (2011/1/16 0:39:29)

況且我認為找這些負面消息給各位參考很ok，只是你又同時給了一個自己心目中的排名。
因為你自己也強調是"主觀"的，所以我只是想提醒各位板友應自己去看看，或許他們觀受會有所不同，
提醒大家有這個可能罷了。

作者: CDJJMM 时间: 2011-1-16 02:04
谢谢楼主。good contribution!

作者: Cortega 时间: 2011-1-16 06:48
说句实话，没有绿卡想career switch留在美国实在是太难了，大家还是想想怎么把MBA和自己之前的工作经历结合起来找工作吧

作者: babydarling 时间: 2011-1-16 12:21
thanks~有参考意义

作者: strongbull 时间: 2011-1-16 12:29
负面信息能够给大家去之前提个醒啊，还是很有帮助的。多谢楼主！

作者: rickenus 时间: 2011-1-17 04:41
很有用的信息，从另外一个角度告诉我们MBA的INVESTMENT 和预期的RETURN是有很大差距的，对美国本土学生如此那么国际学生就更严峻了。我还是不理解为什么那多人来美国读MBA，难道就是为了有机会留在这里还是说回国有个金字招牌?

作者: geminist 时间: 2011-1-17 11:14
negative comments are valuable...

作者: JLivermore 时间: 2011-1-17 11:23
very good. Thank you for your effort.

作者: kevingu 时间: 2011-1-18 06:15
lz辛苦了，非常感谢哦

作者: lpdeng 时间: 2011-1-18 11:19
楼主很有创意！！谢谢啦！：）

作者: 0091 时间: 2011-9-9 17:11
这个帖子有意义。
尤其每个学校的校友都在尽力说自己的学校如何好，搞得所有新人觉得无所适从。

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