，看成了C了，不过，还是不明白。in the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels
with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables ,nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the
B
unlike mainstream American businesses, more than half of which fail, the failure rate for businesses in the amish community hovers around 5 percent
while the rate of mainsteam American businesses failing is more than half
while more than half of mainsteam American businesses fail
最后一个
summer614请将题目和序号贴全
第一个：我也不太明白。without .sth1 nor sth2...? 为什么不用the，如何才能看出要不要用the?
第二个：倒数第二个选项（while the rate of mainsteam American businesses failing is more than half）的意思不是原意，“那些失败的企业的rate超过一半”，句中的failing是用来修mainsteam American businesses ，而mainsteam American businesses用来限定rate。而原意是failure来限定rate 的。所以……
题外话：
我发现，名词的顺序调动，使得中心词的变化，往往是一个难点，是我们这些老外容易迷惑的地方。
我有个大胆的设想：句子中的每个名词都会有修饰限定解释成份的（未经证实，只是设想）；多个名词之间的限制解释，加上名词被其他成份的限制解释，通常会在位置变化上造成迷惑。
161. A wildlife expert predicts that the reintroduction of the caribou into northern Minnesota would tail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than one wolf for every 39 square miles.
(A) would fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more numerous than
(B) would fail provided the density of the timber wolf population in that region is more than
(C) should fail if the timber wolf density in that region was greater than
(D) will fail if the density of the timber wolf population in that region is greater than
(E) will fail if the timber wolf density in that region were more numerous than
164. The commission proposed that funding for the park's development, which could be open to the public early next year. is obtained through a local bond issue.
(A) that funding for the park's development, which could be open to the public early next year, is
(B) that funding for development of the park, which could be open to the public early next year, be
(C) funding for the development of the park, perhaps open to the public early next year, to be
(D) funds for the park's development, perhaps open to the public early next year, be
(E) development funding for the park, which could be open to the public early next year, is to be
第一题，我把答案看错了，，看成了C了，不过，还是不明白。
in the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels
with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables ,nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the
B
答案B没有问题：A，C，D，E的logic意思错了，A，C第二个with反了意思，C的nor也反了意思，E的or只是二者取一，也错了。
个人观点，请指正。
楼主能给XDJM们多提供一些新题目吗？大家一起练习讨论，谢谢。
）in the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels
with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables ,nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the
B
A,D的with构成了与前面否定部分的并列,变成肯定了. B的nor前应该有逗号",".
E: without 张三 or 李四应该是正确的. 否定是用OR来连接的. 但这个并列改变了题意. 题意是说:没有限制中的任何一个,也没有...with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables, nor formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels
如果简单的用without, or并列起来, 就变成:没有限制和拘束. 这样就平淡无味了.
B的 with none of...,nor让大家看起来很不习惯.
）summer614的看法有见地。
in the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels 逻辑意思应该是：驾车，住帐篷好啊，没有火车限制，也没有宾馆的这些问题（formalities, expenses and impersonality）
A.with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the 有宾馆的这些问题。
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables ,nor （虽然看着不爽，但应该是对的）
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor （nor和without 双重否定，又变成了有宾馆的这些问题）
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the 有宾馆的这些问题。
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the 逻辑意思应该是2个问题都没有，E变成了要么没有火车限制，要么没有宾馆的这些问题，而不是2者同时没有。
A，C，D，E都是必错。只有B语义上没有问题，语法上偶虽没有找到例句，但觉得不应该错。
我认为C中的nor应该是和without 平行的
就是说《without X》 《nor Y》 而不是without《X nor Y》
mariezhu mm: 越来越觉得你敏锐和仔细，总能看出问题。
不过偶又有不同看法：《without X》 《nor Y》，那么《nor Y》和《without X》在句中的作用也一样，去掉《without X》后，《nor Y》不知道在句中做什么。所以不可能《without X》 《nor Y》，所以是without《X nor Y》。
请指正。
mariezhu mm: 越来越觉得你敏锐和仔细，总能看出问题。
不过偶又有不同看法：《without X》 《nor Y》，那么《nor Y》和《without X》在句中的作用也一样，去掉《without X》后，《nor Y》不知道在句中做什么。所以不可能《without X》 《nor Y》，所以是without《X nor Y》。
请指正。
问：without《X nor Y》 后面的nor应该是继续了前面的without中的否定意思，相当于neither ... nor... 这样的话，就不是，tianwan 所说的，“没有X，但有Y”；应该是“没有X，或者也没有Y”。 我想如果要表达tianwan所说的“没有X，但有Y”可不可以写成：with no X but Y
tianwan:
E我还是有疑问:
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the 逻辑意思应该是2个问题都没有，E变成了要么没有火车限制，要么没有宾馆的这些问题，而不是2者同时没有。
如果翻译成要么没有,要么没有,那就是说结构为: without A or without B. 然后第二个without被省略掉了. 而without A or B 是说没有A或者B.(意味着两个都没有)....
我自己也晕了...
应该找本逻辑书看看?
mariezhu mm: 越来越觉得你敏锐和仔细，总能看出问题。
不过偶又有不同看法：《without X》 《nor Y》，那么《nor Y》和《without X》在句中的作用也一样，去掉《without X》后，《nor Y》不知道在句中做什么。所以不可能《without X》 《nor Y》，所以是without《X nor Y》。
请指正。
我觉得Nor是跟withoug并列. 这里的并列不是说Nor部分可以单独成句.例如:
The article is too long, nor is the style easy.
这里明显nor应该的部分跟前面并列, 但去掉前面的句子,nor部分不成立.
请指正.
这题是在考三个短语如何在with后面否定并列，我最后还是同意是B，因为她长得最好看！
但是：我翻遍了三个大全，都没有找到with none这种表达形式。：（
但C错的理由，和tianwan不一样，我觉得，without .. nor...就是错误表达形式，不需要解释。
第一题晕。。。
看了大家解释，完全同意tianwan
找到MSF新闻的一个大标题：In Southern Guinea, refugees flee without any protection nor assistance to Sierra Leone
还有一句：Recovering from Terminal Cancer Without Drugs nor Chemotherapy ...
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables ,nor
railroad前面少个and, 并列的大错
这个地方个人认为完全正确，这里确实是并列错误；with none of the restriction of a and b nor（nor前面也不能有逗号）
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
这个是nor 意思反了
另外or的连接，我认为还是without的否定意思决定这里可以用or
个人意见，欢迎指正
to mariezhu
查了那几个句子, 绝对没有闹别扭的意思. JJ请谅解.
小妹的意思仅仅是, 新闻上的东东比较灵活, 不像OG里面的东东一样死板, 一般是不能和改错的东东一样的
个人意见, 请指正
谢谢
哈，MM以为JJ会这么小气么？（也许是充大，不好意思）大家来这儿的目的就是讨论嘛
pumpkin：现在俺觉得你是对的。偶已经查了with，without，nor就是想当然没查or。其实，就是这个or。
Or：郎文：▶AND NOT◀used after a negative verb when you mean not one thing and also not another thing
He doesn't have a television or a video. Sonia never cleans or even offers to wash the dishes.
Kingsoft：[在否定结构中否定前后二者] 也不...也不
He cannot read or write.他既不会读也不会写。
Kingsoft：也不
He never smokes or drinks. 他从不吸烟，也不喝酒。
mariezhu mm的例句，既然存在，肯定有道理，但偶找不到语法依据，是不是可以认为这种用法ETS不喜欢？
钦佩zhu 和 kin 两位MM的考证精神。
Argument:
对于pumpkin: 你的例子不足以支持你的结论。
56. Architects and stonemasons, the Maya built huge palace and temple clusters without the benefit of animal transport or the wheel
In B, the active verb has shifted suggests that the light, not the motion, is the agency of action, but such a construction leaves the phrase by the rapid motion of the galaxy away from the Earth without any logical or grammatical function.
128. New hardy varieties of rice show promise of producing high yields without the costly irrigation and application of commercial fertilizer that were required by earlier high-yielding varieties
OG-249. B, the best choice, is idiomatic, clear, and without agreement errors or redundancy
从以上的黑体字中可以看出，or 连接的是两个小元素，组成一个大元素，接在without后面。所以，如果作者能给出更多的例子来，将会better你的论证过程。
对于ZHU：1)zhu 的例子能否应用于GMAT考试中，错误类比；2) zhu的例子中是两个元素并列，而此题是三个元素。
存疑~~~
等等~~~
再细看了：OG-249. B, the best choice, is idiomatic, clear, and without agreement errors or redundancy
发现，pumpkin的结论应该是正确的。without A or B!
佩服佩服！
我还是觉得是B，我觉得E的意思和B的意思有些改变，with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables 和without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables意思是不同的，前一个说是（很多）限制中的一个都没有，后面一个是说没有限制，意思上有些改变，但是with none of ..., nor没见过，mariezhu JJ能考证到这个用法，我觉得应该就可以这样用。毕竟E在意思上有原来有出入
大家讨论。。。
mariezhu 和pumpkin的考证精神让我想起了当时SBBI,braveMBA,GEMJ等大牛在一起讨论的景象。
呵呵，二位也都是NN，提出问题和分析都很有见地，佩服！！
没有定论吗?
刚查到一个用法
来源:美国传统词典)
传统规则要求 nor用于 neither后面，在这种表达中，否定放在第二个部分： 他既不能也（不用 or) 不愿走。Nor在当两个独立句子中的第二个也被否时被用，在这种用法中，它也引起第二个句子主语和助动词的转变：
He cannot find anyone now, nor does he expect to find anyone in the future;
然而当第一个否定词用 not或 never表达，且当第二个连结部分是动词短语时， nor的用法通常可选择：
He will not permit the change, or (or nor) even consider it
当一个名词短语以形式 no this or that被 no，or引入时比 nor更常用：
He has no experience or interest (less frequently nor interest) in chemistry. 对于化学他既没经验也没兴趣（很少用 nor interest) 。
Or在下面这种情况下比 nor常用，如一个名词短语、形容词短语或副词短语被 not引导时：
He is not a philosopher or a statesman.
他既不是哲学家也不是政治家
We were not rich or happy.
我们既不富有也不快乐
如此说来, C的用法: without...nor...没有without...or...优(注意:没有说前者不能用). 本来我很偏爱B, 但B有两个致命错误: 一. 两个并列无"and"连接. 二. nor 后面没有接句子,跟的是名词, Nor前面的逗号","看来就很可疑.
看来只能选E了.....
liu的引用很好！呵呵。
C的nor后面没有定冠词the，这个会带来意思上的差别吗？
经过讨论，觉得pumpkin美眉说得有道理
自己又读了一遍确实without or听起来要好一些
我也找到一点or和nor的解释，分享
Both nor and or are Standard after an initial no or not, although or is more frequent today: No running nor [or] shouting is permitted in the corridors. Not wheedling nor [or] threatening could move her. Typically nor is Standard after neither, particularly in Oratorical contexts, Edited English, and other Formal uses, as in Neither her father nor her mother attended her recital. But or can also occur there. Nor is also Standard in other negative statements, as in I didn’t want dessert, nor did I want coffee. Nor meaning than is Nonstandard and regional at best, and many would label it Substandard instead: She’s no brighter nor I am.
我觉得加the好，因为formalities等所属of hotel，所以sth of sth前一个sth可认为是特指，一般加the。我留意了一下，这种情况前加the的很多。
mariezhu MM好厉害，经常找一些常人找不到的好东东！谢谢!
D, the best choice, uses a correct sequence of present and future indicative verb forms--predicts, will fail, and is--in the three related clauses. Density, an abstract "mass" noun, is logically construed with greater than. In A and B, would fail disagrees with the other verbs in tense and mood. Choice A misconstrues density with more numerous than, and B uses the pretentious and illogical word provided for if m a conditional clause after a negative idea (would fail)(provided不能用于否定). C's should fail and was are confusing and inconsistent with predicts. C and E use the absurd phrase timber wolf density. (The wolves are not dense; their population is dense.) E also uses an inconsistent subjunctive form, were, and misconstrues density with more numerous than.
Provided: conj.
On the condition; if:
在…的条件下；如果：(只能用于表达肯定思想的句子中)
will pay the bonus provided the job is completed on time.
如果工作及时完成的话将发奖金
D
B
the answer guanweigong gave
mariezhu 发表于 2004-4-25 15:47
找到MSF新闻的一个大标题：In Southern Guinea, refugees flee without any protection nor assistance to ...
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