ChaseDream

标题: In @ Wharton 纠结中，请教 [打印本页]

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-28 01:58
标题: In @ Wharton 纠结中，请教
我申请了4所，前3名（H/S/W）和Yale。R1拿了Y；R2拿了W。
一般应该不会在Y和W之间纠结的吧，毕竟W明显“高”一个档次。我的纠结有特殊原因，诚心向对这两所学校了解的同学请教。

当时申请Y是因为我将来的目标很清楚，想做nonprofit，Y就是以这个著称的；而在前3名中，H/S在这方面也比较强；W嘛，虽然所有学校都会宣称自己也注重社会领袖，但对W的主要印象还是一堆finance people。和Wharton学生里面nonprofit背景的也聊过，大部分也注重于公益领域的经济发展、投资类。而且也告诉我，在Wharton，也会觉得有点“寂寞”。

个人背景是复旦本科、北大研究生，研究生期间在World Bank/IFC做了2年项目、Top咨询5年，中间停薪留职出去做nonprofit半年，觉得国内做公益的环境不理想，自己没有ready，又回了公司。回到咨询公司以后，也做了不少政府和公益领域的项目，例如为慈善基金会制订战略啊，受公司资助带领项目组在四川地震灾区做重建规划和筹款等。能够感受到国内做公益挑战重重，我现在没有答案，要怎样做才能真的有impact。真心地想去国外看看，学习一下，而且network对做公益慈善非常有帮助。于是虽然已经年纪一大把了，已经post MBA的职位和收入，还是下定决心申请了。

当时犹豫过要不要申Wharton，一方面对Wharton人总体印象很好，比起H更符和我的性格，比起S整体年龄也偏大，人偏成熟；另一方面也确实因为我R1只申了Yale，在W deadline之后才拿到offer，所以没有把握的情况下，多申了一所。

多年工作的感受是，在一个地方是否有learning，是否愉快，全在于周围的“人”是否inspirational，是否契和。面试时选了一个北京的GG，corporate背景，google一下名字发现也业余做志愿者，个人觉得比起finance的同学，可能更为认同我的经历和想法，果然聊得挺好。我很坦诚地谈了我的想法，后来变成他assure我，在Wharton也对social cause有很多支持的program，学生也很diversify等等。

所以现在很纠结。恐怕没有亲身经历，很难做选择吧。
诚心听听大家意见。

作者: Seraph1980 时间: 2010-3-28 02:23
楼主去yale吧，您这么高的境界，又是post-mba的档次了，就不要去wharton追求铜臭了。

作者: asap 时间: 2010-3-28 02:33
支持去YALE,更符合LZ的目标~~

big cong~

作者: online2w 时间: 2010-3-28 02:45
支持LZ选Y，无他原因，就是我读完LZ自我描述后的感觉。

作者: jingyinan 时间: 2010-3-28 02:58
to have the impact, you need the capacity; yale teaches you how to have the impact, but wharton gives you the capacity. Ideally, I hope you will get in H/S and achieve the best of both worlds. I wish there are more ppl like you in china. God bless u.

Btw, Wharton is good with not only finance; check out its annual mba career report, and compare it with H/S's. no school gets into Top 3 by being good with only finance.

作者: moregel 时间: 2010-3-28 03:03

to have the impact, you need the capacity; yale teaches you how to have the impact, but wharton gives you the capacity. Ideally, I hope you will get in H/S and achieve the best of both worlds. I wish there are more ppl like you in china. God bless u.

Btw, Wharton is not only good with only finance; check out its annual mba career report, and compare it with H/S's. no school gets into Top 3 by being good with only finance.

-- by 会员 jingyinan (2010/3/28 2:58:35)

I love jingyinan's first line.

You might learn "how to impact" via many other ways; but building up your capacity might be a more efficient use of your two years' time.

作者: david50gray 时间: 2010-3-28 03:17
在只以top consulting, IB, PE, HF论英雄的商学院里，LZ的确是比较另类了。相信LZ做出什么决定都不会有错的。

作者: driftysnail 时间: 2010-3-28 03:53
忠实读者来顶一顶。

作者: freer 时间: 2010-3-28 04:09
wharton抑或Yale，没有一个是错误的选择。Big Cong!

作者: cannedpineapple 时间: 2010-3-28 04:18
I know exactly what you're talking about. It can sometimes get 'quite lonely' if you want to do non-profit, and many business-school students (I'll be surprised if this is limited to Wharton) are focused on very corporate (investing, etc) areas of social impact.

I also don't think that it's as simple as impact vs capacity. Many business school students worry too much about capacity, but they forget that capacity seldom has the power to inspire others. So they become very competent at crunching numbers and implementing frameworks and deciding who to help, but become very poor at becoming ambassadors of social impact, and inspiring others to follow their path.

Because of this, I don't generally think the business school environment is very suitable for those looking to do non-profit. It's even less so, I think, for a Chinese student going to business school. I have met very, very few Chinese business school students looking to go into non-profit (regardless of school), so you might find yourself with very little environment support in this case.

In case it isn't clear yet, I think environment support is crucial. Before you can inspire others, you often need first to surround yourself with people who can inspire you too. For this, I've looked outside of business school. After all, let's not forget that Wharton is a part of UPenn, an amazing ivy league institution.

... And at UPenn, I've found an AMAZING non-profit leadership program. It is basically a 'professional school' for non-profit professionals. You need two years minimum work experience to apply. There are students from Penn, Princeton, etc (very good undergraduate institutions) there, and they've come from jobs like teaching, social venturing, and so on. Yes, they know how to have an impact, and they know how to inspire each other.

(The person who started the programme, btw, is a former Wharton professor, who decided that he did not have the support he needed at Wharton, and so he left the school, took a job that paid about 70% less, and is now educating the next generation of non-profit leaders (including, ironically, Wharton students like me!), in a building right next door to Wharton. Yes, he surely understands the importance of having an environment that suits you, even when you earn less to do the exact same thing.)

http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/npl/

So essentially what I've done is to tap on the resources of this other programme, and especially of the amazing students in this other programme, to inspire myself. I've taken two classes there so far, and would have taken more had I discovered both the programme, and my interest in non-profit, sooner. This is something you can consider. If you come here, perhaps you can take 3-4 classes at this other programme, and interact more with the students from there, while also positioning yourself in other ways with the Wharton degree. It's not perfect, I know, but it's probably better than trying to do non-profit purely in a business school setting, where many of your classmates (and again, particularly those of your classmates who share your background in terms of nationality, profession, and so on) will not be able to provide you any support at all for your dreams.

Feel free to contact me if you want to chat more offline. I know most of the time I ask people to post online if they have questions, but when you truly have an issue that is so unique and in my opinion so worthy of support, I'm happy to talk to you offline too.

Good luck,
Jason

作者: losade7 时间: 2010-3-28 04:20
Y for sure.

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-28 10:25
很感谢大家的回复，有些真的挺Insightful，尤其是Jason。其实Jason提出了一个非常critical的问题，就是当时，我何必申请B-school呢，学了多年Eco，又做了五六年的管理咨询，如果对nonprofit和public这么有兴趣，干脆申请public school好了。我当然可以说出一些很politically correct的原因，但其实主要的原因是考虑到申请的难度。大家都知道申请时有人看essay，有人recommend，有人介绍学校的细节会多么有帮助，以我的环境，top B-school的朋友、很close能真正committ时间帮助我的多，自己的背景成功率多大参照一下同事们心里也比较有底；但public school就得我孤军奋战摸索，重新整合资源了，时间不允许，年纪也大了，还是早点出去好，就选择了一条成功率较高的道路（很实际吧。。。）

其实两个都是很好的学校，相信对我都会很有帮助。这算是幸福的纠结吧？只是要花很多银子和两年时间，容我再纠结一阵子。

作者: ext3 时间: 2010-3-28 10:42
此等强帖一定要打点酱油~

作者: 天蝎座1107 时间: 2010-3-28 11:13

此等强帖一定要打点酱油~

-- by 会员 ext3 (2010/3/28 10:42:17)

LS打酱油控监定完毕

Big Cong to LZ！最近这沃顿雨下的...

作者: 犀利哥 时间: 2010-3-28 11:13
佩服

作者: Cortega 时间: 2010-3-28 12:29

偶像啊，我原来学的也是Eco，将来也想在non-profit领域工作，当时也是纠结是申请MPA还是MBA更好，后来感觉自己还是对如何应用商业技巧在非盈利领域方面更感兴趣，所以是申请的商学院。我以前在国内NGO也做过，环境确实不是很友好，做NGO这行的靠政府政策支持还是很重要的

很感谢大家的回复，有些真的挺Insightful，尤其是Jason。其实Jason提出了一个非常critical的问题，就是当时，我何必申请B-school呢，学了多年Eco，又做了五六年的管理咨询，如果对nonprofit和public这么有兴趣，干脆申请public school好了。我当然可以说出一些很politically correct的原因，但其实主要的原因是考虑到申请的难度。大家都知道申请时有人看essay，有人recommend，有人介绍学校的细节会多么有帮助，以我的环境，top B-school的朋友、很close能真正committ时间帮助我的多，自己的背景成功率多大参照一下同事们心里也比较有底；但public school就得我孤军奋战摸索，重新整合资源了，时间不允许，年纪也大了，还是早点出去好，就选择了一条成功率较高的道路（很实际吧。。。）

其实两个都是很好的学校，相信对我都会很有帮助。这算是幸福的纠结吧？只是要花很多银子和两年时间，容我再纠结一阵子。

-- by 会员 Mimi_Beijing (2010/3/28 10:25:13)

作者: Jeffie218 时间: 2010-3-28 15:35
Mimi，我是在你发掌中细沙的帖子的时候开始关注你的，果然没有看错是个大牛，恭喜你了。其实我自己也是，厌倦了金融圈的生活，想将来做nonprofit，也在筹划申请MBA。发现大家都是奔着consulting, IB去的，直到看到你Yale的帖子后才发现找到一个志同道合的人。其实我那时候就想联系你，但是想到你还在等R2就算了，呵呵。我也是在北京的，很想认识一下你，既然大家有共同的理想，真的希望以后能一起努力把国内的nonprofit做好。

作者: MBADilemma 时间: 2010-3-28 16:56
选Wharton吧，至少可以结识更强大的金融圈校友，以后融资更容易一些吧我猜想。Yale MBA圈内可能多一些志同道合的人，但Wharton那么多的校友，也一定有自己很不错的non-profit的圈子。

退一步说，如果未来想转换goal, Wharton的MBA也会有更大的助力，也不会让你后悔此刻的选择。

作者: jingyinan 时间: 2010-3-28 20:31

-- by 会员 Mimi_Beijing (2010/3/28 10:25:13)

无论你怎么选择自己，都很支持你！不管Yale或者Wharton，楼主的那份ideal让我非常敬佩。如果LZ选择去Wharton，麻烦告诉一声。

作者: necroosu 时间: 2010-3-28 21:40
来Wharton吧。W虽然以热血Finance成名，但其多元化的专业选择和可利用资源都会对你的未来影响深远。

作者: davidhuang 时间: 2010-3-29 00:04
欣赏这种追求自己所求的气度.

作者: 我是业余游侠 时间: 2010-3-29 01:50
楼主已经到了更高一级的境界了，赞一个！

作者: windboy 时间: 2010-3-29 03:51
I'd recomend Wharton over Yale, if no scholarship from y, though both are great, so congrats.

1) MBA is about buying an option. wharton will offer you more than y, in terms of school reputation, networks, etc. school ranking and reputation is very important. technicalities are less important in your case. don't expect to mba will ever change you fundamentally. it is like a club membership.

2) you may change your career goal in the future, so better go with the one that will return you more in a highly volatile environment.

作者: cannedpineapple 时间: 2010-3-29 05:30
In case you guys don't know already, I actually disagree with everything windboy has to say (see my thread if you want to know more... last time I disagreed with him, he showed me up as the high school kid that I was, who had never taken stats. Yikes! Hope y'all don't hold it against me that your great CD 版主 is not that smart after all..). Anyway so take my words with a hugeeeeee pinch of salt

1) All of your Pt #1 makes sense only when you view it from a certain lens. For someone going into non-profit, a non-profit director alumni is, I don't know, three million times more useful to your network than a PE CEO or something similar. There could be many more such alumni in Yale than at Penn. I have no idea. Suffice to say at least that it's not as obvious as you would like it to be. I also not only expected, but also experienced an MBA changing me fundamentally. Maybe I'm just the exception here so you can ignore me... But I've learnt far more here than I have in any other two years of my life. Actually now that I think about it, maybe it means my ROI for these two years is higher than yours. Sometimes there is a benefit to not being so smart, eh?

ROI is higher since the base that I begin with is lower!

2) I absolutely 100% agree with you. Our career goals are highly volatile. So we should diversify and strengthen the areas in which we're weak, so we can be more flexible about our goals in future and have more return in a highly volatile environment. To do this, it is only logical that all the non-profit people should do MBAs, and all the corporate people should do non-profit degrees- in case each set of individuals ever want to switch over to the other side. Consequently, I assume in your past pre-MBA life you were a non-profit guy, then. Power to you, for diversifying your skill set so broadly! I know I may not have the guts to make such a bold move..

PS: this is what happens when two U of C alums 'discuss issues'.

As I said, take everything with a pinch of salt.

LZ, glad to know my (very lengthy!) post was of help to you.

I'd recomend Wharton over Yale, if no scholarship from y, though both are great, so congrats.

1) MBA is about buying an option. wharton will offer you more than y, in terms of school reputation, networks, etc. school ranking and reputation is very important. technicalities are less important in your case. don't expect to mba will ever change you fundamentally. it is like a club membership.

2) you may change your career goal in the future, so better go with the one that will return you more in a highly volatile environment.

-- by 会员 windboy (2010/3/29 3:51:55)

作者: ruoyang 时间: 2010-3-29 09:52
Mimi, 首先恭喜一下。

我也是做了1年多HR consulting,现在在上海世博工作，接下来会去MBA,而且已经拿了columbia的offer.我可以想象你说的lonely的感觉，但是我因为在纽约住过一年多，而且对Columbia其它的program也比较了解，所以就像Jason说的，可能会想多利用一些bschool之外的资源，不管是campus，还是nyc。

有一点我想通了，其实走我们这条路的，lonely是必然的--bshool的氛围和中国现阶段的发展水平都注定不可能有成千上万的人跟我们想法类似，互相inspire，齐刷刷地往non-profit奔去。只要不是想跟着众人一起走一条铺设好的corporate康庄大道的人，都是要做好自己设计道路自己寻找志同道合伙伴的准备。

不管你做什么决定，都祝福你。

作者: Cortega 时间: 2010-3-29 13:37

正因为那些商业知识在哪里学到的都差不了多少，所以对楼主来说他应该更看重MBA这个PROGRAM里学生，老师，校友和管理机构在NON-PROFIT这方面的资源和投入。在这点上无疑YALE要比W强。

-- by 会员 windboy (2010/3/29 3:51:55)

作者: Seraph1980 时间: 2010-3-29 13:51
同意楼上，此外，Yale这个大环境也一定比Penn好，楼主需要更多的公共管理、法学院等商学院之外的network，这些方面Y都强得多。

作者: olivermu 时间: 2010-3-29 13:58
其实，我觉得non-profit和公益慈善还是有所区别的。后者的目的非常明确，让更多需要帮助的人得到帮助。而个人的资源和影响力最大化才是最重要的。很好的例子就是Celebrity Apprentice中的募资比赛。Non-profit涵盖的范围则更宽，可以是公益，也可以是个人的职业取向和发展，比如政府机构、事业单位。

从lz的动机和目的来说，可能与前者更接近，所以我不认为yale在non-profit这方面的优势可以成为选择去哪儿进行长达两年商学院学习的决定因素。

作者: olivermu 时间: 2010-3-29 14:12
觉得Yale和Wharton的non-profit program和network有本质区别，我不认为这是明智的看法。对决定回国发展的朋友来说，国外的资源其实是很难用得上的。商业上如此， non-profit的慈善和公益更是如此。

如果有人真正投身做过公益的话，会知道在国内，公益事业面临着比比商业远远大得多的限制和困难。做志愿者容易，做事业难。比如，申请一个慈善基金，时间的漫长和审批的复杂都是难以想象的。

作者: REgirl07 时间: 2010-3-29 14:47
I am a rd 1 admit currently working in the U.S. Your question really reminded me of a blog I read when I was applying, so I decided to sign up for this forum to share it with you.

http://futurembagirl.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html

The blog was written by a Wharton '06 grad who went to Bridgespan (a very prestigious non-profit consulting firm in the U.S., closely affiliated with Bain) then transitioned into another non-profit role more recently. You can really gain a sense of how someone with her background and aspiration came through the process. I think her post below sums it up nicely. In the end, I think business school is more than just about building a network, or learning certain things. It's about stepping outside of your comfort zone and challenge yourself in ways that you otherwise wouldn't have done. It's about meeting people who are completely different from you and who will challenge your most basic beliefs. Not every bit of it is necessarily enjoyable, but it is absolutely necessary to transform you into a person that will better meet future challenges. So I'd say, go wherever would challenge you the most and would force you to grow the most. Best of luck!

"I was feeling all nostalgic since I’ve been blogging for two years, so I was looking at my first couple of posts and ran across this:
What do I want to be when I grow up? I would like to continue to work
in the nonprofit world (once you go nonprofit you never go back!). I am
interested in researching how entire industries and fields evolve, and in
organizational leadership. I hope to work at a think tank or a nonprofit
consulting firm.

During my tenure at Wharton, I’ve tried to do EVERYTHING besides what I talked about doing in my essays. I even (unsuccessfully – Thank God) tried to be an investment banker. This year, I applied to a nonprofit consulting firm because I was interested in consulting and I thought the nonprofit twist would be a good fit.

It wasn’t until I interviewed with the consulting firm that I remember my passion for nonprofits. For a year and a half I’ve talked about my work in terms of achievements and responsibilities but anyone who’s ever worked in the nonprofit sector knows those things – the numbers of your job – aren’t why your there. You’re there because you believe in the mission. You’re there because you see your work as contributing more to the world than additional profits. So during my interview with the nonprofit consulting firm I actually got to talk about the mission of work I did and my passion for it, and it reignited my commitment for the field. It reminded me what I wanted to be when I grow up.

After first round interviews with the nonprofit consulting firm, I started to feel like my recruiting journey was sort of like the Wizard of Oz. I had to go on this rocky journey and went through many trials. But in the end, I find out “There’s No Place Like Home.” And after the first round with the nonprofit consulting firm, I decided I was going back to the nonprofit sector.

So what happened, you ask? I got the offer from THE JOB. I’ll be working for the nonprofit consulting firm, Bridgespan in San Francisco. I’m extremely excited about it.

My journey to find my next job has been rocky. But looking back on it, I realize that every single bit of it was necessary. I learned how to network from IB recruiting, and from consulting recruiting, I learned how to do the dreaded case. Both of things were necessary for me to get the job at Bridgespan. Most importantly, I was reminded what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m still pretty bitter about how myopic and narrow-minded people in the for profit sector can be about the work done in the nonprofit sector. And I still intend to talk to Career Management about some of my concerns.

But I’m really happy about where I’m going. All through the recruiting process with Bridgespan I felt this fit, not unlike I felt when applying to Wharton. I knew that’s where I should be. I’m extremely excited that I’ll have the opportunity to do work about which I’m extremely passionate.

Because after all, There’s No Place Like Home."

作者: keepdreaming 时间: 2010-3-29 16:36
毫无疑问, 如今中国各级政府最重视的还是GDP,经济发展,以及漂亮的统计数字.要在这种环境下做Non-Profit, 可想而知其中的难度.

欣赏敬佩LZ的勇气和实力, good luck!

作者: windboy 时间: 2010-3-29 20:04
even in non-profit, there are many functions, finance, marketing, operation, management etc. in this sense, it is not that different from other business.

the biggest prop for y over w to me is its econ department, which is huge in the filed of econometrics, though w has an awesome department as well.

am in finance industry, have met a bunch of w alumni, none yale.

it is like a bet, you'd go with a result of higher expectation. expection of utility of course, so it all depends on what your utility fucntion is, as people replied have mostly summarised the input factors.

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-29 22:26
I am so thankful to everyone. As a consultant, I am super busy during weekdays. I am still in the office now.

Will read all posts in detail and reply afterwork.

Thanks a million to everyone, sincerely!

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-30 01:17
我是天秤座AB型血，非常纠结的那种。

无论哪个option都是很好的，我很感谢大家为我出谋划策。如果有人看过我之前一些别的贴子，知道我是谁（after all this is a small circle），或是看过我的博，会知道无论去哪个学校，对我来说，都是很好的事，一点点走出生活的阴影，重新开始新生活。而我也已经过了会后悔的年龄，去哪个，都不会后悔。毕竟，生活还在于自己塑造，讨论现在去Wharton好，还是去Yale好，就好象当年接受保送研究生，还是直接工作一样。现在想来，我在国内读研究生的收获有限，尤其最终并没有走学术道路，那三年有点浪费，但是，在北大所度过的三年，依然对我有特殊的意义。毕竟，人生不是用公式计算出来的。

其实最终就是两点，第一，我对将来回国做nonprofit有多么committed；第二，如果决定回国做nonprofit相关的工作，W比起Y更好在哪里，或者反之。

对于第一点，尽管不是100% sure，谁也不能100% sure，也差不多90%吧。只是不知道要怎样走。因为观察过、尝试过不少道路，都觉得不太work，不太inspirational。原因很多，鉴于这不是讨论中国的nonprofit，我就不多说了。所以想去国外look around。在MBA期间，肯定会努力多take 一些这样的course，多做几个intern，看看同学中有这个背景的多mingle下。

对于第二点，我就比较茫然了。大概谁也说不清，在中国做nonprofit，究竟是一个顶级商学院的brand name, solid training和network有帮助；还是一个虽然二线，但更专门重视nonprofit学校的exposure和network更有帮助。

我对Jason版主说，我自己再做下research，这样和他聊时可以更好地utilize他的时间。其实我周围的Wharton校友很多，同事、同学一大堆；但是几乎不认识Yale的同学。。。这也是信息不对称的原因之一。也不知道这是为什么呀。。。是巧合吗？其实很想亲自去看下，但真的排不出时间来了。。。

不管怎样，很感谢大家。无论去了哪个。

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-30 01:20
BTW，如果大家有关于中国management consulting的问题，请尽管问，我也可以分享下以回报CD。

作者: cannedpineapple 时间: 2010-3-30 01:51
This post really sums it up. Thanks REgirl07.

During my tenure at Wharton, I’ve tried to do EVERYTHING besides what I talked about doing in my essays. I even (unsuccessfully – Thank God) tried to be an investment banker. This year, I applied to a nonprofit consulting firm because I was interested in consulting and I thought the nonprofit twist would be a good fit.

It wasn’t until I interviewed with the consulting firm that I remember my passion for nonprofits. For a year and a half I’ve talked about my work in terms of achievements and responsibilities but anyone who’s ever worked in the nonprofit sector knows those things – the numbers of your job – aren’t why your there. You’re there because you believe in the mission. You’re there because you see your work as contributing more to the world than additional profits. So during my interview with the nonprofit consulting firm I actually got to talk about the mission of work I did and my passion for it, and it reignited my commitment for the field. It reminded me what I wanted to be when I grow up.
-- by 会员 REgirl07 (2010/3/29 14:47:40)

作者: rosaregale 时间: 2010-3-30 05:56
不知楼主读过这个blog没有，一个yale mba 写的，我读了挺受启发
http://cn.wsj.com/gb/yal.asp

我去过这两所学校参观，两家还都没给我offer呢所以比较公正的说说我近期调查的积累：
差别是很大的，首先wharton class size很大，得有yale四倍吧，本科生和mba混在一起，楼和设备都很新；yale 相比小多了，设施也土气，不过yale学生感觉更加亲切友善，大部分都有non profit背景。wharton 是老牌的名校，yale 商学院比较年轻，wharton校友圈子之强大是yale比不了的。在美国人心目中，wharton排名第三左右，而yale som就到了10名到20名之间。费城和纽黑文的区别也不小，费城可能稍微更适合居住，两边都不是大家梦中的理想城市，不过离纽约都很近很方便。我觉得yale环境比较适合楼主长远目标，在那里楼主应该会比较容易结识志同道合的朋友；而在wharton大家主要是想去做banking/consulting，楼主意志若不坚定，搞不好也被他们拉进去改做投行了. 哦还有，我看yale毕业生统计，只有不到10%的yalie出了商学院直接去做non profit, 好像多半还是先去做banking/consulting，或许若干年后再回到公益事业。

恭喜楼主并祝愿楼主借mba台阶实现以后的理想。

作者: Ken_Hsu 时间: 2010-3-30 10:10
哈哈，可是你却要走和他们不一样的路。。。问题之所在啊

其实我周围的Wharton校友很多，同事、同学一大堆；但是几乎不认识Yale的同学。。。

-- by 会员 Mimi_Beijing (2010/3/30 1:17:01)

作者: driftysnail 时间: 2010-3-30 10:19
找几个Yale的在校生聊聊吧。你们FIRM去年不是有个去了Yale么。。

作者: olivermu 时间: 2010-3-30 20:28
其实，我觉得，lz需要再drill down 的，还有几个问题：

1、自己想从事的non-profit的内涵到底是什么？这是个很笼统的概念，是World Bank，外国政府，国际组织，UN，慈善组织，UNESCO？还是social entrepreneurship，自己发起或者参与发起的独立的基金、机构，比如比尔盖茨基金、壹基金？从长期来讲，你是更多地想从事一份相对轻松、不用像投行、咨询那样完全失去自己生活，同时又能有一定社会意义的工作，还是说真正能够有impact，在一定程度上帮助到或者影响到社会的事业？比如前段时间有个bigbenzhang的帖子，他组织了一些活动，旨在帮助社会正确认识同性恋这个群体。这也是non-profit的一种形式。
如果是前者，不需要MBA只需要合适的机会；至于后者，则需要你提升个人的perspective以及在国内的人脉和影响力，那么这也许是可以通过MBA获得的。
and in what sector ？
non-profit也分很多，也需要有foucus。医疗卫生，贫富差距，教育，动物保护组织，环境，aids，or human rights等等，哪些才是lz真正想involve的呢？不同的细分,需要的知识、技能、关系和要打交道的政府机构差异是很大的。

2、when go for non-profit？right after MBA？and how do you measure your success and contribution？ What's your expectation and goal? What makes you think you are unprepared?

3、做non-profit，你目前最欠缺的几样东西是什么？而MBA（either Y or W）多大程度上能够帮到你？是不是一定要通过MBA来弥补？
学习新的模式和成功的方法？一些workable的模式只能通过MBA课堂学到吗？我非常怀疑。也许跟一些真正从事non-profit工作的人进行深度交流，可能比2年MBA能学到更多更实用的东西。而这样的人（特指中国人），会在商学院遇到吗？

如果lz是想先依托一些大的组织和机构去从事non-profit的话，那么哪些机构是你的target？你可以试着跟这样的组织机构取得联系，听听他们的意见。从他们的角度，看看MBA是不是有帮助？Y or W的MBA是不是有差别？
你也可以了解下Y or W毕业生各有多少是去non-profit 而且是在你打算从事的方向（去政府的MBA我相信也被算作是non-profit，但显然不是lz的方向）？跟他们接触，可能会更受益，虽然我觉得这样的人在MBA中会很少很少。

个人观点是，无论盈利还是非盈利，想做一些开创性的事业，最重要的还是net work和资源的积累，尤其是商界和政府层面的，大家都知道的例子比如王利芬、李开复。至于说到strategy，我觉得在政策、资源都受到很多限制的国内，就像在一个不充分竞争的市场上，能走的路其实很窄，恐怕很难去谈什么strategy的。Street smarts and networking weigh much more than book smarts，while the value you can deliver is built on your hands-on experience. 这是我不成熟的看法。

作者: sunjie38 时间: 2010-3-31 21:02
别犹豫了，autumn。要做non profit，就去Yale！Wharton没有这种氛围！

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-3-31 22:00
Alex 同学给我留点privacy好不。。。

作者: rosaregale 时间: 2010-4-1 03:18
lz 决定没有？在businessweek看到类似问题，贴一段过来，lz可以去看看：
http://forums.businessweek.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=bw-bschools&tid=84781

There isn't a bad decision here, really...better/worse perhaps, but not 'wrong'.

I do, however, want to avoid straying too far from the original topic. My original suggestion to the OP is to consider both programs and frame of all of these factors and data points in respect to what is of personal importance (career goals, relevant opportunities, etc) and come to a decision. Selecting a business school should be inherently a deeply personal decision and I fear too many make this decision based on an arbitrary ranking in some magazine.

To the OP; by this point, you have written some pretty compelling admissions essays stating 'Why MBA/Why Kellogg/Why Yale'. I would suggest you go back and re-read those essays. What was it that attracted you to the programs in the first place, which one do you find more convincing? Which school is going to better help you accomplish those goals?

作者: stq 时间: 2010-4-1 12:25
Vote for W

1 就你目前的背景/工作经验，如果想做中国的non-profit，完全可以直接转行做，没必要读MBA

2 既然你依然考虑去读MBA，那么你的目的，就是增加自己各方面的知识/能力/技术，让自己将来能更好的做这一行。换句话说，你就是冲着学习那些技能去的。。而W能给你一个更好的教育。。

3 虽然Yale校友里面做慈善方面的人多，但在中国范围内还是非常非常少的。。
我觉得你做慈善机构，特别是到了高层，一个避不开的问题就是raising money/create impact
W校友在中国人数更多点，相对位居高位的校友也更多点，更容易在中国的环境下打开圈子，借助他们的力量替你做宣传

而在中国想借助那些Yale在欧美做慈善的校友力量发展，困难度比较高，因为他们那些组织在国内力量很小，
而且很多时候也未必合适，因为由于政治理念上的不同，中国政府并不是很欢迎许多国外的NGO

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-4-1 13:48
Dear all, I was so impressed by the depth of the discussions here. It's amazing!

The only reason that I have not make my decision is... As a consultant, I am overwhelmed by work during weekdays. I plan to digest all information and think it through during the weekend.

Thanks a lot, everyone.

作者: xuke7167 时间: 2010-4-6 00:59
2010年新入学的MPA，倒是想找LZ询问下Specialty的疑云，特别是所从事方向的职业取向。因为这个圈子在我审计背景出身的周围人眼里另类的可以，实在难找到同行的前辈。ianding(A) hotmail.com,非常感谢！

作者: lunluoren 时间: 2010-4-6 11:08
不知道楼主的Career goal是什么？ST&LT?

to start your own non-profit org. or to focus on nonprofit consulting?

I have kind of similar BG with you though now i have started my own ngo here. I strongly agree with you that the environment/policy/society is quite annoying to ngos especially to those grass roots.
So what do you think you can get from MBA no matter in W or Y, and whether those you get will facilitate your nonprofit career?

作者: summit 时间: 2010-4-6 12:01
non-profit只是对该组织的会计账目而言的。
对个人而言，赚的钱并不少。
很多时候，慈善事业，也是金钱+政治的盛会。欧美，中国，皆如此。

作者: rosemarychina 时间: 2010-4-7 00:36
标题: 个人经历
我几年前也是在耶鲁和另一所名校中徘徊不定，所以我完全理解你的经历。我毕业以来一直到现在在UNESCO（联合国教科文组织）工作。我可以以我的个人经历告诉你，在非营利性组织，耶鲁的名气就如同沃顿在金融界中的名气。个个榜单的排名都是虚的，而且这些东西不属于你；你未来对自己的定位，选择最中意的行业，才是实在的。还有，在世界上所有的大学，耶鲁在世界上的影响力数一数二，宾大根本不能比。

祝贺你在MBA申请中取得的成就！无论你选择哪里，一定不要后悔。当然也希望你能成为我的校友：）

作者: vincentwu821 时间: 2010-4-7 04:36
Wharton

作者: atongmu 时间: 2010-4-7 05:04
用理想主义去做nonprofit会让人感觉现实比想象残酷很多，光有理想很难成功。

我本人也对nonprofit很感兴趣，做了很多研究以后发现charity性质的nonprofit根本么有可持续性，而且效率低下，很难蓬勃发展。慢慢我的理念转变到放弃charity，而走向not for profit（或social responsible business）——也就是说追求的目标是公益性的，但客观上有一个可盈利的商业模式支撑下的公益事业才能生根发芽。比如说印度和孟加拉国的micro finance就是很好的样板。

说到底，不论是nonprofit还是其它行业，最根本的问题就是资源的分配。是分配给穷人还是富人，分配给政府还是百姓，分配给GDP还是环境...而资源的分配归根结底就是资本的分配。这个社会是十分现实的，哪里有高回报资本就往哪里流动。这就决定了把一个公益事业做成盈利事业远比向有钱人讨钱然后施舍有意义的多。

我作为绿色和平组织志愿者好几年了，在哥本哈根会议前参加组织的一个内部会议，向高层建议不要幻想说服企业或政府因为道义责任而减排，而应该致力于完善碳排放的交易制度，一旦把盈利模式确定下来以后，大家都会在经济规律的牵引下减少排放。就像美国当年的酸雨计划最后取得了很好的效果。可惜最后也就停留于组织抗议活动的层面上，对现实的改变十分乏力。

因而，我还是先向金融领域发展作为跳板，希望先把赚钱的游戏玩转以后再去做not for profit成功的可能性更大，也能造福更多的人。

个人认为nonprofit不是从课堂上学来的，而是理想主义的情怀加上现实主义的运作的结合。从这个意义上来讲Wharton能带给你的资源更丰富。

作者: atongmu 时间: 2010-4-7 05:12

别犹豫了，autumn。要做non profit，就去Yale！Wharton没有这种氛围！

-- by 会员 sunjie38 (2010/3/31 21:02:22)

个人认为这个理由十分牵强，如果去了Yale就会发现大多数人还是冲着投行咨询去找工作。

作者: cdo 时间: 2010-4-7 05:37

non-profit只是对该组织的会计账目而言的。
对个人而言，赚的钱并不少。
很多时候，慈善事业，也是金钱+政治的盛会。欧美，中国，皆如此。

-- by 会员 summit (2010/4/6 12:01:07)

yeah, last time heard a very highprofile celebrity in China said that she would devote more of her time to charity/NGO because these causes are best way for her to reach the rich....of course she ttalked about this in private, but I got an idea how these organizations are abused...the CEO of redcross USA made millions of dollars annually...hehe

作者: olivermu 时间: 2010-4-7 11:39

用理想主义去做nonprofit会让人感觉现实比想象残酷很多，光有理想很难成功。

我本人也对nonprofit很感兴趣，做了很多研究以后发现charity性质的nonprofit根本么有可持续性，而且效率低下，很难蓬勃发展。慢慢我的理念转变到放弃charity，而走向not for profit（或social responsible business）——也就是说追求的目标是公益性的，但客观上有一个可盈利的商业模式支撑下的公益事业才能生根发芽。比如说印度和孟加拉国的micro finance就是很好的样板。

说到底，不论是nonprofit还是其它行业，最根本的问题就是资源的分配。是分配给穷人还是富人，分配给政府还是百姓，分配给GDP还是环境...而资源的分配归根结底就是资本的分配。这个社会是十分现实的，哪里有高回报资本就往哪里流动。这就决定了把一个公益事业做成盈利事业远比向有钱人讨钱然后施舍有意义的多。

我作为绿色和平组织志愿者好几年了，在哥本哈根会议前参加组织的一个内部会议，向高层建议不要幻想说服企业或政府因为道义责任而减排，而应该致力于完善碳排放的交易制度，一旦把盈利模式确定下来以后，大家都会在经济规律的牵引下减少排放。就像美国当年的酸雨计划最后取得了很好的效果。可惜最后也就停留于组织抗议活动的层面上，对现实的改变十分乏力。

因而，我还是先向金融领域发展作为跳板，希望先把赚钱的游戏玩转以后再去做not for profit成功的可能性更大，也能造福更多的人。

个人认为nonprofit不是从课堂上学来的，而是理想主义的情怀加上现实主义的运作的结合。从这个意义上来讲Wharton能带给你的资源更丰富。

-- by 会员 atongmu (2010/4/7 5:04:46)

atongmu对公益和慈善有很深刻的认识。很同意你的观点，也和你有相似的体会。在中国，只靠富人们的接济甚至有时不过是噱头式的施舍是没有持续性的，让慈善组织self sufficient才是真正有长远的意义。曾经研究过绿色和平组织的一些模式，觉得用它的很多理念和模式，去经营公益事业才是可行的。
MBA能培养的，更多的是一个人在既定规则下如何更有效率完成工作的能力。和创业一样，nonprofit更多不是从课堂上学来，也不需要去学。需要学的，是真正做成一件事情的能力和思路，比如执行力、整合资源的能力，而不是如何做ppt，presenation或者pitch book。对他们来说，通过MBA积累自身的资源，才是更重要的。

北京的光爱学校，是石清华校长自发组织的收留流浪儿童的学校。开创之初，学校的维持非常困难。很多企业甚至根本不愿意给一个没有知名度的学校捐款，因为，企业的所谓捐赠往往也包含提升公众形象的商业目的。包括罗氏、拜耳这样的MNC，它们和中华慈善总会的合作，出发点也更多是产品促销和商业竞争。这个世界真的是很现实的。

有志于在中国做non-profit的人，会面临着政策法规等一系列超出想象的困难。也需要兼具出世和入世的情怀，不但要理想主义于心，还需要懂得用商业的头脑、手腕去经营。在CD、商学院，或者在今天的中国，有这样能力的人可能很多，但是把它作为理想和事业的人可能很少。

作者: olivermu 时间: 2010-4-7 11:44

我几年前也是在耶鲁和另一所名校中徘徊不定，所以我完全理解你的经历。我毕业以来一直到现在在UNESCO（联合国教科文组织）工作。我可以以我的个人经历告诉你，在非营利性组织，耶鲁的名气就如同沃顿在金融界中的名气。个个榜单的排名都是虚的，而且这些东西不属于你；你未来对自己的定位，选择最中意的行业，才是实在的。还有，在世界上所有的大学，耶鲁在世界上的影响力数一数二，宾大根本不能比。

祝贺你在MBA申请中取得的成就！无论你选择哪里，一定不要后悔。当然也希望你能成为我的校友：）

-- by 会员 rosemarychina (2010/4/7 0:36:28)

问题的关键是，lz是想未来自己做一些有impact的事情，还是追求在non-profit组织的一份体面工作。积累资源是为了自己能够做一些事情，而学校的名望，更多地只是增添自己进入这一领域的分量和砝码。

作者: lunluoren 时间: 2010-4-7 12:13
一个字：Sustainable growth!
尤其在国内!

作者: Wharton2012 时间: 2010-4-7 21:34
LZ决定了不？

作者: Mimi_Beijing 时间: 2010-4-9 15:13
楼主决定了，就是太忙了。没有时间仔细回贴。谢谢大家！这周末好好回。

Wharton.

作者: geniuswang 时间: 2010-4-9 15:25
楼主准备去哪里？

作者: leoxxxxxx 时间: 2010-4-9 16:22
何不mpa？HKS。。。

作者: REgirl07 时间: 2010-4-9 19:04

楼主决定了，就是太忙了。没有时间仔细回贴。谢谢大家！这周末好好回。

Wharton.

-- by 会员 Mimi_Beijing (2010/4/9 15:13:41)

Congrats! You won't regret it!

作者: nipaan 时间: 2010-4-19 18:39
标题: 理由
To LZ

能点几句，最后选择的依据吗？

谢谢。

作者: wanghaichuan 时间: 2010-4-19 23:20
大家的建议这么多，楼主最终能够自己决定，希望最终能够实现目标

作者: teacherkoo 时间: 2010-4-20 14:56
很佩服楼主追求梦想的精神，不过也可以参考一下各校对于去做non-profit的经济上的支持，e.g. S has a loan-forgiveness program which help you pay back your student loan after graduation if you work in non-profit sector. I think Y has something similar to that as well.

作者: mncfjzg 时间: 2010-5-24 20:38
我看了你的帖子，比较欣赏你的经历，我们在做一个教育类的ngo，叫卡特曼计划，希望可以给青少年教育平台提供更多的支持，你的经验和能力应该可以给我们提供很多帮助，现在机构在草创阶段，第一个项目和南方报业集团合作。第一个项目的ppthttp://photo.163.com/leslieyan1202/list/#aid=199326517&m=0&page=1。
非常希望得到你的回复。
ｍｎｃｆｊｚｇ＠ｇｍａｉｌ．ｃｏｍ

作者: legatopan 时间: 2010-10-4 16:06
mark一下，想做NGO的CDers可以看得到，搜藏下的帖子。

作者: DeeGao 时间: 2010-10-7 01:22
mark..

作者: liuxiao45 时间: 2011-8-16 21:47
作为楼主的忠实读者，真心佩服楼主的选择，能在已经有了相当的职位和收入后还毅然决然得追求自己的梦想，希望楼主以后真的能够为NGO在全球的做出卓越贡献！

作者: xueming1984 时间: 2011-8-18 16:57
我跟楼主又一样的梦想，但经历远没有楼主多

作者: voyagew 时间: 2013-4-17 13:02
看了MIMI姐所有的帖子，感谢MIMI姐这么详细的解答和给大家的帮助！

现在也着手开始自己的复习了，向姐姐看齐，一定要充分利用你的宝贵经验！哈哈！

现在应该是在Wharton最忙碌的时候吧？给你加油，有空也回来看看，和大家聊聊你的近况：）

祝好。

作者: 无敌熊猫 时间: 2013-4-17 20:45

voyagew 发表于 2013-4-17 13:02
看了MIMI姐所有的帖子，感谢MIMI姐这么详细的解答和给大家的帮助！

现在也着手开始自己的复习了，向姐姐看 ...

LZ去沃顿了吗

作者: gtym7 时间: 2013-4-18 14:22
先Mark下，以后慢慢看。

作者: xiaoyongnao 时间: 2013-4-18 19:52
像楼主这么样的人国内太少了

作者: voyagew 时间: 2013-4-18 20:00

无敌熊猫发表于 2013-4-17 20:45
LZ去沃顿了吗

呵呵楼主姐姐去沃顿了你可以搜索下她其它帖子应该也会有些帮助

不得不说成功者的品质已经在帖子中体现的淋漓尽致

而MIMI姐的人文关怀和责任感应该也是她当时申请YALE的原因吧

欢迎光临 ChaseDream (https://forum.chasedream.com/)