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标题: [求助]一道把我绕死的PREP逻辑 [打印本页]
作者: jessie1228    时间: 2009-9-22 20:37
标题: [求助]一道把我绕死的PREP逻辑

Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers:  Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five.

 

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine:  Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five.

 

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

 

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five.

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now.

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five.

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over.

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine.-------答案

谁能翻译下解释下啊~~~~~~

牛牛~~~~~~~~~HELP ME~~

作者: wenping0530    时间: 2009-9-22 22:26

Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers:  Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five. (30%的订单是来自35岁以下的杂志subscriber)

 

 

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine:  Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five. (多数的订单来自35岁以下的人）

 

 

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

 

 

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five. (这个最多是猜测，无从考量）

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now. （not related to the argument)

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five. （not true)

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over. （so what!? not helping us at all)

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine (我不太会解释，但是如果仔细读懂题目的话，就很轻松的发现这就是答案）

作者: jessie1228    时间: 2009-9-23 16:24
以下是引用wenping0530在2009/9/22 22:26:00的发言：

Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers:  Thirty percent of all merchandise orders placed by subscribers in response to advertisements in the magazine last year were placed by subscribers under age thirty-five. (30%的订单是来自35岁以下的杂志subscriber)

Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine:  Most of the merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by people under age thirty-five. (多数的订单来自35岁以下的人）

For both of the findings to be accurate, which of the following must be true?

(A) More subscribers to Systems who have never ordered merchandise in response to advertisements in the magazine are age thirty-five or over than are under age thirty-five. (这个最多是猜测，无从考量）

(B) Among subscribers to Systems, the proportion who are under age thirty-five was considerably lower last year than it is now. （not related to the argument)

(C) Most merchandise orders placed in response to advertisements in Systems last year were placed by Systems subscribers over age thirty-five. （not true)

(D) Last year, the average dollar amount of merchandise orders placed was less for subscribers under age thirty-five than for those age thirty-five or over. （so what!? not helping us at all)

(E) Last year many people who placed orders for merchandise in response to advertisements in Systems were not subscribers to the magazine (我不太会解释，但是如果仔细读懂题目的话，就很轻松的发现这就是答案）

谢谢啊非常感谢~~~`

是不是就是说 大多数定单是35岁以下的人定的,但是定杂志的只有30%是35岁以下的,所以有很多的人木有定杂志....

这个真的很绕绕绕绕绕啊....

作者: amumu    时间: 2009-9-23 16:50
是说大多数定了杂志看广告然后下订单的人是35岁以下的，占了总订单数的30%。

所以，大多数下单的人没有定杂志。
作者: gracezz    时间: 2010-4-25 16:16
这题太绕了：
我觉得crack point在这：
Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers-关于S杂志读者的调查-发现读者中回应广告去订货的人中有30%是35以下
Finding of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine-关于S杂志广告商的调查-发现回应广告in response to advertisements来订货的人大部份是35以下。
这说明广告商那35以下的人多，那多出来那部分人就不是subscribers,而可能只是看了，但是没订杂志。
作者: rainbowmanutd    时间: 2010-4-25 20:54
。。同意2L。。另建议lz把答案单独写。。不要放在题目里，这样没法分析拉！
作者: 小伊YSY    时间: 2010-8-1 15:34
嗷,我之前也被这题绕得很晕
作者: 立小夏    时间: 2010-8-1 16:39
刚做完这题 起初确实比较晕。。。。。
作者: agnesliu    时间: 2010-8-1 21:53
第一遍看这题的时候，我还真没分清楚两句的差别。多看几遍才绕回来
作者: vivianxiong    时间: 2010-9-9 15:27
似乎明白鸟。。。
作者: tata9055    时间: 2010-10-30 10:20
刚做完这题。。。。无语了。。。。  第一遍没有发现两行字有什么差别。。。。。。。
作者: superandy007    时间: 2010-10-31 02:47
so freaking confusing. when we are reading,attention to detail is the key
作者: yuerfu    时间: 2010-11-2 23:00
这个题目很简单呀，35%的订单是35岁以下订阅者定的，同时又说绝大部分订单是35岁以下的定的。只有一个可能，那就是统计的POLL不一样呀。唯一的可能就是一些人看了杂志但是没有订杂志，换句话说，就是传阅呀！！！
作者: windmaple    时间: 2010-12-14 11:40
这个解释很清楚

this problem features QUANTITATIVE DATA. that may make you grimace, depending on your mindset about quantitative data, but it shouldn't: all you need to do is look for the discrepancy in the numbers, and then find an answer choice that accounts for the discrepancy. unlike problems that are all words, these problems feature discrepancies that will essentially jump out at you if you examine the numbers.

when you examine the numbers, you must also pay close attention to DIFFERENCES, especially SLIGHT categorical differences, between categories that are being compared. in this problem, the most important difference is between subscribers who order and people who order. (there's also the distinction between random orders and orders in response to ads, but that distinction isn't tested, because both surveys are on the same side of it.)

in this problem:
of the orders placed by _subscribers_ in response to ads, only 30% were from the under-35 crowd.
of the orders placed by _anyone_ in response to ads, over 50% were from the under-35 crowd.
there's the discrepancy.

therefore, you need an answer choice that explains where all the extra orders in the 'anyone' category. this means in the 'anyone category and not in the 'subscribers' category; no more, no less. that's exactly what is described in choice e.
作者: gordonfinance    时间: 2011-1-24 03:59
我觉得要画个韦恩图来做这个题……
作者: lzdlovely    时间: 2011-5-18 14:38
果然绕死呀～
作者: Mandy2010    时间: 2011-6-4 12:30
我觉得是这样：举例比较容易理解。。。假设广告商收到了1000份订单，800份都是35以下的童鞋订的，这是从广告商的survey里得出来的一种情况，再假设订杂志的人力总共有300人下订单，其中有100个下订单的人是35岁以下，200个是35岁以上，这样就能解释了，广告商的1000份订单里，35岁以上的童鞋有200个，剩下还有800个35岁以下的，其中100个是自己花钱定了杂志的，还有700个童鞋是蹭别人杂志看的，所以就能解释E了。。。不知道这个解释合理不。。。
作者: cooperlee01    时间: 2011-7-4 17:45
设订单的所有下单人集合设为O（100%），由第一个调查知道30%的下单人满足条件：subscriber，response to advertisement  and under 35. 由第二个调查知道大多数（假设为80%）下单人满足条件：response to advertisement and under 35。所以有50%下单人不是subscriber的人。
作者: ChaseDreamAnna    时间: 2011-8-24 11:17
解题方法：
ABCD都没有关系，一眼看去E唯一相关

实际理解：
Finding1-30%订阅杂志的是35岁以下
Finding2-大多数(>60%)购买杂志的是35岁以下
-〉购买杂志的人里有很多没有订阅
（但一开始看真的很绕......超级绕......）
作者: caoqin1981    时间: 2011-10-3 18:58
这道绕人的题干是这样的
1 调查杂志订阅者：30%的货单是由35岁以下的订阅者看了S杂志广告下的单
2 调查在杂志上登广告的商家：看了S杂志上的广告下单的大多数人年龄在35岁以下

问支持或者加强

E是说许多人对那些S杂志广告上的货下单的人没有订S杂志

言下之意是不是说，S杂志广告只对年轻人有吸引力，跑偏了，大家讨论讨论吧，为啥是E，我也没绕的太出来
作者: aiming    时间: 2011-11-13 14:59
愚以为题目中有点小问题，说了是“30% of all orders placed by subscribers。。”一开始读的时候觉得是“所有subscriber下的订单中的30%”来自于那些35岁以下的subscriber，但是照答案看来，似乎应该是“所有订单中的30%是来自于那些35岁以下的subscriber”？再细看题目，确实不是说“30% of all orders THAT placed by subscribers”MS有那么些小小的区别……不知道这么理解对不对……不过确实只有E是比较相关的选项……
作者: choyean    时间: 2011-11-13 16:42
E像是逆反命题，就是说少数人看了广告之后会下订单。NOT来测试。
作者: showysimple    时间: 2012-7-19 13:36
打??卡 7.18＋［1-3］
作者: AvandarB    时间: 2012-7-19 14:15
我觉得这么理解，画个数轴。。。。。。我这里不知道怎么画。。。
因为同样都是under 35
subscribers: 30%的人
advertiser: most, most 应该就是50%以上了
所以说，很多advertizer并不是subscriber,thus answer E is correct...
作者: focusgmat    时间: 2012-8-23 09:24
F1:对于杂志订阅读者,３０％的所有订单是３５岁以下的订阅者通过看广告下的订单；
F2:对于杂志中的广告商而言：去年绝大部分订单是由35岁以下的人通过看广告下的订单.

问题:下面那个必须正确?

E. 去年通过看广告下订单的很多人都没有订阅杂志
1.假设去年35岁以下的通过看广告订单总量为Q,无论通过什么方式下单(订杂志看广告下订单和不订杂志看广告照样下订单);通过F2知道35岁以下的绝大部分订单(订阅和非订阅)超过50%;2 F1说所有订阅的订单35岁以下的占了30% 3. 推出35岁以下至少20% 通过看广告下订单的人没有订阅杂志
作者: muri不二家家    时间: 2013-2-7 04:53
我觉得这道题问题在于题目出的特别绕先把你绕死
然后正确选项还是放在E
考场上一看就乱了
其实不难
主要还是没看懂题的事儿
作者: Feelalive    时间: 2013-7-5 12:11
没看懂题，爹被坑了
作者: djmulder    时间: 2013-7-8 16:42
13楼厉害！ 传阅一词用的妙！！
作者: jinlin8823    时间: 2014-7-13 08:38
可算看懂了。 F1：30%的商品都是那些低于35岁以下的订杂志的人买的
                   F2：但是大多数的商品订单都是低于35岁以下看过广告的人买的

所以F1F2之间的问题 在于 都是35岁以下 为什么订杂志的人买的少  但是看过广告的人却买的多 所以 大家推论没有错。35岁以下这帮人 主要靠蹭别人的杂志 看到广告后下订单  所以产生 订杂志的买的少 但是看过广告的却买的多.
作者: InfiniteAlex    时间: 2014-9-11 21:21
其实应该先看findings of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine，然后再看findings of a survey of Systems magazine subscibers.

大致意思是:对杂志广告商的调查表明大部分看了杂志内广告下订单的人是35岁以下的人，然而对订阅者的调查表明只有30%的订阅者是看了杂志内广告后下单的35岁以下的人。换句话说，大部分看了杂志后下单的35岁以下人群的订单只占了订单总数的30%，另外70%的订单不是下单者看了杂志内广告后的。

这题主要难在30%和under age thirty-five这两个数字以及复杂的从句理解上。

作者: iamjasmineshi    时间: 2014-11-21 02:17
InfiniteAlex 发表于 2014-9-11 21:21
其实应该先看findings of a survey of advertisers in Systems magazine，然后再看findings of a survey of ...

这个解释好
作者: 雪奈Yukina    时间: 2015-1-20 03:30
gracezz 发表于 2010-4-25 16:16
这题太绕了：我觉得crack point在这：Finding of a survey of Systems magazine subscribers-关于S杂志读者 ...

感謝！
作者: 雪奈Yukina    时间: 2015-1-20 03:31
from ron:
this problem features QUANTITATIVE DATA. that may make you grimace, depending on your mindset about quantitative data, but it shouldn't: all you need to do is look for the discrepancy in the numbers, and then find an answer choice that accounts for the discrepancy. unlike problems that are all words, these problems feature discrepancies that will essentially jump out at you if you examine the numbers.

when you examine the numbers, you must also pay close attention to DIFFERENCES, especially SLIGHT categorical differences, between categories that are being compared. in this problem, the most important difference is between subscribers who order and people who order. (there's also the distinction between random orders and orders in response to ads, but that distinction isn't tested, because both surveys are on the same side of it.)

in this problem:
of the orders placed by subscribers in response to ads, only 30% were from the under-35 crowd.
of the orders placed by anyone in response to ads, over 50% were from the under-35 crowd.
there's the discrepancy.

therefore, you need an answer choice that explains where all the extra orders in the 'anyone' category came from. this means in the 'anyone' category and not in the 'subscribers' category; no more, no less. that's exactly what is described in choice e.
作者: scomel    时间: 2015-9-25 17:11
这样的解释会不会好理解点？
在订阅报纸的人里面有30%的人是在登广告者那里买东西的，且年龄小于35岁。那么不出意外，更广告者那里的数据应该也应该是30%的人35岁以下，但实质上有over 50%的人是35岁以下，那么为什么？所以就是多出的那些35岁以下的人不是报纸订阅的人。
作者: iiiii    时间: 2016-3-13 18:34
这道题过了这么久还是能把人绕晕
真的很难想到不看杂志的人也会去订广告
作者: 红烧栗子    时间: 2016-8-20 10:46
看了ron的解释，想这个题想了40分钟，妈蛋，太绕了。ron解释得很清晰，也就像他说的这道题并不是考数字，主要是识别数据的差别，嗯他说是靠直觉，根本就不用画表啊搞这么复杂。
in this problem:
of the orders placed by subscribers in response to ads, only 30% were from the under-35 crowd.
of the orders placed by anyone in response to ads, over 50% were from the under-35 crowd.

然后其实就可以得出了有许多anyone并不是subscribers。即使就算anyone里面全部都是subscribers，那也只占到了30%，有许多就不是subscribers。更何况不是这样的情况。

另外ron举了个类比的例子：
let's just use an analogy instead.
* Only 30% of the women in this room are wearing glasses.
but...
* More than half of all the people in this room are wearing glasses.
作者: 桃子下雪    时间: 2017-4-4 12:35
我在曼哈顿论坛上看到一段讲解，说的是用数据的方式理解的。我觉得这个讲解不错，搬来给大家用用。

“this problem features QUANTITATIVE DATA. that may make you grimace, depending on your mindset about quantitative data, but it shouldn't: all you need to do is look for the discrepancy in the numbers, and then find an answer choice that accounts for the discrepancy. unlike problems that are all words, these problems feature discrepancies that will essentially jump out at you if you examine the numbers.

when you examine the numbers, you must also pay close attention to DIFFERENCES, especially SLIGHT categorical differences, between categories that are being compared. in this problem, the most important difference is between subscribers who order and people who order. (there's also the distinction between random orders and orders in response to ads, but that distinction isn't tested, because both surveys are on the same side of it.)

in this problem:
of the orders placed by subscribers in response to ads, only 30% were from the under-35 crowd.
of the orders placed by anyone in response to ads, over 50% were from the under-35 crowd.
there's the discrepancy.

therefore, you need an answer choice that explains where all the extra orders in the 'anyone' category came from. this means in the 'anyone' category and not in the 'subscribers' category; no more, no less. that's exactly what is described in choice e.

bam!”



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